Chefelf.com Night Life: 91 Counter Arguments to Chef Elf's Thoughts - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

Star Wars Fan Convention

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

91 Counter Arguments to Chef Elf's Thoughts Reasons 11-20

#1 User is offline   Storm Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 374
  • Joined: 25-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:Canada

Posted 14 June 2005 - 11:59 PM

Well, here goes. First off, I must say that you shouldn't expect anything witty from me because Chef's new reasons to hate ROTS were just uninspiring. Where did his nitpick magic from AOTC go? I think the pressure of making good reasons to hate the movie is starting to get to him.

By the way, I was too lazy to do any Physics research.

11. Count Dooku
From my understanding, you have two problems with this scene:
a. Having a lightsaber duel at the beginning of a movie.
b. The remarks exchanged between Anakin and Dooku were "weak".

Evidentally, Chef would have prefered extra love scenes between Padme and Anakin as opposed to a light saber duel. I just don't see what the problem is. They needed to show that Anakin was much more powerful than in AOTC, and I think the most effective way to do this was for him to kill the man who cut off his arm. You should also notice the similarity with ROTJ. In ROTJ, Luke uses his anger/hatred to put Vader at his mercy. Anakin did the same thing with Count Dooku. The difference is that Anakin killed an unarmed prisoner and Luke did not. It was a test from Palpatine to see if Anakin would be a worthy apprentice. Anakin's willingness to kill Dooku showed that he was.

As for the remarks exchanged during the duel, I'm uncertain as to what you were expecting. I don't recall "Good. Double the pride, twice the fall." to be a cliche. Let's look at the Obi-Wan/Vader duel from ANH. I've taken the liberty of hilighting lines which were most likely said in other movies involving a "duel".

VADER: I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The
circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.

BEN: Only a master of evil, Darth.

VADER: Your powers are weak, old man.

BEN: You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more
powerful than you can possibly imagine.


Just accept the fact that Star Wars has never really had good dialogue.

12. Obi-Wan's Lack of Injury
In TPM, Obi-Wan falls off several platforms while dueling Darth Maul and lands on his back. Luke falls down a bottomless pit in ESB, and at the speed he entered the tube at he would be smacking the walls at an uncontrollable rate. In both cases Obi-Wan and Luke seemed unharmed.

Obi-Wan getting flung across the room would hurt, and if he hit his head it would probably knock him unconscious. If the platform had crushed Obi-Wan's legs, we probably would have heard some "bone snapping sound". The platform was lowered onto him quite slowly, and the intention of doing so seemed to be to prevent Obi-Wan from moving, rather than crushing him.

The fall Luke experienced in ESB should have busted his neck, legs, arms, etc. The speed he entered the tube from the pit at would have made his ride from the tube far more vicious than the seemingly enjoyable "waterslide ride" he took down to the weather vane.

ESB set a standard for a pain tolerance. Obi-Wan's situation was far less severe, therefore you must accept it unless you don't accept Luke's fall in ESB. If that's the case, Chef has an extra nitpick to add to ESB.

Oh, and even if the platform cut the circulation off to Obi-Wan's legs, he would have regained it by the time he became conscious again.

13. "I shouldn't have done that..."
I'm baffled as to the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that he should have said something more dramatic for killing someone? It seems to make sense to me. Anakin wanted revenge since Dooku cut off his arm. I think he says "I shouldn't have done that..." because he knows that a Jedi should never kill an unarmed prisoner, yet he is disturbed because he actually wanted to kill him.

14. Gravity? Which Way Is Down In Space?
When I saw the movie, I had assumed that The Invisible Hand had entered the atmosphere of Coruscant and the force of gravity from Coruscant, along with the loss of the "stablizers", was making everything fly downwards. I have no idea what the "stablizers" are, but I assumed that it was a system partially responsible for the artificial gravity on the ship.

I'll say Chef is right of this one, but it's not something that bothered me. The voice of the Neimoidian Captain on the other hand....

