[SithAvenger]

I just made this thread so Storm can counter Chefelf here.

But I'm warning you Strom, Chef is right on almost every new reason. Especially the one of the romance.

So post them here Storm.

[floppydisk]

Heh. That'd be funny if he shows up and says

"Fuck, cheffy was right. I have no use for this thread."

Then we'd all laugh.

[Private Zod]

Depends. The romance (or whatever you call that clusterfuck) and the last few reasons especially involving mace are dead on. The vast majority of the remaining reasons (from 1-30), while highly entertaining, are very nitpicky and trivial.

When I first read the ones for TPM and AOTC, it actually made me reALIZE MORE FULLY HOW BAD THOSE FILMS WERE. This time, while Chefelf's writing is still superb, don't resonate with me as much since I enjoyed the film more. Did it have faults, hell yes. But this time I am overlooking them. But that is just me.

[Despondent]

The writing is as good as always. The biggest difference is that the movie doesn't suck as bad as the first two. And that's not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things.

But Vader gets the redemption. I'm not pardoning Lucas.

[SithAvenger]

I loved the baby ratings. They're so hilarious.

[Jordan]

Just put the counter points under the pinned reasons post. All these multiple threads do is scatter the conversation.

[Storm]

Just put the counter points under the pinned reasons post.  All these multiple threads do is scatter the conversation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jordan, there are already 10 pages in that other thread. It doesn't scatter the conversation at all, rather it focuses on 10 points which is exactly my objective. I don't want to read a thousand replies in that other thread. It's easier like this, and besides the more threads the better.

Okay, I read Chef's thoughts for the week and found them to be tremendously predicatable and again dull. The problem is I can't really argue with what he says because some of his points are so insignificant. But here goes anyways.....

21. Wind?
It's "strange" that I missed this on the balcony scene all four times as well as the wind issue in AOTC while Anakin and Obi-Wan are in the open speeder. The wind problem in AOTC is justifiable, since they are actually moving. In ROTS, Padme and Anakin are not moving at all.

Now I am aware that wind speed is greater at higher altitudes, as anyone can observe here on Earth. However, Star Wars is based a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. There are thousands of planets. There is nothing to say that all the physical laws need to be constant on every planet in the galaxy. For all we know, the wind speed could be constant at any height on Coruscant. If it's a calm or windy day, it doesn't matter what altitude you are standing.

Undoubtedly Chef would expect the "wind" to be much greater standing 100 meters above the surface of the moon compared to standing directly on the surface.

22. Romance
I'll be the first to admit I think the balcony scene is totally unnecessary in ROTS. However, is it unrealistic? I don't think so. I beg you to eavesdrop on a young couple flirting with each other. I think you will find some totally lame compliments exchanged between the two. In fact, you'll probably laugh out loud as to how corny it is. If anything, it's realistic. At least I got the impression the two did love each other. That is a significant improvement over AOTC.

I must congratulate Chef on his ability to realize that people would hate this scene and then make himself seem like a god by drilling the point to death. I can imagine that Chef and Jaques had the following conversation.

CHEF: Jaques, things are not going so well. I'm under a lot of pressure from the people in my forum to release some really clever and hilarious points. This is the most opposition I have ever received to my points, and I've only released 20 of them.

JACQUES: Well, your points really do seem forced. I mean come on, "The Chancellor's Signal", "PAD-A-MAY", Four points on R2-D2 when one point would have sufficed.

CHEF: Yeah, I know. What should I do? I need to gain their approval back.

JACQUES: How about you go insanely overboard on nitpicking a part of the movie you know everyone must have either hated or disliked.

CHEF: Well, it seemed that everyone hated the romance between Padme and Anakin in AOTC....so people are guaranteed to dislike any romantic scenes involving the two. Okay! I'll go absolutely overboard in nitpicking the scene on the balcony. Any other recommendations?

JACQUES: George Lucas tends to use a lot of CGI to distract the viewers from his horrible writing. So why don't you add some pictures to distract the reader from how forced and dull your points are?

CHEF: Okay, why don't I show a step by step human reaction to the lines said in that scene. Almost anyone would cringe at what they say, even a BABY!

JACQUES: Wooooeeeeee! You the man, Chef!

23. Padme's Big Pregnant Belly
That aside, it is noted that Padme is displaying the belly of someone who is clearly at least seven months pregnant. This leads me to a question: Why, after hugging Padme and lifting her up and pressing his body against hers, did he need to be told by her that she was pregnant? Did he not feel a big pregnant belly between himself and Padme earlier? Or did he just assume she'd been eating too many intergalactic bonbons?

