[Rhubarb]

I think that we should forget that the homosexual bashing started...

Just forget it.....

And then all will be peace again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO ONE MENTIONED BAD THINGS SO THAT MEANS THEY DON'T EXIST

HAPPY THOUGHTS HAPPY THOUGHTS I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA

It's the frigging debate forum, guys. Everyone stop making disclaimers and going "okay no more gay stuff... right after I make this post!" If I want to discuss homosexuality, I'll fucking well discuss it. You don't like it, bite me.

Jordan: So your main problem with gays is that they sexually harrass you? Well, you know, you're absolutely right about one thing. They do it to get a rise out of you. They know that you have a problem with them, or at least suspect that you might (which to some amounts to the same thing), so they turn up the gay factor and impose their obviously distasteful gayness on you in the most offensive way possible. I do exactly the same thing to rightwingers who obviously think I'm a worthless scruffy pinko hippie. I turn up my slang levels a notch or two, punctuate everything I say with crude swearing, and make loud and pointed remarks about the oppression of the workers and the conditions inside the Baxter refugee camps. The rightwingers get annoyed, I get amused.

It's a defense mechanism against the condescension. They think the worst of me, so I turn into a parody of my worst self, and make a joke out of it. Except a gay person's controversy is defined by their sexuality, so in order to turn your bad vibes right back on you, they make exaggerrated sexual advances. It's nothing personal. They do it to all straight people. Lesbians do it to me upon occasion. I agree, it's annoying, and if you're the sort to get uptight about unwanted sexual advances then it's going to upset you. But that's why they do it. They don't want to feel bad, so they make you feel bad instead.

[Jordan]

I'm not sure if I'd call it sexual harrassment.

The ass slap happened to me in my teens, so did the drag queen eye wink. Both were on a street at night. Not at my job.

I work in a video store which has a larger than usual gay customer base. I have a lot of regulars and a lot of new faces. (They don't know me all that well and I don't express frustration when they try to get a rise out of me). I have one gay couple (older dudes in their late 40's) who are great. They are not flaming, they don't wear gay on their forehead whatsoever. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I certainly don't have any personal issues with them. Then I have about 4 lesbian couple regulars, who look like dykes but don't act like men. In fact if they were not always with their partner then I would just write them off as ugly women, not dykes.

Then, there are the young flaming queers. One dude is always asking me why I don't have a girlfriend (wink wink nudge nudge..right?) Other ones always give me this hardcore stare down while asking me stupid f'in questions like "what did you do this weekend" with a funny little smirk on their faces. I had one guy, this was the closest I had to feeling sexually harrassed at my work, keep asking me to show him good movies (leave the counter and search the store with him), he would stand close to me and shit and it made me feel really uncomfortable.

Maybe I'm just being parinoid... But From my expierince the most friendly customers are always the gays, especially the young gays, they seem so interested in my business. The older gays are more settle down and act like other customers. But the young ones are very personal and talkative and the body language is all there.

You ever see a gay pride parade? IT's filled with gay men under the age of 30. Gay 40 year olds have gotten over themselves and don't give a shit any more, the younger ones are all like "i'm gay and young, I'm a hero in my community for showing it and I love my boyfriend yay!" Those are the guys that freak me out.

Obviously my video store is not some kind of gay parlor, it's filled with every body. But I've worked here for a year now (part time during school, full time in summer) and I've noticed certain trends in customers.

OFF TOPIC

Other things I've notice - The amount of interacial dating/marriage in Vancouver. NO joke, 1/3 couples is a white dude with some asian chick! Working the service industry really gives you a good feel for the community you live in. And the world in general. Last weekend was the Jazz festival, all the Amerians that have places up here came up for hte weekend. I signed up about 4 people from the states (unusual) to become members of my store. The 4th person I signed up showed me here California license. I said "you're like the 4th American to sign up this weekend, are you here for the festival" She smiled and said "we're not all bad, hahaaha". Wtf? So if I avoided the media, from that experience I could conclude that Americans, some of them, harbor guilt over the war. I've also had super patriotic americans sign up too. One guy kept laughing at our selection, costs, and rental period, he was being loud and obnoxious. "back in Arizona we ge movies for half the cost, twice the selection and 3 times the rental period". "These Canadian prices are for the dogs" What a goof huh? I told him he should go back to Arizona then to rent his movies, he gave me a terrible look and under his breath said "good one store clerk". The store clerk bit hurt, everyone thinks i"m some kind of fuck up for working here, i just know it.

Your idea of it being a defense mechanism is actually a pretty good theory, did you come up with that on your own?