15. Vacuum of Space?
I don't think it is fair to examine this because it has never happened before in human experience. As Chef admitted, some scientists hypothesize you could survive for about 10-15 seconds. This is the approximate time the bridge is open to space. Palpatine, Anakin, and Obi-Wan are all well trained in the force. I don't see why they would be incapable of holding on for 10 seconds. The other people in the bridge were either strapped in or flew out into space.

Also, the electrostaff Grievous throws is capable of deflecting a lightsaber strike. That is an indication to me that it is quite strong. And if you didn't notice, Grievous can throw Obi-Wan more than 20 meters across a floor. I can imagine he threw that staff at the window pretty fucking hard.

But anyhow, Chef has two more nitpicks to add to ESB.
1. When the Falcon lands in the Space Slug, it is unrealistic that Han, Chewie, and Leia could survive since they are being exposed to that coldness of space at 2.725 Kelvin (454.77° Fahrenheit, -270.42° Celsius). I highly doubt the Space Slug generates exactly the necessary heat (ie.room temperature conditions) for the trio to survive.

2. In the second room of the Carbon Freeze Chamber, Vader starts launching projectiles at Luke until he breaks the glass and Luke is instantly blown out. Given the force he was blown out at, I find it impossible to believe Luke could climb back up into the room. And if you look carefully, he is seemingly climbing up an invisible ladder.

16. "Another Happy Landing"
I had assumed that the people who were present in the control tower were clone troopers. Earlier on in the movie, a clone pilot is in trouble and Anakin wants to help him, however Obi-Wan insists "He is doing his job". The clone troopers did their job in ensuring that the remainder of The Invisible Hand landed. Yes, a control tower did get taken out, but their job was to make sure Palpatine landed safely. The landing is "happy" for Obi-Wan because Anakin, Palpatine, and himself survived a seemingly impossible situation. The clones were just doing their job, so to Obi-Wan they were of no concern.

And speaking of which, Chef has a Nitpick to correct from ANH.

"He was the best starpilot in the galaxy..."
Obi-Wan's line about Anakin still remains in the 2004 edition. I thought that this line would surely be removed, but it is still there. What I want to know is how Obi-Wan could back this up? Is he referring to Anakin's glorified go-kart race on Tatooine in The Phantom Menace or the Wacky-Doodle Yukfest when Anakin crashed the Nabooian fighter into the droid control ship? This line has very little basis in what has happened in the Prequel Trilogy so far. Anakin's going to have to do some pretty fancy flying in Episode III to back up this quote.

Anakin did do some fancy flying. The way he got the buzz droids off of Obi-Wan's ship required expert piloting. Furthermore, he landed half of a space craft! Name one other person in the galaxy capable of pulling something like that off.

17. The Millennium Falcon
In the OT, the Falcon is refered to as a "piece of junk" and a "bucket of bolts". This gives me the impression that it was an older ship. It's not unreasonable for it to have existed then.

Personally, I never saw it in the four times I viewed the movie, so how can I get mad at something nearly impossible to notice? It was probably just added for people who are obsessed with paying attention to every little detail, like Chef.

18. Anakin and Obi-Wan's Chummy Antics
Anakin saved Obi-Wan's life. Would you not expect him to be at least a little bit thankful? And the polite thing on Anakin's part would be to compliment his master for the training he provided. Undoubtedly Chef would have prefered a response from Anakin such as "Yep, I'm the best Jedi ever."

Anakin is older and more mature, so why is it difficult to believe throughout the Clone Wars their friendship improved? You need to accept the fact that things do actually occur inbetween films. I should remind you that between ANH and ESB, the viewer is forced to believe that "something" occured between Han and Leia which has made the two magically in love. In ANH, Leia could have cared less about Han.

19. Anakin and Padme in the Shadows
Then she explains to the audience, once again, why it's bad that they are married so that you can be reminded of all that Jedi nonsense about not falling in love that they made up in Attack of the Clones.

I should remind you that George Lucas is the story teller and not you. What is so nonsensical about a Jedi not being allowed to fall in love? Did you watch ROTS at all? Anakin's love for Padme was the reason why the Jedi practically became extinct!

Padme then tells Anakin that she is pregnant. Anakin does a half-assed job of pretending that he's happy about this and then, after realizing he's done such a poor job, tries to make himself sound better by lying and saying, "This is the happiest moment of my life."