The two hadn't seen each other in nearly a year, from what I understand. I'm pretty sure Anakin was so happy to see her that he didn't even pay attention to Padme's physical attributes while hugging her. I'm certain an emotional "high" can distract you from paying complete attention to the physical world. I also seem to recall that Anakin is consistently looking Padme in the eyes while they first see each other. And even if he did notice, I doubt he would start hugging her and then throw Padme off after he noticed that her stomach was big. It was clear that Padme had some important news to tell Anakin, and Anakin was patient enough to let her explain without making assumptions.

24. Padme Dying
Anakin was already visibly upset by the nightmare and Padme has seen before how those nightmares can effect him. Even if she was creeped out, she can't just say "Oh my God, I'm dead for sure." and then start crying. It wouldn't help the situation at all. In fact, in would make Anakin feel substantially worse. By biting the bullet and hiding her fear (at this specific time anyways), she is acting as a compassionate and supporting spouse.

25. Yoda's Shoddy Closet Philosophy
Yoda actually tells Anakin that there shouldn't even be a mourning period when someone dies. You shouldn't even miss this person when they're gone. It becomes quite clear that Yoda is not just some wise sage of the Jedi order, he is just a mean guy.

Have you ever heard of the concept of "tough love". It may seem mean what Yoda said, but ultimately it is true. The more you mourn for or miss a person, the more you are holding yourself back. Rather than moving ahead into the future, you would spend your time dwelling in the past. You can't change things that have already occured.

Anyhow, I'm really tired right now. I'll release points 25-30 tomorrow evening.

Ciao.

This post has been edited by Storm: 21 June 2005 - 12:13 AM

[diligent_d]

The two hadn't seen each other in nearly a year, from what I understand. I'm pretty sure Anakin was so happy to see her that he didn't even pay attention to Padme's physical attributes while hugging her.

Oh come on! That's ridiculous man. Not noticing the pregnant belly of some seven months into it??

[DarthTherion]

Just a brief comment about Yoda's advice to Anakin. The Force was originally based on the concepts of Eastern religion, in which ideas like non-attachment are key. Buddhism tells us that it is our tendency to become attached to impermanent things that causes suffering. If we learn to "let go," we can enjoy these things while they are here and accept their passing, which is necessary and unavoidable.

The scene with Yoda lays out this important philosophical point very well -- this is Yoda at his most spiritually insightful in the any of the six movies. There's nothing "mean" or "tough" about his tone at all.

What I love about the scene is the extent to which it establishes this point right at the beginning of the film. The rest of the movie seems like a commentary on it and an illustration of the dangers of attachment, which is the path to the dark side.

Oh, and great job so far, Storm.

[Jordan]

MOre pages are not better. Having all the posts in one thread is clean and easy to locate. how often are you going back 10's or 100's of pages in search of a past comment?

That is why Chef pinned the post in the first place, to keep comments regarding his reasons list in one place.

Undoubtedly Chef would expect the "wind" to be much greater standing 100 meters above the surface of the moon compared to standing directly on the surface.

It is, I have engineering codes that prove it. Liquid/Wind's velocity increases as you move away from a wall/surface.


Reason 22 is valid. The romance was dead. They were just mouthing romantic banter with no body language at all. Half the theatre laughed and many others moaned as this scene carried out. I actually looked the other way out of embarrisment. This is not how lovers act. I don't need to evasedrop either (creep). I've been in enough relationships and have seen friends in relationships. I know how lovers talk and it ain't like that!

By biting the bullet and hiding her fear (at this specific time anyways), she is acting as a compassionate and supporting spouse.

Civillian number 2 made a great point once. Here it is.

I'll give you another example: In DIE HARD II, there's a set of bad special ops guys wh pretend to be shooting at some bad terrorists. Thing is, they are all shooting blanks. They give one of these guns to Bruce Willis, the cop, and he shoots away with it. There's an extended firefight, and then the terrorists get away. Bruce later learns that he had been firing blanks. As a viewer, I felt cheated, since of course, the time for him to have known he was firing blanks was when he was actually firing them! That there were no bullets ripping apart the walls of the church he was shooting at, the windows didn't break, and nobody was hit. Just because the camera didn't make this explicit to me doesn't mean that that Mr Bruce Willis wouldn't have noticed. It's not supposed to have been the first time he ever fired a gun!

