[Sailor Abbey]

Jee, I thought you were claiming that the media was biased, not that a lot of folks who go into reporting are liberals. My mistake. I would like to point out that your claim is like saying that the Ford Motor Company is run by Mexicans.

actually I didnt say that - I just copy and pasted so you could get a preview of what the link was about.

at least... im pretty sure i didnt say that.


"So when people who's job it is to know what's going on are voting democrat you think it's just because they were predestined to be democrats? Isn't it possible that by actually observing things (as reporters are wont to do) they came to the conclusion that it would be good to vote against monsters like Bush and Reagan? (who actually ranks several Americans among his list of victims)"

Maybe they are just pro-choice. Isnt that possible.

I believe the media has an agenda, which is to put the democratic party in power. I have come to this conclusion based on my observations and research. I am not going around saying its FACT. You cant really prove something like that, and it wouldn’t be fair because I’m biased. You don’t hear me saying Muslims are psychos or calling Stalin the devil. Why? Because everybody’s opinion is based on limited information and past experiences. Including yours. Nobody has the whole story, unless you were there and experienced it from both sides of the fence, which is why you don’t see me slinging insults at people I disagree with, and generally acting like an idiot.

“So what you're saying is that you're happy to debate and understand your opponent's perspective as long as they're on the republicrat side or perhaps further to the right.”

No. What I’m saying is that I would like to learn more about where you and your peeps are coming from, but its difficult to look at somebody (namely you) in a scholarly light when your spouting of opinions like they're fact, calling people horrible names, and acting like nobody else’s point of view could POSSIBLY be even REMOTELY right.

I am open to learning, in fact I live for it, but its difficult to hear what your teacher is saying when he has his head tightly lodged up his ass.

[Slade]

Abbey - Kindly refrain from name calling in the future, or I'll have to get the modstick out. But in regards to recruitment, the armed forces serve the country, but only as the present administration sees fit. The "country" doesn't give the orders, though if we're lucky, at least our representative government agrees with what the executive branch is doing, so it's closer to that comparison. And it seemed like you were trying to correlate the bias in the media to inherent bias of reporters.

JM - She really was just pointing out a passage where it says what you said it didn't say, not trying to make any assumptions off of it.

Another day, another wave of puppies die as a result of angry debate clubbing... *sigh*

And those damned quotes still break all the time. I think there might be a limit as to how many are displayed, or maybe in regards to the length... I'll ask ChefElf about that later...

[Sailor Abbey]

Abbey - Kindly refrain from name calling in the future, or I'll have to get the modstick out.

I know. I felt bad after I said it. Sorry.

The "country" doesn't give the orders, though if we're lucky, at least our representative government agrees with what the executive branch is doing

Thats true. But nobody joins the army to serve George Bush. They join the military to serve and protect thier country... and to get money for collage.

[Otal Nimrodi]

Well, if you get killed in the name of your country, and if you get killed in the name of George Bush, aren't you dead either way?

Oh, yeah, and the word is college, not collage. Sorry, one of my pet peeves.

[Sailor Abbey]

Oh, yeah, and the word is college, not collage. Sorry, one of my pet peeves.

I caught that after I wrote it and proceeded to feel stupid. But thanks for rubbing it in.

Well, if you get killed in the name of your country, and if you get killed in the name of George Bush, aren't you dead either way?

Yes.

[Otal Nimrodi]

I caught that after I wrote it and proceeded to feel stupid. But thanks for rubbing it in.

How was I to know that you'd caught it? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

[Sailor Abbey]

Better you point it out then chance me writing it again and again and again.


... and again

[Jordan]

Hmm, pointing out spelling errors on forums is a bit annoying. I probably average about 5 per post. I could use a spell checker but some times I can't be bothered too.

[Slade]

If I hadn't been able to put my linguistic OCD on hold through years of Interwebbing, I'd go crazy in one day when certain people post. (Like our resident Godzilla Poster. )

[J m HofMarN]

Quote

I’m not talking about context or interpretation. I’m just point out your grammatical error.

No, you're trying to make it look like the Quran simply says "You should go out and kill anyone who isn't of your religion" and that is not true. Here, let me show you why:

"If Abbey is discovered to have killed and raped several fluffy animals, even shall ye kill Abbey."