I'm pretty sure that was the point of the scene. Anakin is visibly disturbed by the news of the pregnancy, and struggled to hide his feelings.

This was a good scene between the two. The scene on the balcony, however, is totally unecessary.

20. PAD-UH-MAY
This is another thing I never really noticed and is really insignificant. Maybe Anakin thought it was cute to mispronounce her name. Investing any effort into this nitpick is absurd.

But since Chef brought up the mispronounciation of Han and Leia in ESB and ANH respectively, Chef now has another nitpick to add to both ANH and ESB. Yeeee haaa!

Until next week folks.

This post has been edited by Storm: 15 June 2005 - 12:01 AM

0

#2 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

  • Wow, my avatar changed.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,898
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Location:Err... here I guess.
  • Interests:The Interests of a Normal Teenager:<br />-Movies<br />-Things that are awesome<br />-Girls<br />-(Good) Tv shows<br />-Doing evil stuff the good way<br />-Videogames<br />-Hangin' with my friends
  • Country:Mexico

Posted 15 June 2005 - 12:12 AM

Good way to counter them, Storm. It was a good job and I agree with you. smile.gif
(But I agree with Chef's reasons 12, 14 and 20 and most of them are hilarious.)

Now prepare for some bashing from some users that love the OT, but don't worry I won't bash you.

But, do you really think Chef is going to write the nitpicks you posted for the OT?
Sorry, you won't be seeing a smartass sig here. Try with the next poster.
0

#3 User is offline   Renegade Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 460
  • Joined: 19-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 15 June 2005 - 02:09 AM

Like I said, while Chef's nitpicks were mostly true nitpicks in outlining the falty parts of the story in his previous reviews (specially of Special edition), in this one its a lot more of his own opinion on what he just "dislikes".
0

#4 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:49 AM

Just a couple of things that I need to say in defense of Chefelf.

QUOTE
Evidentally, Chef would have prefered extra love scenes between Padme and Anakin as opposed to a light saber duel. I just don't see what the problem is. They needed to show that Anakin was much more powerful than in AOTC, and I think the most effective way to do this was for him to kill the man who cut off his arm. You should also notice the similarity with ROTJ. In ROTJ, Luke uses his anger/hatred to put Vader at his mercy. Anakin did the same thing with Count Dooku. The difference is that Anakin killed an unarmed prisoner and Luke did not. It was a test from Palpatine to see if Anakin would be a worthy apprentice. Anakin's willingness to kill Dooku showed that he was.


The whole point, as I believe, is not exactly the duel itself, but rather the timing of the duel. Star Wars never began with 23 minutes of action before and having a character which apparently played a mjor role in the pervious movie to get knocked off that easily in the first fifteen minutes is just lame.

Also, the dialogue was vastly worse in this duel than that of ANH. While I didn't think that the dialogue was all that great, but it had some mystery and meaning behind it. Rather than just simply lame remarks and meaningless insults thrown at each other. This is supposed to be a battle between a bunch of mystical warriors with mystic abilities and philosophies. Instead, it appears that they're really nothing more than a bunch of 17th century swordsmen settling disputes by fighting.

QUOTE
I'm baffled as to the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that he should have said something more dramatic for killing someone? It seems to make sense to me. Anakin wanted revenge since Dooku cut off his arm. I think he says "I shouldn't have done that..." because he knows that a Jedi should never kill an unarmed prisoner, yet he is disturbed because he actually wanted to kill him.


The point, my good friend, is that the apperant treatment of this deed of killing someone delibrately and intenionally and simply giving a minor bit of regret with a line like that is, quite frankly, stupid. I've said things that I believe I should not have said, or not need to have said, and done petty little things that I had a nagging through that I shouldn't have done. But they were all small and forgettable things. Treating the killing of a seemlingly important individual like Count Dooku (if I'm not mistaken, the Jedi wanted him alive) was NOT one of those moments!

