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Storm has to counter more reasons... reason 21-30

#31 User is offline   Deleted Scene Icon

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 06:57 PM

QUOTE (Storm)
I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm going to take a hiatus from countering Chef's reasons for a while (or possibly forever).  I have come to realize that there is no point in arguing with Chef and the only thing that matters to me is that I liked the movie.  There is no sense in wasting energy trying to convince other people to like it.


No one should ever try and convince another person that their personal preference is right, wrong, good or bad unless that preference can cause harm in some manner to said person. Some people liked ROTS and some people didn't, there's nothing wrong with either opinion. You trying to convince people that the PT's weren't as flawed was faulty from the start because the truth is, the PT's are flawed in so many ways, and not just in nitpicks, but in some major continuity plot points. ex:

QUOTE (A New Hope)
LUKE: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.

BEN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.


And a little bit later...

QUOTE (A New Hope)
BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.


If you've seen the PT's, then you know this story Obi-Wan told Luke is now null and void because of GL's revisions. Unless I'm mistaken, Chef never nitpicked this shit; he focused on small things.

If you love the PT's, that's fine, but you shouldn't tell those who see major flaws in them that there aren't any. That stance in and of itself is flawed if you've ever seen the OT. I will defend the brilliance of ANH and ESB, but I damn sure acknowledge the mistakes in them. Example:

QUOTE (A New Hope)
TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us.
I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council
permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept
away.

TAGGE: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control
without the bureaucracy?


The Emperor was not some Sith Lord whose name spread fear throughout the galaxy. Hell, he wasn't even a force-user as the following passage tells us:

QUOTE (A New Hope)
VADER: He is here...

TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so?

VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the
presence of my old master.

TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now.

VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force.

TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.


And then in ESB and ROTJ, we not only get an Emperor who's in command of the Empire, but he's an evil sith lord to boot. I love ANH and ESB, but those are inconsistencies and I have no problem saying so and while it doesn't diminish my love of the films, I would also never defend them because I know that mistakes were made.

I never got involved in these "counter" threads because I thought they were dumb to begin with. Nitpicks are funny observations but they're not what cause me to dislike a film. Lack of continuity, transitions, cohesion, character development, logic, explanations, etc. - these are the things the PT's contain that piss me off. Forget nitpicks, I'm sure there are many of us here who could rip the PT's a new asshole when it comes to the real issues, but if there are those who love the PT's, live and let live I say. Who am I to tell them otherwise?
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#32 User is offline   superrepus Icon

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 01:33 PM

Well said DS.
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Posted 26 June 2005 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Storm @ Jun 24 2005, 06:43 PM)
I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm going to take a hiatus from countering Chef's reasons for a while (or possibly forever).  I have come to realize that there is no point in arguing with Chef and the only thing that matters to me is that I liked the movie.  There is no sense in wasting energy trying to convince other people to like it.


C'mon! You have to continue!
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#34 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 21 2005, 12:47 PM)
Why does Yoda says to Anakin that he musn't mourn dead people when in TPM they were mourning Qui-Gon?

Cause Qui-Gon's more important than some dork's stupid girlfriend. tongue.gif
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If you will it, it is no dream.
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#35 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 07:36 PM

But Natalie Portman is hot!
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#36 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Storm @ Jun 24 2005, 05:43 PM)
I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm going to take a hiatus from countering Chef's reasons for a while (or possibly forever).  I have come to realize that there is no point in arguing with Chef and the only thing that matters to me is that I liked the movie.  There is no sense in wasting energy trying to convince other people to like it.


if people like you don't come along and try to argue the points, it will just be a bunch of us agreeing with each other...

your counter arguments to the nitpicks, makes them more worth while in a way...

you just have to expect that i will counter your counters with my counter-counters.
for the same reason you feel the need to counter chefys...

you see something you disagree with...

either way, i hope you stick around. smile.gif
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#37 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 08:35 PM

I agree. You`re doing what I want to do, but don`t have the time to.
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Posted 27 June 2005 - 05:45 AM

So we need a new Storm! (and I was really hoping we could had converted him to dislike the movie at the end. Feel the power of the Dark Side!)
What about you, Lord Melkor - Devil's advocate-?
The reasons 31-40 are waiting your opinions.
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#39 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 03:31 PM

I think I'm doing this for the sake of fun, but I'm going to take Storm's job as the counterer:
(Damn this is hard!)

Reason #26
Anakin's Hissy Fit:

I think Anakin is still accepted in the council because they're running out of members. As you can see, some Jedi are holograms and they are in other planets and a lot of Jedis have died during the war. (Because of General Grievous cuz he rocks). So the Jedi needed more members and so they pick the ''Chosen One'' to be a member of the council no matter his attitude.

Reason #27
The Jedi Are Idiots:

The Jedi gave Ani the task of looking out for Plapy because Anakin is Palp's best friend. And they Jedi allow him to use the black robes because.... I don't know it was then fashion on those days.

Reason #28
Wookiee Relations

I agree that the line was fucking stupid but I have to counter this for the sake of fun. That line was only a justification for sending Yoda to Kashyyk instead of some guy like Mace Windu.

Reason #29
The Jedi Code

It's bee scientifically proved that Lucas gives a DAMN about the EU. Maybe Lucas invented a code of his own or maybe the Jedi were tired of having a fuckin' paragraph as the code.

Reason #30
The Prophecy

Yoda says the prophecy could have been misread because Jedi think that balance means that the living Force will be in peace and that everybody will be happy, not that they will be two Jedi and two Sith. Mace Windu just nods because he was thinking about it.

Reason #31
The Stupid Dumb Jedi Idiots

As I said before the Jedi think balance means happiness not equality of Jedi and Sith. And I agree that Jedi are idiots.

Now it's time for Barend to counter me!

