[Jordan]

The US only did what every other country wanted to do. Become number one. Yes, yes, yes, the US commits evils. YAWN. My own mother commits evils. I think the US takes care of number one first. The American is the most important thing on the planet to the US. Canada rides her coat tails since we are irrelevant in the world, so I don't complain.

Most of the 'evils' the US commited in the past 50 years have been attempts to thwart communism and dictatorships. They fucked up a bunch and made gains in other areas. Of course the US hates communists, communits hate Americans. My chinese friend, whom spend many years in a Chinese school system, says they teach kids how evil the west is and show them all the problems the west has with racisim, drugs, and crime - this is all linked to western democracy.

Russia has been run by stupid gits for over 2 centuries. Threatning to nuke the US. THey tried to spread communism into afganistan, etc.. Look how shitty communist Russia was and still is, the country still sucks even though they are not reds any more. (well I think they are, but they claim otherwise)

These are the people that the US is against. Then there is Cuba. Nationalizing the oil plants pissed off the states, and so it should have. Cuba then got a helping hand from Russia. US now against Cuba. It's a sad tale. I feel sorry for Cuba but at the same time understand that stealing oil plants, plants that the US built and ran, is just grounds for war. Heck, Kuwait was slant drilling on Iraq, Iraq attacked them.

But any ways, the US ain't that bad. The army does not walk around with AK's, the US is friendly to immigrants, it's got more PC pandering BS than any other nation, it gives out the most AID, welfare, pension plans, etc...

Sure it's spilled it's fair share of blood. But I don't think I would want any other world power, save the UK, to take it's place. China, Russia, etc...

This post has been edited by Jordan: 01 February 2006 - 08:20 AM

[Sailor Abbey]

Well America is pretty bad...

Really? I don't think so. I like America

I also like the United States of America.

Don't Canadians get pissed off when people call the US 'America' since technically Canada a part of North America... I think I heard that somewhere.

I don't get the whole flag thing anyway, one two civilisations in the world that I know of fly their flag as much as Americans do now. Can someone please explain why?

People fly the American flag because they are proud of freedom, and proud of all the men and women who died for them to have that freedom, since the American Revolution or whatever. A nation's flag is usually meaningful to its people... even those stupid baseball pendants are meaningful to people. I don't think theres anything wrong with that.

[Renegade]

Well America is pretty bad...

So is everyone else..

You can't declare your opinion

Well Buddha himself regarded himself as a teacher rather than a "messenger of god" so I'd say my opinion isn't as outrageous as you make it out to be...

[Dr Lecter]

People fly the American flag because they are proud of freedom

Freedom? As in you have the freedom to be arrested in your home, put in prison after no trial and locked away for a crime with no evidence? That's not what I would call freedom, but then again I don't fly the American flag.

[Deepsycher]

Well I do not think all the people are bad, just some of the leaders who run it.

Talking of freedom, how can it be free when laws invade that freedom to generate a classified form of freedom" for the privileged? Also to consider that there is a leader, I see people get sued easily, and land wrongfully gets taken away legally. I suppose that maybe right for a tightly packed businesses society. I notice similar happening slowly in other places but "Nobody is really free" are they?

Certainly "America was bad to the natives" for taking over their land.
But in this case, what is America looked upon by, the land, the population, the leader’s altogether, or the actions of the country?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 01 February 2006 - 02:12 PM

[Sailor Abbey]

Freedom? As in you have the freedom to be arrested in your home, put in prison after no trial and locked away for a crime with no evidence? That's not what I would call freedom, but then again I don't fly the American flag.

When did that happen?

Actually, I was talking more about freedoms like:

Being able to talk shit about your government leaders without having to worry about being executed in the street

Being able to own land, run for office, take advantage of multitudes of government programs, regardless of your religion, nationality, or how stupid you are.

how bout the freedom to protest things you dont think are fair - without the government being able to just come in and kill you cause they don't like it.

You know... stuff like that.

How bout the freedom to practice whatever religion you want. Thats a pretty good one. Right?

Well I do not think all the people are bad, just some of the leaders who run it.

Talking of freedom, how can it be free when laws invade that freedom to generate a classified form of freedom" for the privileged? Also to consider that there is a leader, I see people get sued easily, and land wrongfully gets taken away legally. I suppose that maybe right for a tightly packed businesses society. "Nobody is really free" are they?

Certainly "America was bad to the natives" for taking over their land.
But in this case, what is America looked upon by, the land, the population, the leader’s altogether, or the actions of the country?

I would venture to say that all governments and legal systems are flawed. Its a constant struggle to try and improve them, and it takes time.

What government is 100% awesome? What country totally has thier shit together? We're all human, and we all have flaws. Our systems of government are going to have flaws no matter what. Until artificial intelligence takes over one day - then maybe the world will be perfect.

[Deepsycher]

So when people get prosecuted over talking about governments is it because leaders have something to hide, so they do not want people to think up to a level of knowing if that was holding the population together for their benefit?

I know nobody is perfect, but I am curious to find out the aim of the flaw. I am thinking about a government that works together, not against each other to try to deliver effective solutions to help solve problems.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 01 February 2006 - 02:25 PM

[ion eon]

Freedom is a loose term thrown about by the government to gain the people's trust and respect. We are not free in America, we are just more free than most people. Freedom is where you have the opportunity to do whatever you want and not be punished for your standings or practices.

[Sailor Abbey]

Freedom is where you have the opportunity to do whatever you want and not be punished for your standings or practices.

I dont think such a place exists.

[ion eon]

I dont think such a place exists.

no, but it should, why even bother meddling with what other people believe, who gives a damn

Edit: Random syntax fixing!

Cheers,
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

This post has been edited by Slade: 01 February 2006 - 08:30 PM

[Sailor Abbey]

Maybe because we all have to live and interact with each other. Humans seem to require some semblance of order to function properly. We need rules.

[ion eon]

Rules are there because people are not taught order. Self-control leads to self-preservation

[Sailor Abbey]

Rules are there because people are not taught order. Self-control leads to self-preservation

order is nothing more than rules in action.

[ion eon]

Yes but order is unspoken and self-determined not forced. "Rules" cause frustration and build up to breaking them.

[Sailor Abbey]

Yes but order is unspoken and self-determined not forced. "Rules" cause frustration and build up to breaking them.

1 + 1 = 2

How does that lead to frustration and build up to breaking it?

Now... human rule/law is inherently flawed as it is of man. These do not always seek to create order. Many man made rules/law are stupid and can therefor be extremely frustrating. But yet we still NEED order.

If one man lives in isolation - he only need obey the 'laws' of nature. If multiple humans live together - they must create laws to live in harmony. When they start out - thier laws will be flawed. If they have good leadership, the laws can evolve and eventually work out pretty well. If idiots are left in charge, the laws will remain stupid and do more harm than good. When the society falls apart, new laws will be created and the whole process will start again.