See, that's an example of a case where the filmmaker cheats by making an "important clue" invisible by way of having no main character notice a really obvious thing.

Lucas cheated again. Padme simply ignores a dream from ANakin and passes it off like no big deal. Even though his dreams have been proven right in the past, she just dances around that fact, because Lucas did not want her to acknowledge it. All logic would point to- If some one predicted a persons death, and was later proven correct, then if that some on predicted your death, you would probably worry.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 21 June 2005 - 02:16 AM

[julie123]

[quote=DarthTherion,Jun 21 2005, 06:58 AM]

Quote

Just a brief comment about Yoda's advice to Anakin. The Force was originally based on the concepts of Eastern religion, in which ideas like non-attachment are key. Buddhism tells us that it is our tendency to become attached to impermanent things that causes suffering. If we learn to "let go," we can enjoy these things while they are here and accept their passing, which is necessary and unavoidable.

Yes, this is true but the Jedi could equally be argued to be based on the Christian religion. The Jedi ability to die and still retain "themselves" in the force, is much like the Christian belief in the hereafter.

Quote

The scene with Yoda lays out this important philosophical point very well -- this is Yoda at his most spiritually insightful in the any of the six movies. There's nothing "mean" or "tough" about his tone at all.

It strikes me as odd that Yoda is the only Jedi who gets to impart these spiritual insights, especially because of his dreadful syntax. One would almost think that he's the only Jedi whose read the Buddist Religion Handbook for Aspiring Jedi. The only reason that I can think off why Anakin didn't call him a cold and unfeeling git, is because it took him about 5 minutes to work out exactly what Yoda was saying.

Quote

What I love about the scene is the extent to which it establishes this point right at the beginning of the film. The rest of the movie seems like a commentary on it and an illustration of the dangers of attachment, which is the path to the dark side.

What struck me about this scene was no wonder the Jedi find it so easy to search their feelings, it is because they have none. The only way Yoda can feel the force, is by using that gimmer stick of his. And if the rest of the movie is like a commentary on Yoda's point, why has Yoda allowed Anakin's friendship with Palpatine to happen, is this not an attachment? Shouldn't the great all seeing and wise Yoda that you speak of practice what he preaches, especially if he is going to lecture someone else about it?

[QUOTE]Oh, and great job so far, Storm.
[

He's really not doing a good job. All of his rejoinders to Chef are just ridculous.

[Lord Melkor]

No, Julie dear, his counter reasons are quite valid. Actually over half of Chefelf`s reasons are so nitpicky that they are ridiculous. Though the romance comments were good.

Yoda`s philosophy is based mostly on buddism. It is tough, but who said being Jedi is easy? Power brings responsibility, you can`t have everything.

And it is quite obvious to me that Jedi Code from films is not the one Chefelf brings.

This post has been edited by Lord Melkor: 21 June 2005 - 08:21 AM

[Storm]

Okay, I will admit that Anakin probably did notice the pregnant belly. But he has two options when he sees his wife for the first time in nearly a year:

1. Stop and say "What the hell is that?" and refuse to hug until she explains.
2. Hug her and then let her explain, since it was obvious she had something to say.

I'll let you guys decide which is more appropriate.

My comment about the moon was made to enforce the fact that you can't assume physical laws to be the same everywhere in the universe. Maybe the same laws apply on the moon as on Earth, I really don't know. However, having a calm sky on the top of a balcony on Coruscant is something I am easily able to suspend disbelief for.

[julie123]

Yoda`s philosophy is based mostly on buddism. It is tough, but who said being Jedi is easy? Power brings responsibility, you can`t have everything.

Really? And there I was thinking that Lucas did want everything! I will say again, it is absurd that Yoda preaches about attachments to Anakin but has failed to step in and prevent Anakin's attachment to Palpatine.

And it is quite obvious to me that Jedi Code from films is not the one Chefelf brings.

Well what Jedi Code does the film use then? The Jedi Code in the film seems to be a free range, all encompassing manual that is used when ever Anakin wants to get himself out of trouble.

[diligent_d]

1. Stop and say "What the hell is that?" and refuse to hug until she explains.

Not for nothing, but if I was gone for 7 months and then came back to a wife who was visibly pregnant, I probably would cut right to the chase and immediately ask her! Out of pure shock more than anything. But maybe that's just me.

No, Julie dear, his counter reasons are quite valid. Actually over half of Chefelf`s reasons are so nitpicky that they are ridiculous. Though the romance comments were good.

I disagree. The points are valid and most are what pissed me off too when I watched the film.