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War against Iran May have already begun

#826 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:20 AM

I'll respond later today, or tommorrow. I did find this though, which is interesting

http://money.cnn.com...dex.htm?cnn=yes

Here is a quote from the page

"The U.S. will talk to you about governance, about efficiency, about security, about the environment," says Mustafa Bello, head of the Nigerian Investment Promotion Commission, who has visited China seven times. "The Chinese just ask, 'How do we procure this license?'"

Looks like the Americans are not so 'imperialistic' as many make them out to be. China is doing more oil business with Africa than with the US. The US cares about many other factors when making deals, the Chinese are all about the bottom rung. LOL, not to mention poor starving Africa, with all it's oil, is buying fighter jets and million dollar homes for it's leaders through China.
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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:33 AM

“Islam never says anything about killing people not of your faith”

I think I already qoted some lines from the qoran that says otherwise.

“There was plenty of reason to think Saddam didn't have WMDs, mainly the fact that the UN inspectors nor Iraqi defectors could find credible evidence of their existence.”

You guys know they found WMDs right? They found enough chemical weapons to kill some 200,000 people. But it wasn’t the big ‘stockpile’ everybody had hoped for so I guess it didn’t count. Not that it matters, high ranking Iraqi x-military have come out and admitted Saddam had been moving his wmds to Syria.

“Iraqis owe very little credit to the US and we've already spent most of that credit. I would be happy to see Iraq become a South Korea like nation, but not one that is beholden to the US.”

You do realize Iraqi’s love us, don’t you. If your getting your information from CNN or some other libral source, your not getting the whole story. I know a good 60 or so people who were there so you cant pull the fox news card. The problems that are still going on over there are in Baghdad and the Sunni triangle. And even there, many Iraqis support the United States, but you wont see those interviews on the news, I guess those stories don‘t get good ratings.

“His Excellency is the only democratic choice besides American domination and the fact that he's survived all they've done against him and all that Battista did against him really shows that he has some kind of reason to stick around.”

Do you live in Cuba? Maybe you should for a year or so before you go around singing ‘his excellency’s’ praises. Until then, nobody is going to take you seriously.

“If Bush had cooperated with the Iranian president and showed friendliness, maybe reached out to the Iranian people as a reward for the fact that they had elected someone who would be friendly to him, Iran might have moved further left and eventually become a full blown democracy.”

Bush reached out to the Iranian people during his last state of the Union, saying how he wants Iran and the United States the be the closest of friends, and he told them that is was their leaders that were the problem, not the good Iranian people. Or something like that. To lazy to dig out a quote at the moment.

“As soon as a million Americans are displaced by agents of Iraq, as soon as the Taliban has troops occupying parts of our nation, as soon as the government is under the backing and control of Syria, and as soon as several hundred thousand Americans have been killed by an Arabian embargo and bombing campaign against us, then you can talk about being threatened or wronged.”

Since when are you the leading authority on when we should feel threatened enough. Violence is violence, and you cant say its ok for one group to use it for insert-reason-here and not another for the exact same reason. You either advocate it or you don’t. Make up your mind.

“A short play, by J. M. Hoffman…”

If you really think that George Bush is that horrible of a person, you have completely lost touch with reality. Do you know him? Have you ever spoken with him? Do you have any intuitive skills at all?

I have consorted with many different kinds of bad people - drug dealers, rapists, thieves, murderers, skinheads, and probably some other things that I was blessed to not have found out about. And I have been around even more of these kinds of people whilst visiting the above people in prison. These people are what society might call evil. Ok, sure whatever. Regardless of what you call them, these people have a different ‘feel’ to them. They feel darker somehow - not right. Anybody with any intuition at all can tell something is amiss with said individuals. Now, I’m a pretty good judge of character, and I can usually tell when somebody is a little on the evil side.

Here’s where I get to the point:

George Bush is not the evil megalomaniac the socialist party and liberal media would have you believe. While I don’t always agree with his policies, I can honestly say that I believe he is doing what he thinks is right. I don’t believe for a second that he sits around reveling in the deaths of the American people or the destruction of the middle east. That is ridiculous. Now, I will admit, I have not met him personally, but a few of my friends have. And I do believe that all would agree with me on this.

