[CowboyCurtis]

Geez, if I had the ability to shapechange, I would look somebody else and walk out---how hard is that? For Chrissakes... stop making excuses for this stupid character and the stupid situation that came out of it.

You know, nobody is going to think LESS of you if you admit that these films have problems....

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 10 July 2005 - 08:55 AM

[xenduck]

you accuse gushers of making excuses for how the movies work, while simultaneously you make excuses for how the movies dont work. its bloody hypocracy! you think you're clever for showing these 'plotholes', but you fail to observe the most basic principles of logic.

if the logical thing to do was to shapeshift, yet she didnt, then logically she was unable to.

i dont think you have a doctorate in shapeshifting. how do you know what she can and cant do? if shapeshifting is so easy, why does she wear a mask? not to mention her cloths wouldnt change. and regardless of appearance, the jedi can FEEL her presence. use your head!(acctually dont, its a no-brainer)
there was NO WAY zam was going to escape; which is EXACTLY what sidious was counting on.

i will think MORE of you if you admit these films have few problems...

[Despondent]

I'd like to (read: wouldn't really care to) see a compleat PT, with subtitles and pop-ups to point out all the subtleties and nuance of genius that seemingly goes overlooked.

[Hari Seldon]

I'd like to (read: wouldn't really care to) see a compleat PT, with subtitles and pop-ups to point out all the subtleties and nuance of genius that seemingly goes overlooked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cue little cheery tune "Pop Up Video!"

[CowboyCurtis]

if the logical thing to do was to shapeshift, yet she didnt, then logically she was unable to.

LOL!!!!

Then what was the bloody point of "her" ever having a human face? What was the POINT if it has nothing to do with the story? Why have this effect at all? Zam could've dropped his equipment and armor and walked out--and speaking of logic---would a nightclub REALLY only have ONE exit.

And about the Jedi sensing her: If they can't sense a freakin' darklord standing next to them, I can't swallow that they would be able to sense a shapeshifter...

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 12 July 2005 - 02:55 PM

[xenduck]

well... as far as i can tell there was no point to her 'changling' abilities. but if you go around asking whats the point of all the aliens extra apendages and apptitudes you'll come up equally confounded. i mean, whats the point of yoda's pointy ears? or maul's horns?

and for cryin' out loud, who said anything about only one exit. im trying to tell you that zam had no intention of escaping when she entered the bar (she already tried running and it didnt work), so what friggin difference does it make if there were two-thousand four-hundered and eight-three exits or one?

and, for the record, for the sake of the entire saga, you have to accept that the one thing jedi cant sense is a sith lord. that was explained numerous times throughout the PT; "hard to see the darkside is."!

This post has been edited by xenduck: 12 July 2005 - 04:24 PM

[Hari Seldon]

if the logical thing to do was to shapeshift, yet she didnt, then logically she was unable to.

LOL!!!!

Then what was the bloody point of "her" ever having a human face?  What was the POINT if it has nothing to do with the story?  Why have this effect at all?  Zam could've dropped his equipment and armor and walked out--and speaking of logic---would a nightclub REALLY only have ONE exit.

And about the Jedi sensing her:  If they can't sense a freakin' darklord standing next to them, I can't swallow that they would be able to sense a shapeshifter...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehehe... I think she was fooling everybody there.
She was no damn shapeshifter! She was just a simple girl who liked complicated gizmos.

And while we're at it, why the hell did she send those icky worm-things to get Padmé? Geez, couldn't she simply cut a hole in the glass, shoot her in the head and get the hell outta there?
I hate when the bad guys get too complicated (James Bond, anyone??)

Bah.

[Despondent]

"hard to see, the PT is."


he ran out of gas. he changed horses midway through the race. he never left the starting blocks.

there's a few parellel universe explanations for you.

[Hari Seldon]

"hard to see, the PT is."
he ran out of gas. he changed horses midway through the race. he never left the starting blocks.

there's a few parellel universe explanations for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, you're a dog now!

Woof woof!

[Despondent]

that's just Louis. He Always knew Sith was going to suck.

(According to the SW/ESB standard, anyway. Not bad for a prequel.)

ESB: Arf!
AOTC: Woof!