This post has been edited by Jordan: 07 July 2005 - 06:05 AM

[Rhubarb]

I dunno dude, the extent of the harrassment as you've stressed it does sound pretty creepy. But you're making a lot of generalisations, and comments like...

the younger ones are all like "i'm gay and young, I'm a hero in my community for showing it and I love my boyfriend yay!"  Those are the guys that freak me out.

I have about 4 lesbian couple regulars, who look like dykes but don't act like men.  In fact if they were not always with their partner then I would just write them off as ugly women, not dykes.

...kinda says to me that you haven't exactly made a lot of effort to see them as human beings of equal status and you probably aren't going to be well-disposed toward gays no matter what they do. And frankly, what you've described doesn't sound all that awful. Maybe they just fancy you, dude. A lot of young people act that way toward anyone they think is a hottie, hetero or homo. It's annoying, but not uncommon. I mean, I'm not advocating sexual harrassment in any form, but even I wouldn't be bothered if dudes kept "asking me why I don't have a boyfriend" or giving me "this hardcore stare down while asking me stupid f'in questions like "what did you do this weekend" with a funny little smirk on their faces". My conclusion: you just don't like gays and get uncomfortable when they seem to involve you in their sexuality, however indirectly.

I'm not sure if I'd call it sexual harrassment.

What would you call it then?

Your idea of it being a defense mechanism is actually a pretty good theory, did you come up with that on your own?

Bite me.

[Madam Corvax]

One dude is always asking me why I don't have a girlfriend (wink wink nudge nudge..right?) Other ones always give me this hardcore stare down while asking me stupid f'in questions like "what did you do this weekend" with a funny little smirk on their faces.  I had one guy, this was the closest I had to feeling sexually harrassed at my work, keep asking me to show him good movies (leave the counter and search the store with him), he would stand close to me and shit and it made me feel really uncomfortable

Jordan - what you described here is what I imagine the majority of girls feel when they are working in a videostore. Or just walk down the street. Because it happened to me several times, and believe me, it is not less disgusting when it is done by perfectly straight men to a woman.

Don't blame gay people. Blame jerks. Jerks will be jerks irrespective of their sexual orientation.

[Rhubarb]

Bah. Everybody pulls more guys than me.

[Madam Corvax]

Honestly, I'd rather pull no guys at all than pull them that way. Anyway, I would never ever go out with that sort. Their stupidity surpassed even my desperation.

[Rhubarb]

Movies have told me that this is the acceptable way of getting dates.

And aren't you married or something?

This post has been edited by Rhubarb: 07 July 2005 - 08:21 AM

[Madam Corvax]

That was before I got married. And believe me, I WAS desperate back then

But even I coul not go out with a guy who starts conversation when you are just walking down the street and the said guy says "What is such a lovely lady doing all alone here"

Or "Where are you from" (a guy on a bus stop)

Or "Do you come here often" (I believe it is a standard cliche in English for pulling ladies in bars).

I mean, would you? And these guys were mostly slimy types.

[Revan-47]

Firstly nowhere does it specifically classify homosexuality as evil

Secondly, the whole basis of christianity is that we are not born sinners, that we are born pure and have decided to sin. Seriously dude, this is the crux of chrisian theology ... I assume you are joking otherwise you are seriously mislead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wait a minute. the POINT of christianity is that in the garden we sinned(yes we chose to there) and so through reproducing the sin spread and up until Christ we had to sacrifice animals to pay for it. cuz everybody has to pay for their sins. and so christ came and in accepting him we are garunteed to go to heaven.and yur right homosexuality is not considerd evil. but i guess nowadays people have labeled that sexual immorality wich im not supporting so dont get pissed or anything.

[Revan-47]

I give a huge exasperating sigh here and I give up.

I have never called you ignorant.

And my whole point was about you stopping being offensive.

My whole point was about the language you use. LANGUAGE! You know? Words and sentences? But you don't seem to care - you don't see the problem. You don't feel the need to speak in a was so as not to offend people (or write in a proper way, come to think of that)

I have a feeling I have been talking to a wall.

What a waste of time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this whole time ive been saying that using the word "defect" was wrong. and some other things. so i think i have been listening.

[Revan-47]

Slade please don't do this to me.

Who is ganging up on people, me?

And if anyone didn't think how his post would be taken from the very begining it was Revan.

I was trying to engage him in a calm debate about the type language he uses. He did not reply to my point but has taken an offensive stance "you are calling me ignorant and I will report you to the moderator".