QUOTE
When I saw the movie, I had assumed that The Invisible Hand had entered the atmosphere of Coruscant and the force of gravity from Coruscant, along with the loss of the "stablizers", was making everything fly downwards. I have no idea what the "stablizers" are, but I assumed that it was a system partially responsible for the artificial gravity on the ship.


While this is not so much an attempted rebuttual (more of a comment, really) I think that the artifical gravity control wouldn't really be refered to as a 'stablizer', although I'm not sure about that, it's more of a hunch. Anyway, regarding the pulling of the ship downwards, all I can say is, if you're outside the gravitional pull of a planet, you can't be drawn down on it for any reason.

Also, if artifical gravity was to be destroyed on a space station or ship, what would happen is that everyone and everything that isn't nailed down will start flying around and you'd be in a zero gravity situation. The game Jedi Knight: Outcast had a scenario like this and quite frankly, was very annoying... and fun at the same time! biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I'll say Chef is right of this one, but it's not something that bothered me. The voice of the Neimoidian Captain on the other hand....


Cnsidering that this irratated you, then I'd better watch out for it when I watch movie!

QUOTE
I don't think it is fair to examine this because it has never happened before in human experience. As Chef admitted, some scientists hypothesize you could survive for about 10-15 seconds. This is the approximate time the bridge is open to space. Palpatine, Anakin, and Obi-Wan are all well trained in the force. I don't see why they would be incapable of holding on for 10 seconds. The other people in the bridge were either strapped in or flew out into space.

Also, the electrostaff Grievous throws is capable of deflecting a lightsaber strike. That is an indication to me that it is quite strong. And if you didn't notice, Grievous can throw Obi-Wan more than 20 meters across a floor. I can imagine he threw that staff at the window pretty fucking hard.


Astronaughts keep their space suits on all the time when they're in outerspace, plus, simply because some scientists believe that could survive for a full 10-15 seconds, it doesn't mean that it won't affect you entirely. Remember, you can survive quite a while without food, but that doesn't mean you'll look find and dandy after two weeks without eating a morsel. Keep that in mind when you're talking about survival. You may live, but surviving completely intact is something else. Also, I really don't think that the force could really have protected them in this case. the force didn't protect them against the poison gas in TPM (the held their breaths) and they still needed many equipment to aid them as they went on.

Regarding General Grievous's staff. Just because it is capable of deflecting a lightsaber strike does not mean it is that strong, only that it is designed with parrying lightsaber attacks in mind. There are plenty of other factors that need to be considered here. Grievous may be strong, and the staff may have a decent about of density, but throwing it with enough force to shatter a ships portal window is something else entirely.

Remember that the ship was intended as a warship and to be out in outer space, and as such, it needs to be pretty damn strong. The canopies on modern day fighter jets are designed to stop 23mm cannon shots and the average strength of the windows on a bulletproof car are also pretty fierce. I would say that the strength of the port windoes in Star Wars would have be far stronger than any of the above mentioned examples, especially with their level of technology!

QUOTE
I had assumed that the people who were present in the control tower were clone troopers. Earlier on in the movie, a clone pilot is in trouble and Anakin wants to help him, however Obi-Wan insists "He is doing his job". The clone troopers did their job in ensuring that the remainder of The Invisible Hand landed. Yes, a control tower did get taken out, but their job was to make sure Palpatine landed safely. The landing is "happy" for Obi-Wan because Anakin, Palpatine, and himself survived a seemingly impossible situation. The clones were just doing their job, so to Obi-Wan they were of no concern.


Oh yeah, he got them down alive and safely... but at what cost? I never watched the movie so I don't know the exact amount of destruction around, but this brings up a really lame point in all hollywood movies... why do utterly destructive landings and actions by 'heroes' never face any negative criticism or demands for reparation?

Can anyone tell me how much damage was done, please? If it's too much, then I easily summise that saying 'another happy landing' should have been 'what a big fucking mess, but at least Palpatine is alive!'

QUOTE
In the OT, the Falcon is refered to as a "piece of junk" and a "bucket of bolts". This gives me the impression that it was an older ship. It's not unreasonable for it to have existed then.

Personally, I never saw it in the four times I viewed the movie, so how can I get mad at something nearly impossible to notice? It was probably just added for people who are obsessed with paying attention to every little detail, like Chef.