Now, I did TECHNICLY just say "kill Abbey" but it's being taken out of context and without it's context it has the meaning that it appears to have. When you take the final two words of that sentence and attribute it to me it looks like I'm promoting violence against you, but when you read it in context it's a CONDITIONAL sentence. Here's another example:

"As soon as a reliable fusion reactor has been adapted to space flight we can easily send men to Pluto"

You could easily use the last part of that sentence in a misleading fashion, and that's precisely what you're doing with your Quranic passages. The Quran never does say "kill the unbelievers" it says "kill disbelievers IF..." There's a difference.

Quote

To which I again reply: So, at least we never hooked their fillings up to car batteries when we captured them. So we made em wear underwear on their head. Who fucking cares? That’s a fraternity prank, not torture. How bout the wood chippers Saddam used to throw his prisoners into.

"It's true that I did beat a few people to death and torture hundreds your honor, and in some situations that might make me a murderer and torturer, but I wish to point out that umm, you know... This one time I heard Saddam Hussein hooked someones fillings to a battery so it's ok! The defense rests."

Quote

Oh here we go… Don’t even start comparing Auschwitz to Guantanamo bay. There IS no comparison.

Really? I can think of one right off the bat- the international community thinks/thought both need/ed to be shut down.

Quote

It would help your argument greatly.

Why is it that to say Cuba is good I have to go there, but to say, "Noone would ever want to live in Cuba" Renegade and you don't have to do anything?

Quote

You’re making stuff up again. Give me a valid comparison that’s based on fact and I’ll try to answer your question to the best of my ability.

Ok, valid comparison huh? Bush can order bombing raids day and night over all of Iraq but he's never A been to Iraq or B been bombed.

The US keeps up a genocidal, cruel, inhumane and internationally condemned and illegal embargo against Cuba, and yet no US leader has had to suffer the privations they gladly inflict on the courageous people of Cuba.

Reagan was happy to supply arms and training to the Contras and Augusto Pinochet to overthrow 2 democratic governments and torture thousands, yet he never had to endure such torment and death himself or even see it, although it comes as some consolation to me that his last words were probably "Where am I? Are you the nurse that's supposed to change my diaper?" I'll always remember the day justice finally caught up with that sick piece of trash. I was protesting the war in the rain in DC and a reporter came by to tell us what had just happened and ask what we thought. I just quoted Malcolm X and said "Chickens coming home to roost."

Quote

I don’t know a whole lot about those other folks you mentioned

Read up on them or check out a movie, I know there are at least 3 about Dr. Guevara and there's one about Patrice Lumumba but the names of the CIA agents are censored to protect them from any in this country with the guts to do justice for the man they had killed.

Quote

I dont consider Hitler or Bin Laden to be monsters either

I'll agree on Bin Laden not being a monster, but I don't think I could ever defend Hitler unless there's an awful lot I don't know about the guy. It's cool that you've got an open mind about things but it's easy to be open minded about the past. In the present though it's hard to get anything done unless you know who's good and who's not, and I definately keep Bush and his kind on the not good side.

Quote

Well his excellencey probably doesnt need your defending him either, but you still do it.

Really? There's a veritable chorus of idiots in this nation who want to see Cuba become a US territory again. In Miami Cuban terrorists walk the streets freely and plot bombings or whatever else they're up to. I hope you've heard of the Padillo Carilla case. The man was working for the CIA when he blew up a jet carrying Cuban olympians. And the US refuses to extradite this man to any nation where he would face justice or to try him. Cuba and it's leader need all the support they can get in the US so that the embargo and aggression and terrorism can be ended.

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Mostly I just don’t care.

Afraid to look into it? Think it might jar that happy go lucky freedom land view you have of the US to know that thousands of good men are in prison or on death row just for demanding their rights as human beings under the banner of the BPP? You'll take up the defense of Bush but people who have noone to speak for them, no secret services to defend them, who are left to rot by the very man you defend, you "just don't care" about them. Compassionate conservative indeed.

Quote

Isnt it nice to live in a country where you can just protest anything you want without fear of being shot in the street. Good for you! Way to exercise your rights!

BAH BAH BAH BULLLSHIT. You've never marched in your life. At one of the recent rallies the cops tried to split the march in two, making a baracade between us. I was in the vanguard and the cops had tried to cordon us off and surround us so we had to charge their lines once or twice and link arms until we could pull them apart, keeping close together so they couldnt drag any of us off and make arrests. And that's just personal experience. None of the people I run with have ever been arrested, mainly because we know what we're doing.

When I go to a protest of course I'm half afraid, but I use it productively. You leave your id and any drugs or knives behind incase they search you and you use a sturdy stick to hold your sign incase you need to fight back, and you don't wear anything like a necklace or a backback that a cop can grab on to.