So please stop with the character assassination - you obviously don’t know your murderers from your companionate individuals.

“So because they were once a world power they now deserve to be stepped on by the imperialists? I mean, yeah, they lost, but that dosn't justify genocide.”

I don’t know, why don’t you ask the countries that once fell to the Muslim Empire. I’m sure they didn’t all remain genocide free. rolleyes.gif

“So let me get this straight. The BPP, who served hot breakfasts to poor white children in the inner cities and provided tuberculosis screening and were butchered by the pigs for it, are racist.”

Yep.

“Would you accuse a rape victim of being sexist against males simply because she didn't like being raped?”

… Yep.

“So you're faulting feminists for being pissed at the gender that kept them in servitude so long? This is ridiculous. You're confusing righteous anger with "a raw seething hatred that is nearly unimaginable".”

… … Yep.

Its one thing to want equality. Its another thing to spew hatred.

“Hey, if I read a book and one page says KILL THE UNBELIEVERS (which is never said in the Quran, but just for argument)”

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191-2
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#828 User is offline   Sailor Abbey Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:47 AM

QUOTE (COBNAT @ Feb 15 2006, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tell me, what if you wanted your country to be "ethnicly clean" (ofcourse you would do it in a non-violent way) and understand your peoples history to a point where you know that the ethnic violence in your country wouldnt stop if it isnt ethnicly clean. And ofcourse the people you force of thier land will be compensated and everything, so does that make you a Nazi or Racial Extremist or just some guy who wants to help out his people?


Um… nobody and no country can is ethnically clean. It is impossible to achieve and its silly. All of our ancestors migrated from one area of the world or another. Culture and heritage are living, breathing things - you can’t cultivate it to your liking. Ethnic cleansing is inherently flawed for a multitude of reasons. Diversity is beautiful and enlightening. Your not really helping out your people by displacing them to another country. Many of the people in your country may love it and appreciate it more so than people whose ancestors have been living there for generations. Would you displace these people because of their ‘bloodlines?” The only thing you’d get out of this would be a smaller gene pool. It doesn’t make you a Nazi but it might make you a racial extremist.
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#829 User is offline   Sailor Abbey Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:00 AM

"Hey, Bush fucked up the military and economy..."

He did?

"The problem is that it's ok to be anti Islaim these days since the government encourages it."

rolleyes.gif Show me where they encourage it!

"when you're unwilling to admit that your stereotypes could be wrong and apply them to people"

Maybe you should take your own advice. You’re not exactly coming off as mr. open-minded here.
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#830 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:37 PM

Yes, the American government teaches anti-islam. Don't you read all the propaganda regarding them as evil and barbaric? All the war talk about killing them and razing their cities.

Sorry pal, Islamic people are responsible for anti-islamic sentiment. I think we've all seen enough pictures and heard enough stories to allow some opinions to be cast.

PS- for the 50th time, JM, CHRISTIAN's don't follow the god damned Old Testament. HOLY SHIT. A Chrisitan following mosaic law is like Muslims following it, IT doesn't fucking happen. GOD DAMNIT, when will you understand this, EVEN JEW's don't follow it.

Stop making comparrisons with modern Chrisitans and modern Muslims. The teachings are totally different. Christians don't riot. Christians don't bomb embassies. Christians don't flag burn. You really don't appreciate the difference enough.

QUOTE
And the Vietnamese freedom fighters were one of the least advanced, but they won because they were right and because the US knew what it was doing was wrong.


Nope, this is why they won http://carpenoctem.t...itary/giap.html That man is responsible for the Vietnamese victories.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 February 2006 - 12:48 PM

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#831 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:10 PM

Jordan- I've never made the US out to be imperialistic, mainly because that is not even a word despite what you and Renegade seem to think.

However. the point you're trying to make falls flat. China is imperialist[ic] because they just want to get oil contracts without meddling in the country's affairs? How does that work?