This post has been edited by SithAvenger: 27 June 2005 - 03:32 PM

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 04:14 PM

Damn it! What have I done!
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#41 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #26
Anakin's Hissy Fit:

I think Anakin is still accepted in the council because they're running out of members. As you can see, some Jedi are holograms and they are in other planets and a lot of Jedis have died during the war. (Because of General Grievous cuz he rocks). So the Jedi needed more members and so they pick the ''Chosen One'' to be a member of the council no matter his attitude.


get accepted into the mafia and demand that the godfather call you the godfather...

the jedi are way too forgiving to allow that. he was granted quite an honor and for what he said and the tone of voice he took, he may as well have taken a piss at windu's feet and called him a motherfucker...

they never dicipline him, in AOTC as well... it's disgracefull, and unnaceptable...

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #27
The Jedi Are Idiots:

The Jedi gave Ani the task of looking out for Plapy because Anakin is Palp's best friend. And they Jedi allow him to use the black robes because.... I don't know it was then fashion on those days.


so the guy who just showed disrespect to the whole counsel (again) who acts like a psycho, doesn't follow orders, always argues with his master, just argued with mace and told him to call him master, who is also friends with the dude they trust the least, is the best candidate for the mission...?

and the black robes, cool as they may be, are a bit of a concearn when on a character who acts like that...

he may as well have had a t-shirt that said 'bad mother fucker' or 'darkside point gained'

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #28
Wookiee Relations

I agree that the line was fucking stupid but I have to counter this for the sake of fun. That line was only a justification for sending Yoda to Kashyyk instead of some guy like Mace Windu.


let's not get started on what's wrong with yoda knowing chewbacca, let alone including kashyyyk 20 years too late... or the fact that it is so hard to conceive that maybe, just once, two characters in the galaxy didn't fucking know each other...

i mean why was it so important to conquor this planet... sure the wookies are tough, but i don't see an airforce there...

it seems to me that few ever leave the planet, and most that have end up as pelts for bossks race...

i think it was childish to laugh at the line for any other reason then the absurdity of yoda being friends with wookies... but oh well... rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #29
The Jedi Code

It's bee scientifically proved that Lucas gives a DAMN about the EU. Maybe Lucas invented a code of his own or maybe the Jedi were tired of having a fuckin' paragraph as the code.


admittedly the code chefelf uses is quoted in KOTOR which is meant to be some 4000 years before the rise of the empire... they may have changed it to:

There is no emotion, there is peace
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge
There is no passion, there is serenity
There is no death, there is the Force
There is no execution of unarmed opponents, There is some sort of legal system
There is no romantic relationships, There is masturbation and cold showers
There is never three sith, there is only two


"It is not the Jedi way." may have been the way to go there, but again, the jedi code falls in with midichlorians in the 'shit to fall back on when explanations escape the writer' catigory...

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #30
The Prophecy

Yoda says the prophecy could have been misread because Jedi think that balance means that the living Force will be in peace and that everybody will be happy, not that they will be two Jedi and two Sith. Mace Windu just nods because he was thinking about it.


ah, yes... the counsel of the wise...

the conversation is basically this:
OBIWAN: anikan is the choosen one right?
YODA: wrong we may have been. suck at reading prophesies also we may.
MACE: yeah, that'd suck...

all it was missing was this:

PILOT: look out, sharp left!
MACE: wahhhhhhhhh
OBIWAN: how uncivilised, woooooooooooooo
YODA: falling we are. splat on ground we shall. hmmp.

QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jun 27 2005, 03:31 PM)
Reason #31
The Stupid Dumb Jedi Idiots

As I said before the Jedi think balance means happiness not equality of Jedi and Sith. And I agree that Jedi are idiots.


the sith would only be happy if the jedi were dead. there can't be balance...


well hope that was to your satisfaction...
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Posted 27 June 2005 - 08:01 PM

Now I have to wait a week before I go on. Also I'm just doing the countering because I want the discussion to go on because that's the point of this bloody topic! I agree with almost everything that Chefelf says. That the Jedi are idiots to not see Ani as a bad guy, to not understand the ''prophecy'' and to not know his own fuckin' code!
I just have to invent what a gusher will answer for the sake of arguing.
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#43 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 02:44 AM

I decide to give up the countering because there's another one counterer: yourUsername. And you know that always three there are, Chefelf, the countere and Barend.
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#44 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 03:14 AM

Concerning Reason 26.

I thought that Council wanted to use Anakin as a bait for Palpatine, they thought they can handle him. What is wrong with this reasoning? Jedi were slightly arrogant, but there was a plan with chance of sucess.
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#45 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 06:36 AM

QUOTE
get accepted into the mafia and demand that the godfather call you the godfather...

the jedi are way too forgiving to allow that. he was granted quite an honor and for what he said and the tone of voice he took, he may as well have taken a piss at windu's feet and called him a motherfucker...

they never dicipline him, in AOTC as well... it's disgracefull, and unnaceptable...


Anakin's preposterous arrogence and whinyness is the biggest problem I have with the fool.

In all honestly, a guy who's barely 21 and actually gets a position of great honor and importance is peeved at the fact that he didn't get the whole deal and only some tiny bit? What's the average age of the people on the Jedi Counsel, anyway? I would not be the least bit surprised if Anakin was the youngest counsel member ever. That would be an achievement to boast of, but he's still not satisfied with what he got and had the audicity to complain in their faces and scold them!

It does not matter what tone of voice he took, even though I'm sure that many would disagree with me. The very fact that he simply did not show any gratitiude at all for his promotion and his only 'aftereffect' of it was to be displeased at the fact that he didn't get the status of Jedi Master immidately along with it is by far more than enough to tell what kind of an individual Anakin is no matter how he expresses it.
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