Chefelf's problem with this is not that they simply included a correlian freighter on it, it's just that GL apparently has an obession with putting in a million different reminders of the OT in the movie. That being said, he also stated that after seeing Boba Fett, Greedo, Chewbacca, the Tantive IV and other stuff, he has little doubt that it really IS the Falcon!

For me, however, I just don't care about anything anymore. I'm only here to chat and criticise Star Wars for fun.
0

#5 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:50 AM

QUOTE
Anakin saved Obi-Wan's life. Would you not expect him to be at least a little bit thankful? And the polite thing on Anakin's part would be to compliment his master for the training he provided. Undoubtedly Chef would have prefered a response from Anakin such as "Yep, I'm the best Jedi ever."

Anakin is older and more mature, so why is it difficult to believe throughout the Clone Wars their friendship improved? You need to accept the fact that things do actually occur inbetween films. I should remind you that between ANH and ESB, the viewer is forced to believe that "something" occured between Han and Leia which has made the two magically in love. In ANH, Leia could have cared less about Han.


The first part can be answered by saying that Anakin would have saved Obi-Wan's life and vice versa several times over. Remember that aweful elevator scene in AOTC when Obi-Wan was trying to get Anakin to calm down and commented that 'he hasn't seen him this tense since they fell in the nest of gundarks' and the nAnakin replies by saying that you (Obi-Wan) fell in and he saved him.

As it should have been, Obi-Wan and Anakin have been around each other for a good 10 years and have had plenty of time to develop a lifelong, unbreakable friendship. Yet it was clear that they couldn't stand each other at all, and Anakin's continous complaining and weeping over Obi-Wan's supposed jealousy and 'holding him back' and what not would have us believe that they didn't have a friendly relationship at all during that time, despite George Lucas's attempts at making us think so.

What is really there to make us believe that something happened that their relationship improved that dramatically during the course of the war? Anakin and Obi-Wan have been fighting bad guys on a very intense scale (at least, I think they have) meaning that the last three years would not have done much at all.

As for Anakin becoming far more mature and wiser... I can buy that. I changed quite a bit from my 19th to 21st birthdays, but the change wasn't THAT dramatic that. Many of my friends at college did say that I was a lot better in my senior year than my freshman year, but then again, 99.99% of ALL of us changed dramatically. Ironically, the biggest change ever was during the summer of 2003! (I really noticed a huge difference bettween the sophomore year and the junior year).

But enough about me, we're talking about Anakin here. Anakin's behavioral problems weren't something that could have been solved 'by themselves' in two or three years. A problem that Anakin would have had would have taken much longer and would clearly have had much 'reside' of his psychotic self earlier. Sometimes it take a lifetime to have such stuff removed.

Also, you bring up Han and Leia between ANH and ESB. That is, in my opinion, not really a valid example. The whole relationship between the two never existed before that time and they were complete strangers. In fact, Han never wanted to rescue her and did it only for the reward. It wasn't until the end of the movie when he changed his mind and became part of the rebellion. This altered her perception on Han dramatically and they had a good deal of time to know each other during the 'inter movie' years. The same cannot be said for the PT as the Anakin and Obi-Wan would have already known each otehr for more than decade before they finally became friends?

QUOTE
I should remind you that George Lucas is the story teller and not you. What is so nonsensical about a Jedi not being allowed to fall in love? Did you watch ROTS at all? Anakin's love for Padme was the reason why the Jedi practically became extinct!


And that's exactly why the whole plot doesn't make sense. It wasn't supposed to be about a mentally and emotionally unstable individual who was willing to murder millions of people and plunge and entire galaxy simply because he thought that Padme might die if he does. It was supposed to be about a power struggle inside Anakin as he wanted to gain more power, but that lead him into the dark side.

Lucas screwed everything up because he couldn't think of a really good way to do it, so he rather would have turned the whole thing into a ten second plot device and use the pervious two movies for special effects masturbation and keep the storyline minimal.

