[julie123]

Apologize for making films that make hundreds of millions, and some people are willing to see it in cinema 10 or more times?( And I have seen it only once by the way, only film I have seen two times in cinema  was LOTR first part).



And there is no hate, messa thinking those boards funny!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A fool and their money are soon parted.

[Deleted Scene]

I think the definitive word here is that anyone who wants to enjoy the PT will come up with any justification necessary to excuse inconsistancies, and anyone who wants to hate the PT will never accept anything that contradicts their impression of what the PT should have been (based on the few clues given in the OT).

To attempt to lay out any sort of "definitive word" on the matter is rather bold, and you're simply not qualified to make such a claim as you don't know the thoughts or insights of every viewer. I'm of the belief that if Lucas didn't want to stay true to his own story, then he should not have made the PT's to begin with. It's ridiculous for anyone to make the first three chapters in a six-part story and completely deviate and dismiss what parts 4-6 (which came first) have previously established.

I've always approached inconsistancies in anything as an opportunity to discover creative possibilities for connecting things that don't seem to fit on first glance. Perhaps it gives much more depth to something that doesn't have it, but it is one's own entertainment that counts.

It is the job of the writer to connect the plotlines together and remove inconsistancies, not the audience.

[WalkingCarpet]

I agree with Deleted Scene. We don't want to be spoon-fed each and every detail, but we shouldn't have to make things up ourselves either.

Truly great writers/directors can inject just enough subtelty into a storyline so that you can work things out by thinking for yourself, but still incorporating what is presented to you.

[CptSeaMonkey]

DarthTherion, I'm not debating the plot hole issue ... I'm *telling* you it's a plot hole. You can make up some BS about the Emperor being able to tell exactly where Luke/Leia are being trained once it begins, but there's nothing in any of the movies to suggest that is the case.

[julie123]

As far as the killing an unarmed captive goes, remember that it's your state of mind that counts. Anakin kills Dooku out of revenge and personal feelings; when Mace is going to finish off Palpatine, he's acting out of his duty as a Jedi knight. Though the actions are the same, the mindset of the individuals makes them as different as night and day.

That wasn't my point. My point was why did Anakin insist on a trail for Palpatine when he had denied the same to Dooku. Did I miss something but wouldn't the Jedi Code apply to both situations?

And if killing unarmed captives depends on your state of mind, as Anakin appeared calm and collected when he chopped Mace's hand off and allowed Palps to finish Mace off, would this have made him still a Jedi if he hadn't then gone on to pledge himself to the Sith?

[The Lord of Dorkness]

I think it Anakin was saying; "if you kill him, you make the same mistake as me" between the lines. But that's just me.

And if Luke hadn't thrown away his lightsaber, or Vader didn't stop Palpatine on the Death Star, all three would have died in the explosion.

[CowboyCurtis]

You know, if Lucas had made the PT's more like what the OOT hints at, the Gushers would fall right in line and gone along with it, and we wouldn't be having these arguments like we do today.

I really do wonder what it would've taken for Lucas to do to finally get a gusher to say, "okay, this sucks." It seems to me no matter what Lucas does, they'll swallow it whole and praise the almighty Baron Papanoida.

Just what would it have taken for you guys to wake up?

[DarthTherion]

I really do wonder what it would've taken for Lucas to do to finally get a gusher to say, "okay, this sucks."  It seems to me no matter what Lucas does, they'll swallow it whole and praise the almighty Baron Papanoida.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, Cowboy. I had intended not to reply to this thread anymore, because I meant it when I said "definitive word." However, I want to set the record straight on something.

I do not consider myself a gusher at all. (In fact, if you read my thread "Lucas, the damn sellout," you'll observe that I am actually the only true basher on this forum) In actuality, I'm more of a "devil's advocate." If everyone here were kissing Lucas' ass, I would make posts about how much the movies suck. My goal is to see everything from as many points of view as possible and expand debate on topics, because it's fun to do. I'm not on anyone's side.

Yeah, sure, in the OT, we were led to believe that the mother had survived and lived with Leia for a few years. Ooooh, an inconsistency! It's not really an inconsistency due to the vagueness of the original reference, and it is such a minor issue compared to the things that are *really* wrong with the PT that it seems so stupid to be arguing this.

You want me to say "Okay, this sucks"? I'll tell you what sucks -- the entire Star Wars series. It's a really bad series of movies, and it was so even before the prequels were released. Now, this is partially because Lucas is a sellout who can't stick to his own story (the original story was going to be about a midget named Dirk Starkiller, and it would have been GREAT! Damn you Luca$! But I digress....) -- but it is also due to the silly plotline, simplistic characters, dumb dialogue, and incredibly vague ideas that strike chords with people just because they are not specific in the least ("The Force will be with you...always").

Conjure up the ghost of Alec Guinness and ask him about Star Wars, would you? He was a real actor who saw through all this bullshit.

Why do I like Star Wars? Because it's *fun*. Why am I making posts that propose theories about the plot of the PT? Because it's *fun*. I actually like the idea that the PT movies are focused on a few specific events and leave the background details and specific explanations to the audience's imagination.

Okay, I'll admit it -- the death scene sucks hard. Here's why -- it should have been Padme naming the second child Dirk...then, the medical droid says something weird. Obi-wan furrows his brow and translates, "I'm...I'm sorry, but...Dirk is a midget."

Padme gathers up her final strength and expires with a final, "Noooooooo!"

