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OB1 the over dramatic jerk? What do you think?

#1 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:32 PM

OB1 was jerk in the OT. He lied to Luke! I'm still not sure why he let Vader kill him. And all that talk about "becoming stronger after being stiken down" is non-sense.

I always thought that was Lucas lifting Christ's resurection. Christ became stronger after death. He gave up on his frail flesh and bones body and became a spirit, sitting at the right hand of God, becoming master and saviour of the world, and so forth.

But Ob1 does nothing after death. He does everything he could have done alive, that being, chat with friends. The scene where OB1 tells Luke to use the force instead of relying on the X-wing target system was crucial, but Luke send force messages to Leia while he was alive, I mean, why did ob1 die? What was important about it? IT seems like a lot of dramatic dialogue "i'll be stronger in death"

Why did OB1 let himself die?

Why did he lie to Luke?

Episode IV portrayed him as a kind wise old man, but later on we would find out he was a liar and that his death was pointless.

But Lucas never really addressed his death or the lie. He's so afriad of making a good guy slightly bad that he writes around the characters down fall or ingores it altogether by not drawing attention to it (eg. Luke was not mad at Ob1, therefore he did not lie-even though in ESB Luke seemed miffed, he some how got over it in ROTJ). Same can be said about Anakin. HE could not make him evil with out a reason, every thing had to be justified. Joining the dark side to save his wife? ha!

This post has been edited by Jordan: 15 June 2005 - 05:37 PM

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#2 User is offline   andy_k_250 Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Jun 15 2005, 05:32 PM)
OB1 was jerk in the OT.  He lied to Luke!  I'm still not sure why he let Vader kill him.  And all that talk about "becoming stronger after being stiken down" is non-sense.

I always thought that was Lucas lifting Christ's resurection.  Christ became stronger after death.  He gave up on his frail flesh and bones body and became a spirit, sitting at the right hand of God, becoming master and saviour of the world, and so forth.

But Ob1 does nothing after death.  He does everything he could have done alive, that being, chat with friends.  The scene where OB1 tells Luke to use the force instead of relying on the X-wing target system was crucial, but Luke send force messages to Leia while he was alive, I mean, why did ob1 die?  What was important about it?  IT seems like a lot of dramatic dialogue "i'll be stronger in death"

Why did OB1 let himself die?

Why did he lie to Luke?

Episode IV portrayed him as a kind wise old man, but later on we would find out he was a liar and that his death was pointless.

But Lucas never really addressed his death or the lie.  He's so afriad of making a good guy slightly bad that he writes around the characters down fall or ingores it altogether by not drawing attention to it (eg. Luke was not mad at Ob1, therefore he did not lie-even though in ESB Luke seemed miffed, he some how got over it in ROTJ).  Same can be said about Anakin.  HE could not make him evil with out a reason, every thing had to be justified.  Joining the dark side to save his wife? ha!


My answer - Obi-Wan was helping Luke and the others escape. He held off Vader and distracted everyone. There was no more chance of escape for him. Instead of being captured and tortured, he let himself be struck down. He was old anway, and probably still felt at least some guilt over Darth Vader. He died so he could die with dignity and still aid Luke. His time was past.
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#3 User is offline   DarthTherion Icon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (andy_k_250 @ Jun 15 2005, 06:42 PM)
My answer - Obi-Wan was helping Luke and the others escape. He held off Vader and distracted everyone. There was no more chance of escape for him. Instead of being captured and tortured, he let himself be struck down. He was old anway, and probably still felt at least some guilt over Darth Vader. He died so he could die with dignity and still aid Luke. His time was past.


Good answer, andy. One might also argue that "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" means joining with the Force, which unites the deceased Jedi with the energy of the universe. Of course, it's not the kind of "power" that mortals envision.