Quote

is buying fighter jets and million dollar homes for it's leaders through China.


While the mid east gets their fighters and million dollar homes from the US.

Abby-

Quote

I think I already qoted some lines from the qoran that says otherwise.


I pointed out how each and every one of your quotes was taken out of context.

Here's a passage I found in the book of Abbycus:

"kill some... people[!]"

You see, clearly you are a violent religion.

Quote

Not that it matters, high ranking Iraqi x-military have come out and admitted Saddam had been moving his wmds to Syria.


You believe anything the US imperialist forces say? Shit you've seen the way these pigs treat their prisoners. They killed several Iraqi generals in captivity in horrible fashion, and if they'd wanted to they likely could have gotten them to say the WMDs were moved to Texas if they'd electrocuted them enough. None of the information the US gets from their political prisoners is to be regarded as truthful because it is obtained by Bush's methods of torture.

Quote

Do you live in Cuba? Maybe you should for a year or so


Wow, fabulous way to take up Renegade's tired little argument. "You have to do something wholly illogical and infeasible in order for your argument to make sense! All statistics and evidence are useless unless you move to Cuba!" Thanks, but that just isn't going to sway anyone.

Quote

Bush reached out to the Iranian people during his last state of the Union, saying how he wants Iran and the United States the be the closest of friends


"Yes, yes, good dogs, soon I will kill your master and so I shall attempt to gain your loyalty until I am the master."

Sorry, I think Iranians can see through his lip service. If he really liked them he wouldnt be itching to invade their nation and kill a few million of them.

Quote

Violence is violence, and you cant say its ok for one group to use it for insert-reason-here and not another for the exact same reason. You either advocate it or you don’t.


There is a choice in the US situation. The choice was whether to let Iraq alone or to invade and certainly kill hundreds of thousands. Bush made the choice. Iraqis have no choice. When there are foreign tanks rolling through your streets you either try to make them go away or you cease to call yourself a man.

Quote

So please stop with the character assassination - you obviously don’t know your murderers from your companionate individuals.


Hey, you can paint a shining halo on him and give him a big golden cross and a smiley face, but the fact is that he's killed ten times more people than Bin Laden or the freedom fighters. Bush gets the crown as king murderer whether he's doing it in some Quixotic quest for "freedom" or whether he actually knows that all his reign is bringing is tears and blood.

Quote

Its one thing to want equality. Its another thing to spew hatred.


The BPP did not spew hatred except against the oppressors. They never make statements against any race and usually focus their wrath on the pigs, who were deserving. You never once responded to the charges that Nixon or Reagan or Bush actually were racist and comitted acts of genocide, yet you continue to cling to the tiny string that ties the BPP's agenda of freedom for all mankind to black supremacism simply because they were black. You're the one thinking like a racist. You're so scared of black people taking the power that's rightfully due to them that you call anyone who demands what's theirs a racist.

Quote

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191-2


I already addressed this, Abby. It's a passage about foreign armies invading ones homeland and even within those two sentences there's significant differences. Sentence one says "kill them wherever you find them" while sentence 2 says kill them if they attack you. if you're going around killing them ANYHOW, wouldn't you kill them regardless of whether they attacked you or not? That should tip anyone off that the passage is out of context.

Quote

He did?


I would call spiking unemployment and a military stretched so thin people are talking about the draft a "fuck up"

Show me where they encourage it!

By constantly keeping the populace in fear and broadcasting nonsense about terrorist (read: Muslim) attacks. The government is trying to keep the populace in a state of fear and anger so that they'll more easily submit to this unjust war.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You’re not exactly coming off as mr. open-minded here.

When you try to convince me that murderers, invaders, torturers and liars are good people of course I'm not about to be open minded. More photos of Bush's little tea party at Abu Ghraib just came out today and I'm too busy hoping the resistance raze that building along with all the imperialists in it to consider your "the BPP were racist and Bush is a good man who only accidentally commits genocide" argument.

Christians don't riot. Christians don't bomb embassies. Christians don't flag burn. You really don't appreciate the difference enough.