This post has been edited by DarthTherion: 01 July 2005 - 03:17 PM

[Otal Nimrodi]

I agree with Darth Therion here. Star Wars is, despite all of the great reviews, not really good at all. Honestly, it was a fad. A fad that has run out of time. Like bellbottoms and pokemon, it has given up the ghost. I too post here because it's fun. Because it's enjoyable. Because, frankly, it's the closest I will ever get to a social life.

[DarthTherion]

I hope everyone realizes that the longer I stay on this forum, the deeper I press my tongue in my cheek.

Who can blame me? All you damn gushers....

[Radu094]

Yes, we all know this, but it still doesn't change the fact that Luke looks stupid for doing it. For the sake of argument, let's say Luke had known about being able to block force lightning with his sabre, he still threw it away in his act of rejecting the darkside.. [...]

Well, there you go ! That's what PT has done for you... it has turned Star Wars into a shitty story with linear plots and caracters.

The beauty of the OT was that it was a deeper, more tragic, kind of film. Luke went to Vader because Yoda told him to. He needed to confront him in order to become a Jedi, and he also hoped he could save his father in the process. After he cut Vader's arm the conflic was over. The end...

He throws the lightsaber away as he tells the Emperor "You failed your highness!". Translation: I beat Vader and I didn't join the Dark Side... now I'm a Jedi ("like my father before me").

I don't think fighting the Emperor was ever in Luke's mind. For a matter of fact I suspect Luke never thought he'd get out of there alive.

[showmethemoney]

Well, there  you go ! That's what PT has done for you... it has turned Star Wars into a shitty story with linear plots and caracters.

The beauty of the OT was that it was a deeper, more tragic, kind of film. Luke went to Vader because Yoda told him to. He needed to confront him in order to become a Jedi, and he also hoped he could save his father in the process. After he cut Vader's arm the conflic was over. The end...

He throws the lightsaber away as he tells the Emperor "You failed your highness!". Translation: I beat Vader and I didn't join the Dark Side... now I'm a Jedi ("like my father before me").

I don't think fighting the Emperor was ever in Luke's mind. For a matter of fact I suspect Luke never thought he'd get out of there alive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, Luke did what a Jedi do: stand for the principles.
Maybe it looks corny today, but it was consistent with the idea of a spiritualized and honorable warrior as the jedi were before PT

[Darth Borba]

so we wouldn't Vader to sense Luke and Leia hanging out doing Jedi stuff together, but putting Luke on the SAME PLANET that his father was from with his CLOSE RELATIVES, WITH THE SAME NAME is totally byond Vader's sensing abilities.


Someone said something about the PT we had in our heads before.. I didn't really have a PT in my head because the OT doesn't really leave us much of a reason for one.

I mean come on, that's like seeing what Aragorn and Legolas were up to before the LOTR.. It's just not really necessary, even if it might be kind of cool.

And I'm sure there were tons of books about all that stuff, but still.

Obiwan telling luke that his father was killed by Vader is a lot different than certain things from the new Star Wars movies. It's not very far-fetched to say that Obiwan didn't just want to tell Luke right off the bat that his father was Darth Vader, I mean come on.
I'm sure Lucas didn't know he was going to make Vader Luke's father when he finished ANH, but he didn't have to totally disregard everthing that happened before.

I'm sure the new movies would have sucked even if everything added up, it's just extra-annoying that certain events are obviously disregarding the old movies.

The original Star Wars wasn't just for kids. The new Star Wars seems to me like a crappy little kid movie. It has certain things that kids would be bored with and the rest is just too silly for most adults.

[DarthTherion]

so we wouldn't Vader to sense Luke and Leia hanging out doing Jedi stuff together, but putting Luke on the SAME PLANET that his father was from with his CLOSE RELATIVES, WITH THE SAME NAME is totally byond Vader's sensing abilities.
Someone said something about the PT we had in our heads before.. I didn't really have a PT in my head because the OT doesn't really leave us much of a reason for one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I might as well set this plot point straight. In the first place, there was no chance Vader was going to go back to check on his "family" on Tatooine. He met them only once, very briefly, and his memories of his time there are not exactly pleasant. What possible reason would he have for checking up on them?

Secondly, allowing Luke to keep the Skywalker surname is something Obi-wan probably decided -- he was hoping that once Luke became a hero and met up with his father, Vader would learn the name and realize that Luke was his son. This would have several positive effects -- it would shock Vader, remind him of his past, make the fight more difficult for him, stir up emotions, etc.

Thirdly, Vader and Palpatine firmly believe the baby (they think there was only one child) is dead. There is absolutely no reason either of them would ever be searching for a child.

[Patrick Bateman]

Let's face it ... George Lucas fucked up big time, and I don't even mean f'd up as in making a mistake, I mean becoming (or perhaps always being ) an egotistical meglomaniac who takes NOONE's advice.

Do you honestly think that at no point noone, not George's director mates, not the actors, not the producer, not the crew, not the speffect's people, not one time did one person say "ah ... - cough - excuse me Mr Lucas ... ah ... ummm. it's just that ... in an earlier film Leia remembers her mum and here she ... well her mum dies during childbirth. And also ... ah Jim has a comment."
"Ah yes, it's just that .... ah .... in Jedi Luke who is such a good Jedi he overpowers Darth in a sabre fight, well ... he doesn't seem to know that you can block lightning with your hands or your sabre ...." etc etc.

Of course they did, George would have just thought "I am Lucas, I am all... hear me wookie roar ... feel my thunder ... I have made it and I shall do what I want"

Lucas is a piece of shit, he giveth and he more than taketh away...