And if you think that's the worst of it why not check out Kent State or the Chicago pig attacks or what your great Ronald Reagan had the national guard do to some protesters when he was governor of California? Or do you not care?

We server our country, not our president. Thanks for the insult though! (p.s. I had a free ride to collage but still chose to serve my country you fucking prick) (P.P.S I hate to resort to name calling but that last thing about boys and girls dumb or poor enough really hurt)

My appologies. Misguided sandwiches. And what the military has done in Vietnam, Iraq, etc, that does not serve the country in anyway. Those wars served Mcdonnel Douglass, Boeing, Dow Chemical, Richard Nixon and George Bush. That's it.

From what I understand, the Iranian people (especially the youth) love America. Its not too far out of the question that they would support him. Besides, we wont put troops on the ground. We would just hit the nuclear facilities. They probably wouldn’t hate us too bad.

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh man, where does your mind start and the propaganda stop? Do you actually believe that??? Yeah, Iranians will welcome Bush as a great liberator. Just like Iraqis did.

Edit: Play nice. Stop killing the kittens with insults.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

This post has been edited by Slade: 17 February 2006 - 01:03 AM

[Slade]

JM: You're waaaaaaaaaaay out of line, and now you're defending claims that haven't even been made (like Abbey pointing that passage out in the Quran and then going nowhere with it). You're just as bad as Renegade or Jordan, except you're replacing "pussy liberals chillax lol" with "facist pigs TESTIFY!"

I can't endorse joining the military because there's no way I'd ever trust some mysterious order from somewhere up in the chain of command that supposedly always knows what it's doing (and the people giving orders are humans, no less!), but it's absurd, ignorant, and offensive to say something like "every US soldier is stupid." My best friend is in the military. People don't think "I'm going to join the army to kill me some towelheads!" They do it to protect and serve the country, and they put their lives on the line so we don't have to. Granted, there are some very shitty people in power right now who enjoy taking advantage of that mindset, but that's no reason to spout off like that.

You've all got about fifteen seconds to cool down before I put you in the timeout box and just close this thread for it getting so obscenely out of hand.

[Spoon Poetic]

Do you even know any Iraqis? Iranians? Pakistanis? Indians, even? A freaking Canadian?

You, too, JM, are a bigot.

You've made just as many (and in some cases, more) assumptions and generalizations about people as everyone else on these forums. You assume that every single person from every middle eastern nation, hates America. That they all love Saddam etc. You assume that every single US soldier is either dumb, poor, or brainwashed. I cannot believe you would directly, purposely insult someone like you just did Abbey. You assume that every American politician is evil, and that everyone that doesn't agree with you is almost just as bad. You assume that all Cubans love and adore Castro.

You assume that any information that doesn't support your views is propaganda, when many times you're just buying into the propaganda from the other side. Someone can present you with cold, hard facts and you'll just brush it off by claiming that someone evil like Mother Theresa must have made it up, or that it's not important or relevant at all because Hitler was bad.

Guess what? I know people from all over. People that came here to America very recently, to escape the cruelty of the government and the horrible laws imposed on them by government and religion. They love America, no one they know hates America. My cousin just came back from over there (a soldier, and he is none of dumb, poor, or brainwashed, thank-you-very-much), and he dealt with civilians every day. They loved seeing the American soldiers there. It gave them hope that maybe someday they will be able to escape the tyranny of their oppressors. Also, many of the men that are fighting against us are doing so because cruel things would be done to them and their familes if they don't. I'm not trying to justify the war, as I don't agree with it in the least either, but I am sick of your extremist bigotry. Also, most Cubans (except the ones that get something like wealth or power from Castro) hate Castro, and escape Cuba every day to come to the states. One of my close friends was over there just a few months ago, spent quite a while there, learned much - as well as the Cuban family I know.

Saddam did not have one or two accounts of torture. Anyone with half a brain, even those that support him, know that he does torture like breakfast. Yet you believe he is this wonderful, innocent person?

And what the hell? "People wanted them shut down!" That's not a ucking comparison! "You're both holding french fries" does not make you and a Happy Meal similar! "You blow it" does not make a dandelion and a dick the same thing!

And how is cursing and then proceeding to brag about how you oh-so-bravely walked around with a sign a good argument for someone pointing out that you do take advantage of American rights, being that you CAN openly protest something about the country/government/even president that you don't like without getting tortured or shot for it? I don't like Bush. <--That would have gotten me killed in several other countries. Oh, but those countries aren't eeeeeeevil America, so that's wonderful for them to be able to do that.