While France was under occupation, who was it who kept blowing up bridges and barracks and such? Those Frenchmen must have been Muslims too right? And actually I've burned government emblems along with Christians. I burned my selective service card with some Menonite friends at a protest. And I don't know but I would guess that many people in the LA, Watts, Chicago and Seattle riots were Christians. But obvioussly all those acts were organized by evil Muslim terrorists and you can just ignore them and talk up your Christian master race.

Nope, this is why they won http://carpenoctem.t...itary/giap.html That man is responsible for the Vietnamese victories.

You're right, they were CLEARLY fighting for something that was silly and had no resonance with the people and that noone wanted, but then they got this guy on their side and he used his magical commie powers to make them win. Or maybe it was the terrorists again...

Quote

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#832 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:27 PM

They fought because they believed in their cause. Giap is also a military genious. He wasn't a terrorist. He did not terrorize, he actually fought a real war. You seem to think that everyone that fights a larger power is a freedom fighter. Giap had a sizable army with artillery. It was inferior compared to his enemies, so he fought his war in other ways.

QUOTE
While France was under occupation, who was it who kept blowing up bridges and barracks and such? Those Frenchmen must have been Muslims too right? And actually I've burned government emblems along with Christians. I burned my selective service card with some Menonite friends at a protest. And I don't know but I would guess that many people in the LA, Watts, Chicago and Seattle riots were Christians. But obvioussly all those acts were organized by evil Muslim terrorists and you can just ignore them and talk up your Christian master race.


They were partizans in France, like in Italy and Russia. These people conducted espionage and other cloak'n dagger tactics to thwart facists occupying their land. They are nothing like the terrorists in Palestine. They didn't hit civillians, they hit German officers when they could, and most of their tactics wieghted heavily on passing information to Ally armies from behind enemy lines. They blew up bridges, not embassies. They blew up railway tracks, not hotels. Islamic freedom fighters spread fear. French Partizans did not spread fear, they tried hardest to not make their presence known. They were caught in a middle of a war, not some peace time dispute over divine right to a small strech of land. Islamic groups show boat their accomplishments on the news, it's disgusting.

Hmmm. Christians don't rally together and cause terror in the name of God. They don't riot when Christ is mocked in the media. That is the difference. Ya, people who happen to be CHristian do flock to protests in the states. The WTO, IMF, G8 meetings probably had some Christian protestors. But they were most certainly not waving signs that say "we will behead you for breaking our Chrisitan beliefs". IT was not a 'christian thing'.
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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:31 PM

I pointed out how each and every one of your quotes was taken out of context.

Here's a passage I found in the book of Abbycus:

"kill some... people[!]"


Except that I gave you a complete sentences. I didn’t skip around to make it look like a certain way.

This is what it says. I say again : Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191-2

And regardless of context, you said and I quote “and one page says KILL THE UNBELIEVERS (which is never said in the Quran.” And I kindly pointed out that your statement was incorrect.

QUOTE
Not that it matters, high ranking Iraqi x-military have come out and admitted Saddam had been moving his wmds to Syria.


You believe anything the US imperialist forces say?”


I heard it out of the mouth of an x-Iraqi general.

“Shit you've seen the way these pigs treat their prisoners.”

So, at least we never hooked their fillings up to car batteries when we captured them. So we made em wear underwear on their head. Who fucking cares? That’s a fraternity prank, not torture. How bout the wood chippers Saddam used to throw his prisoners into.

“They killed several Iraqi generals in captivity in horrible fashion,”

Oh really, in what fashion?

“and if they'd wanted to they likely could have gotten them to say the WMDs were moved to Texas if they'd electrocuted them enough.”

I’m not talking about getting information from prisoners, I’m talking about free Iraqi x-military who have come out and acknowledged moving the wmds.

“ Bush's methods of torture.”

rolleyes.gif

"You have to do something wholly illogical and infeasible in order for your argument to make sense!”

No but you at least have to know what your talking about before anybody will take you seriously. Its called 'life experiance' and people usually respect this. Its hard to gain that stuff by sitting at a computer though. You actually have to venture out into the world to get it. Good luck!