In ROTJ, Luke is pretty angry about being lied to. His first words to Obi-wan's ghost are, "Why didn't you tell me?" When Yoda says it's unfortunate that Vader told the boy about his lineage, Luke says, "Unfortuante? That I know the truth?" And Yoda replies that it was actually unfortunate that Luke rushed to confront him, that he was not *ready* for the truth.

Luke's outrage about the lie doesn't last very long, because I think he understands how necessary the lie was. It would have really had an adverse effect on his psyche had Ben told him about his father right from the beginning. It's said that telling someone a truth that he is not ready to accept is the same as lying to him.

This post has been edited by DarthTherion: 15 June 2005 - 06:33 PM

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#4 User is offline   darth_newmacer Icon

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 03:58 AM

Obi-Wan let himself die, mainly for the purpose of the script. While Lucas was filming ANH, he decided OB1 had nothing to do after they get to the Rebel base, so he reluctantly decided to kill him off for "effect" I guees for lack of a better term...

He lied to Luke because (and lets recap here...) a. Luke barely knows Obi b. He JUST now learned about his father's glory days as a pilot in the Clone wars c. He probably knows nothing if at all anything truthful about his father up to this point, but beleives whole-heartedly that he was a good guy! and last but not least d. Luke doesn't know anything about the Force, the Sith, Darth Vader/Sidious, Master Yoda, Padme, Commander Cody, Jake Lloyd, Jar Jar Binks, Qui-Gon, Samuel L. Jackson, Pod racing, Mustafar, CGI, Palpatine,horrible films that are hyped up for almost thirty years, Count Dooku, horrible romance scenes, that C3-PO was constructed by a slave, or that there was going to be an Episode 1-3, thus explaining all these thing to a twenty year old boy who has very little knowledge would be utterly dumb..... The only prblem is that point-of-view bullshit he later makes up, instead he should have used the wise points Yoda made ergo he wasn't ready mentally to have a drastic image change of his father/unknown sister....

Obi-Wans very wise indeed, but Lucas is not.... and there lies the problem!

This post has been edited by darth_newmacer: 19 July 2005 - 03:59 AM

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#5 User is offline   Casual Fan Icon

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 09:08 AM

You are thinking of the Prequels. If the Prequel story is taken as "canon", everything Obi Wan says about Vader is a lie or close to it, in both his recountings in ANH and ROTJ, particularly the part and him being "a good man".

Discard the prequels, and the only lie is that Vader killed Luke's father, not that Vader is Luke's father. Something of a white lie in the circumstances, and something the Prequels done right could actually have justified further.

Is it so certain that Obi Wan let Vader kill him? Again I think the duel is being judged according to all the acrobatic stuff you see in the Prequels. Vader may have won fair and square. Remember Obi Wan was surrounded by storm troopers and wasn't going anywhere.

Lucas IMHO overused the force ghost stuff in the next two movies. Luke recalling Obi Wan's voice, giving him the sort of advice he would have given him while he was alive, was fine. If Lucas had limited it to that, then Obi Wan really would have become more powerful in death, by being imprinted in Luke's memory and by Luke trying to live up the the memory. Having an actual ghost went way to far and I suggested elsewhere that maybe they should have been treated as hallucinations by Luke.

In real life, its pretty clear to me that Lucas was making up the "Star Wars" series as he went along. If he really had a trilogy plotted out, let alone a six part series, Obi Wan probably would have not lied to Luke in ANH (he might have been evasive, however), and he may well have not been killed.
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#6 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 07:27 PM

""Lucas IMHO overused the force ghost stuff in the next two movies. Luke recalling Obi Wan's voice, giving him the sort of advice he would have given him while he was alive, was fine. If Lucas had limited it to that, then Obi Wan really would have become more powerful in death, by being imprinted in Luke's memory and by Luke trying to live up the the memory. Having an actual ghost went way to far and I suggested elsewhere that maybe they should have been treated as hallucinations by Luke.""

I like how you said 'imprinted in Luke's memory'. That is awesome. I agree to some extent. It would have been cooler to do it that way instead. (probably)
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