[CowboyCurtis]

well... as far as i can tell there was no point to her 'changling' abilities. but if you go around asking whats the point of all the aliens extra apendages and apptitudes you'll come up equally confounded. i mean, whats the point of yoda's pointy ears? or maul's horns?

Ears and horns don't have the capacity to change a story line... changing forms DOES.

and, for the record, for the sake of the entire saga, you have to accept that the one thing jedi cant sense is a sith lord. that was explained numerous times throughout the PT; "hard to see the darkside is."!

A PT fabrication---just like midichlorians... I don't have to accept ANYTHING from the PT. They're duly ignored.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 12 July 2005 - 10:55 PM

[xenduck]

anything can potentially change a plot. shapeshifting could have vastly effected the outcome, except that in this scenario, it was useless. ive tried to show you why it is useless but you shrug it off by saying "i dont have to accept anything." thats true, you dont have to accept gravity. you dont have to accept that trees can walk, but you'd hate LOTR. you dont have to accept that mystical energy fields can effect inorganic matter, but you wont get much enjoyment outta star wars. you cant criticise one premise of a movie then ignore the premise that explains away your criticism. as i said, thats hypocrisy.

[DarthTherion]

I really have to hand it to Xenduck. Time and time again I see him make some excellent points in these forums.

There are alot of things wrong with the PT, and I understand that everyone here hates the movies, hates George Lucas, and is just blowing off some steam; hence, I generally let things slide. However, you really can't say that everything about every prequel movie is terrible or a horrible idea without someone raising a few points you have to consider.

The points to consider:

1) Jedi can sense people (surprise!). Anakin Skywalker tracked Zam down while she was fleeing in a moving vehicle. If someone could follow you when you're in a moving vehicle, there is no point in running. The chase is over; you've been outmatched. It's time to think of a different strategy. Zam does so.

(As an aside, it's really unfair to say, "The Jedi can't sense Sidious, therefore they can't sense anybody!" It was Xenduck, in fact, who suggested an answer to this issue in another thread -- Jedi can sense a person's "force signature," but only after they've had contact with that person. Since no Jedi has ever encountered Darth Sidious, no Jedi can compare Palpatine's "force signature" to that of the dark lord. There are also several theories running around about clouding the force and the "veil of the dark side," but we'll not get into that now)

2) Shapeshifting. Zam is a "changeling" and is an example of a new alien race that we encounter in the PT. Her abilities are useless in the situation she's in -- that is, when facing two Jedi Knights.

3) Nowhere does anyone say at any time that there is only one exit to the club. Where did we get that idea from? (I consulted the script at imdb.com....I couldn't find any reference to the existence of only one exit)

4) Was it Xenduck who made the point in this thread that Sidious actually wants Zam to be caught and *intends* the Jedi to follow the trail of the bounty hunter and discover the clone army? I don't remember, but if so, you are correct!

I'll definitely admit that AOTC is the weakest link in the Star Wars saga. But let's not go crazy over the changeling bounty hunter's plan of action.

[CowboyCurtis]

Okay, let's get down to brass tacks, Xenduck....

If you talk about accepting things---then you had better accept that the PT will NEVER have the stature and awe that the original Star Wars. Years and decades will only prove that the movies are not the classics. They'll never appear on AFI's top 100 films list, nor any other film list unless it's top worst films.

It's a silly, awful, summer blockbuster already forgotten. The toys are already being shovelled out of the Wal-Marts.

So you can continue to "explain" things until you're blue in the face, but you will never have what the original fans had of the original films. There is no way around that and you can thank Lucas for that.

I know you don't believe me, but time will only prove us Bashers right.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 13 July 2005 - 10:38 AM

[xenduck]

well heres an odd situation, in order to agree with you i have to disagree. i do believe you, without a doubt, the PT is of far lesser quality than the OT. but falling short of the OT still leaves the PT far ahead of most other movies. lightning never strikes twice, as they say. my gripe is that so many critiscisms seem shallow and...well, the kind of cricism other movies can avoid; what other movie is so scrutinized, so harshly and unsympatheticly judged? if people are going to nitpick tiny little 'problems' then im going to demonstrate every little 'solution'; cause i love star wars!

and thank you darththerion