"Yes, yes, good dogs, soon I will kill your master and so I shall attempt to gain your loyalty until I am the master."

This doesn’t even warrant a response.

“There is a choice in the US situation. The choice was whether to let Iraq alone or to invade and certainly kill hundreds of thousands. Bush made the choice. Iraqis have no choice. When there are foreign tanks rolling through your streets you either try to make them go away or you cease to call yourself a man.”

All human beings have a choice weather or not to be violent. I say again - you either advocate violence or you don’t. You cant have it both ways. Where do you stand again?

Bush gets the crown as king murderer whether he's doing it in some Quixotic quest for "freedom" or whether he actually knows that all his reign is bringing is tears and blood.

*Abbey shakes head in disgust, having realized she’s been arguing with somebody who has no compassion, grip on reality, and is incredibly close minded.*

Dude. How can you really believe he is that horrible. He’s a person! He has feelings! He has a conscience! He has nightmares and he fears for his children when they are sick or in danger! He cries when he’s in pain and he makes love to his wife just like every other human being. God damn J m what the fuck is your problem? For somebody who pretends to care about the human race, you sure are giving one of them the short end of the stick. Do you really believe this shit or are you just arguing for the sake of it. I mean, good god what the fuck?

“You never once responded to the charges that Nixon or Reagan or Bush actually were racist and committed acts of genocide, yet you continue to cling to the tiny string that ties the BPP's agenda of freedom for all mankind to black supremacism simply because they were black.”

Look, I don’t know enough about the Black Panthers to argue either for or against them. All I’m saying is, you cant have a club based on the colour of your skin and not be racist. Plain and simple.

“You're so scared of black people taking the power that's rightfully due to them that you call anyone who demands what's theirs a racist.”

laugh.gif Oh man, that was a good one. I needed a good laugh! Thanks J m!

“I would call spiking unemployment and a military stretched so thin people are talking about the draft a "fuck up"“

The only people talking about reinstating the draft is the liberal media. I happen to know what’s going on with the military from the inside, I sit in on intel briefs and know more than a few recruiters. They will NEVER reinstate the draft and we are NOT stretched thin. The reason why the US military is as great as it is, is because its an all volunteer military, and we will be keeping it that way. The military is actually asking people to retire early and allowing people to separate voluntarily because they have so many people. This last quarter the US Army completely met their quota by 100%.

"By constantly keeping the populace in fear and broadcasting nonsense about terrorist (read: Muslim) attacks. The government is trying to keep the populace in a state of fear and anger so that they'll more easily submit to this unjust war."

In fact, Bush and the conservative Republicans are the ones being positive, saying that our nation is strong and secure and we are winning the war on terror.

“When you try to convince me that murderers, invaders, torturers and liars are good people of course I'm not about to be open minded.”

Well at least you’ve admitted your intolerance. The next step is to try to get laid... relieve a little tension and maybe smoke some pot or something.
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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:17 PM

QUOTE
So, at least we never hooked their fillings up to car batteries when we captured them. So we made em wear underwear on their head. Who fucking cares? That’s a fraternity prank, not torture. How bout the wood chippers Saddam used to throw his prisoners into.


Well put. Futhermore, it's not in the rules of war. US soldiers are not permitted to take naked photos and sexually harrass POW's. They got in trouble for it. It just doesn't matter what it is, if it's american it's wrong according to many people. If we handed out ultra mild cigarettes to POW's, I'm sure liberals would call that unfair. "give them stronger brands, you fucking nazi" I highly doubt Iraqi, Iranian, or Palestianian governments/ military hiearchies would blink one eye at such treatment, infact they wouldn't care at all.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 February 2006 - 05:32 PM

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:48 PM

If Iraq has stretched the US forces thin, then I'm afraid the US war machine is a giant pussy. Soldiers, epecially ones as well trained and supplied as the US, do not fall apart emotionally from insurgents.