There is so much more I could say, but I'm going to leave off here, as I know you're a stubborn spork (look Slade, it's pre-modded for your convenience) and nothing I say will make you any less ignorant. But I had to rant.

[Jordan]

Whatever spoon, you're just as bad. Both you and JM have been dropping the words bigot along side racist and ignorant. The words have lost all meaning to me when I read your comments.

I think when people toss around the words Nazi and Hitler, they do the holocaust victims a great dis-service. http://www.usc.edu/s...ls/college/vhi/

[Sailor Abbey]

"You blow it" does not make a dandelion and a dick the same thing!

"No, you're trying to make it look like the Quran simply says "You should go out and kill anyone who isn't of your religion" and that is not true."

No I’m really not. Look, I don’t care if the Quran says kill Sailor Abbey or never kill anybody ever and violence is bad. I really don’t care either way. It doesn’t apply to me and its not my religion, I have never claimed to understand Islam or care. I really was just pointing out a literary error on your part. There’s no need to believe other wise. Let it go.

"It's true that I did beat a few people to death and torture hundreds your honor, and in some situations that might make me a murderer and torturer, but I wish to point out that umm, you know... This one time I heard Saddam Hussein hooked someones fillings to a battery so it's ok! The defense rests"

Sorry, but it dosnt hurt my feelings when an enemy pow ‘accidentally’ dies. I hate to be the bad guy here but I just don’t fucking care. I’d rather be beaten to death or shot in the face or have menstrual blood smeared all over me than do what the Iraqis did to us in desert storm, or what they did to their own prisoners.

"Really? I can think of one right off the bat- the international community thinks/thought both need/ed to be shut down."

That was the crappiest comparison you could have possibly come up with, and yet it really might be the only one that you could use.

"Why is it that to say Cuba is good I have to go there, but to say, "Noone would ever want to live in Cuba" Renegade and you don't have to do anything?"

Because ‘no one would ever want to live in cuba’ is the general consensus and is an opinion based on well known fact and evidenced by hundreds of people who risk a drowning and shark attack to flee from it. If you want to say stuff that appears to be ridiculous, such as Cuba is totally awesome and everybody loves it there - you’re the one whose going to have to work the hardest to support your claim, or nobody will take you seriously. I mentioned this before, its called life experience, and it really helps you out when it comes to arguing a point. Sure you don’t HAVE to go. But then, no body has to take you seriously either. J m, if you told me, ‘you know what Abbey, I lived in Cuba for 3 years,’ I would automatically concede my argument and officially say ‘well, I’v never even been there so you are probably right.” Not only that, I would have to reevaluate the way I view communism and Castro. Experience counts for something, and in this case it would count for a lot.

"Bush can order bombing raids day and night over all of Iraq but he's never A been to Iraq or B been bombed."

Well, he’s been there since then. He went over there that first thanksgiving and worked in the dining hall putting food on our soldiers plates. What a MONSTER.

"The US keeps up a genocidal, cruel, inhumane and internationally condemned and illegal embargo against Cuba, and yet no US leader has had to suffer the privations they gladly inflict on the courageous people of Cuba."

I thought you said Cuba was in good shape?

"Afraid to look into it?"

Nope. Just don’t care.

"Think it might jar that happy go lucky freedom land view you have of the US to know that thousands of good men are in prison or on death row just for demanding their rights as human beings under the banner of the BPP? "

Nope. I’m not losing any sleep over it.

"just don't care" about them. Compassionate conservative indeed."

Oh wait - I NEVER said I was compassionate! And if I did, it was because I hadn’t had enough caffeine yet. Sorry, you must have mistaken me for someone else.

"BAH BAH BAH BULLLSHIT. You've never marched in your life."

Actually yes I have. I have protested abortion in DC and marched for gay rights. Thanks for making another ridiculous assumption though.


"And if you think that's the worst of it why not check out Kent State or the Chicago pig attacks or what your great Ronald Reagan had the national guard do to some protesters when he was governor of California? Or do you not care?"

No I know about that stuff and that was pretty fucked up. But I’m still not losing sleep over it.

I cannot believe you would directly, purposely insult someone like you just did Abbey.

Did I miss something? Other than the insults I have already addressed?

[Jordan]

Spoon once threatened to victimize me. But she is shocked that abbey may have insulted some one. LOL, shocked- because the two go way back.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 17 February 2006 - 10:10 AM