The fact is, I do have a problem with the sort of language he uses and I can't just let it go. I put it down to ignorance, so I was just trying to make him see the light .

Take, for instance, his very emotive exp​ression:
"FOR THE LAST TIME IM NOT BASHING HOMOS!!!!!!!!!"

I have checked. The word "homo" itself is often derogatory.

It is like saying:
"Honestly, I have nothing against Negroes"
Plese reconsider, who is in need of admonishing here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok listen, you are right i have been offensive but you have to admit ive taken a pretty bad beating here and got kind of angry. i wasnt going to report you to a moderator, and i didnt accuse you of flaming. you have been completely fair and i understand yur problelm. in the future i will try to be a little more politically correct.

[Rhubarb]

Actually, I am with Slade here. C'mon guys, stop picking on Revan. He said something retarded, he fully admitted it was stupid (which is more than legit gaybashers do), he's being surprisingly apologetic, and doesn't really seem to have had a point. There's no intellectual or moral integrity in chewing him out for it over and over and trying to catch him out over unfortunate choices of words.

[civilian_number_two]

"Hi, wow, you're pretty. You're a stranger; I'm a stranger, and I'll probably never run into you in a setting appropriate to meeting people. This is it, two people on a street. Maybe we have nothing in common; right now all I know is that you are attractive and I am not a creep. Why don't we have a drink and see whether we have anything in common?"

I agree, MC, that meeting people is ridiculous, but you can't fault a guy for being forward. What else is there? You go ahead and fault a guy for being a "player," but even guys who believe in the long-term relationship, who really want to get to know the real you, had to meet you somewhere. And I don't buy this "get to know people at work" shit. That's for folks who want to lose their jobs.

___________

Jordan: word from an older guy: yousa got it bad, man. You could go a long way by just lightening up about fags. For one, they won't piss you off as much. That's a decision YOU get to make. You think 30-somethings in the Pride march are making fools of themselves? Yes, yes, yes: read MAXIM sometime, and see what lengths we straight folk will go to make total idiots of ourselves as well. But, uh ... who gives a shit? I don't attend the Pride parade and watch the guys and gals clowning around. Like you say, it's hard to tell the dykes from other ugly women, so what's in it for me? (Gals, seriously: one hairstyle per head please!)

Some guy slapped your ass when you were a teen ager, and this is the fag story that haunts you to this day? Wheee.

Oh, and the guy from Arizona was an asshole, but you can't fight with customers. Foremost, they can always pretend they're millionaires, even though they're just losers themselves. I mean really? Renting movies when you're on vacation? That's a guy can't afford to do anything else. Also, arguing about prices with clerks is like the "celtic knot tattoo" of generic loserdom. What a fucking retard, and yes, PC crowd, I do think it is a legitimate insult to compare negatively a person of average intelligence with the mentally handicapped. I mean seriously; handicapped or not, these people are stupid right? They're not scoring high on their SATs. So yeah, someone acts stupid, I call him a retard, and I am not looking back.

All that said, Jordan, let's say you were not dealing with the sort of loser intelligent to come back at you for your remark? Let's say he couldn't come up with the droll Oscar Wildean witticism with which he levelled you? What if you had WON that argument? Isn't there a small chance that intentionally fighting with customers will actually get you fired? You can't fight with customers. 1) you can't win; 2) If you win, you're fired.

PS: Total shift of topic, but something Jordan said made me think of this. Anyone out there remotely my age (36)? Have you noticed this? Once you give out the "I don't date young women" vibe, young women, thinking you safe and fatherly, like to make ridiculous passes at you, like constantly, trying to rub your back and sit on your lap and all that? Yes, I am complaining; I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable. Of course, unlike Jordan with his fag stories, I find most young girls attractive. However the fact that it would be ridiculous to date them, and the fact that they know this, makes their maneuvers almost condescending. Am I the only guy here who's going through this, or is this another ludicrous rite of passage nobody ever tells you about? Because frankly, I am starting to think all those losers in their 40s who date girls still in college are not to blame for their actions.

[Hari Seldon]

And to put an end to this forum about god that went the gay way, here are my final words on the subject (of god):

"Such thing doesn't exist".

Gays, on the contrary, do.

[civilian_number_two]

Actually, I am with Slade here. C'mon guys, stop picking on Revan. He said something retarded, he fully admitted it was stupid (which is more than legit gaybashers do), he's being surprisingly apologetic, and doesn't really seem to have had a point. There's no intellectual or moral integrity in chewing him out for it over and over and trying to catch him out over unfortunate choices of words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. It's always more fun to pick on Jordan and MC anyway. They don't apologise!