Russian soldiers a testament to what man can endure. Killed by their own comissars for taking a step back, killed by germans, poor equipment, low rations of food, disease, overwhelming odds, destruction of their land, MILLIONS dead. ANd in the end, they still managed to push all the way to Berlin and then after pledge war on Japan. THat, JM , is called being stretched thin. Heck, Candian peacekeepers were under worse conditions during our 1990's hay day of non-stop combat.

It's a true testament to how evil liberals can be with their use of media. They've emasculated their own troops and made them out to be incompitent.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 February 2006 - 05:49 PM

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE ( JM)
"Yes, yes, good dogs, soon I will kill your master and so I shall attempt to gain your loyalty until I am the master."


Seriously JM, that's just surreal. Could you please clarify it so that I can figure out what you're trying to say?

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 15 February 2006 - 05:53 PM

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:25 PM

Oh and by the way,

QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Feb 15 2006, 06:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, Bush fucked up the military and economy




You are wrong again.
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#838 User is offline   Otal Nimrodi Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

I'm no good at this kind of graph. Could you please interpret it for me? It looks like it's saying that he raised the unemployment rate. But I know that would be a bit of a silly thing to link to. A high unemployment rate is a bad thing, right? Maybe I'm wrong about what it shows.

This post has been edited by Otal Nimrodi: 15 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

Want a Tarot reading?

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#839 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE
"Yes, yes, good dogs, soon I will kill your master and so I shall attempt to gain your loyalty until I am the master."


ROFL, that is awesome!

I think that graph says unemployment decreased at the end of the clinton reign, and skyrocketed during the Bush reign. LOL, I think you read it wrong Abbey. It's a graph of unemployment, not employment.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 February 2006 - 06:32 PM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#840 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

"The only people talking about reinstating the draft is the liberal media. I happen to know what’s going on with the military from the inside, I sit in on intel briefs and know more than a few recruiters. They will NEVER reinstate the draft and we are NOT stretched thin. The reason why the US military is as great as it is, is because its an all volunteer military, and we will be keeping it that way. The military is actually asking people to retire early and allowing people to separate voluntarily because they have so many people. This last quarter the US Army completely met their quota by 100%. "

Hey can I butt back in?

The military is asking people to retire early so they won't receive pay during years of less valuable service, when their contribution to a war effort would not be cost-effective. This does NOT mean that the military will not be looking to hire new troops from the masses of young folks out there. When it runs out of volunteers it may consider a draft. In corporate terms, the former strategy of early retirement to save on later benefits packages is called "right-sizing," while the latter could be called "outsourcing." I want to believe you're right, because I wouldn't want to see what would happen to the spirit of the US if a draft were reinstituted, but I didn't used to think that US corporations would move all of their production jobs out of country at the cost of their employees. I really didn't think online and telephone customer support would be moved to India so that one more reasonable job could be taken away from Americans. These are corporate decisions, and the US and its army are corporations. Time will tell what they will do, regardless of the secret talks you've been sitting in on.

The media is not liberal. The media is owned by corporations, and those corporations owe a lot to the government by way of the FCC. The funny thing is you always hear about how liberal the media is. You know where you hear it? On TV talk shows and on those RADIO call-in shows. Sometimes NEWSPAPER COLUMNISTS complain about it, and at other times you hear it in MOVIES. To say there is a "liberal" bias in the media is, I think, to accept a very liberal use if the word. Like, if there's a TV sitcom and it's got a gay guy in it, you could say that TV is "lberal," even if after a decade that gay guy hasn't even once gotten laid.

JM: Jordan is a bit right in one way here, you have to be able to see that: Christians aren't running around claiming persecution and spreading intolerance and hate, condoning murder and terrorism out of xenophobic aggression. They're not blowing shit up and refusing to live alongside people of other faiths.

Jordan: You have to give JM some points as well. SOME Christians actually are doing just that. I know you've seen those "God says to kill fags" protesters around. You heard the way people in the LIBERAL media were talking on Sept 12 2001, about God and converting heathens and how terrorists "hate freedom." Uncommon all that, yes, but so are suicide bombers.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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