QUOTE
This is another thing I never really noticed and is really insignificant. Maybe Anakin thought it was cute to mispronounce her name. Investing any effort into this nitpick is absurd.

But since Chef brought up the mispronounciation of Han and Leia in ESB and ANH respectively, Chef now has another nitpick to add to both ANH and ESB. Yeeee haaa!


My relatives give me cute sounding nickname and other childish stuff. It doesn't annoy me, but it would really be more adult like if such sillyness was abandoned. Do they call Anakin 'Annie' in this movie?

QUOTE
Until next week folks.


And I'll be there!!! devil.gif
0

#6 User is offline   Private Zod Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: 18-March 04

Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Jun 15 2005, 07:50 AM)
The first part can be answered by saying that Anakin would have saved Obi-Wan's life and vice versa several times over. Remember that aweful elevator scene in

As for Anakin becoming far more mature and wiser... I can buy that. I changed quite a bit from my 19th to 21st birthdays, but the change wasn't THAT dramatic that. Many of my friends at college did say that I was a lot better in my senior year than my freshman year, but then again, 99.99% of ALL of us changed dramatically. Ironically, the biggest change ever was during the summer of 2003! (I really noticed a huge difference bettween the sophomore year and the junior year).

But enough about me, we're talking about Anakin here. Anakin's behavioral problems weren't something that could have been solved 'by themselves' in two or three years. A problem that Anakin would have had would have taken much longer and would clearly have had much 'reside' of his psychotic self earlier. Sometimes it take a lifetime to have such stuff removed.



I have to disagree with you regarding the "maturation" of Anakin between AOTC and ROTS. Unlike before AOTC when he was going on little bs missions and being henpecked by OBiWan, the 3 years following the AOTC he was in a war which tends to harden some. I would expect after leading armies, being in death-defying situations and watching friends die in combat, one can mature very rapidly. I had friends that served in Iraq and the difference between before the went and after they went was night and day.
0

#7 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:33 AM

I guess you're right. War can do dramatic things to an individual, and not all of them are good.

Also, a college profession of mine once told me about an individual he knew who joined the KGB back in the soviet days and saw action. In one year, he physically and psychologically changed dramamtically. So I suppose that you do have a valid point.

But there's something else that needs to be considered in this regard is that Anakin was being trained as a Jedi, and that job requires a huge deal of devotion and decipline of all descriptions. Training for ten years on something like that is NOT the same as simply living out your life in a carefree environment and suddenly being recruited to fight in a major war.

Anakin should have been a remarkably 'mature' individual well BEFORE AOTC, and this is combined with the fact that he was a very well adjusted kid without any real emotional or truamatic memories or attitude.
0

#8 User is offline   Trumble Trickly Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 07-December 04
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 15 June 2005 - 09:06 AM

There is one major flaw with your counter arguments and it is this: You backup every counter argument with something from the OT that can be nitpicked. Where does it say that the OT is flawless and cannot be nitpicked? The things you state from the OT are just as true and just as at fault.

Try backing up your counter arguments with things from ROTS. It's not that easy, is it? wink.gif
0

#9 User is offline   Giff Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 28-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 15 June 2005 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE
I've taken the liberty of hilighting lines which were most likely said in other movies involving a "duel".

......

BEN: You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more
powerful than you can possibly imagine.



C'mon...what "other movie" are you watching? Hot Shots: Part Deux ?


How many times could that line possible come up in other films? That is not a cliché line. Hell, thats the type of line that spawns future clichés if anything.

This post has been edited by Giff: 15 June 2005 - 12:14 PM

0

#10 User is offline   Private Zod Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: 18-March 04

Posted 15 June 2005 - 04:15 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Jun 15 2005, 08:33 AM)
Anakin should have been a remarkably 'mature' individual well BEFORE AOTC, and this is combined with the fact that he was a very well adjusted kid without any real emotional or truamatic memories or attitude.


That I agree with. The inconsistencies between each PT and the OT are glaring and this is another example.
0

#11 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE
There is one major flaw with your counter arguments and it is this: You backup every counter argument with something from the OT that can be nitpicked. Where does it say that the OT is flawless and cannot be nitpicked? The things you state from the OT are just as true and just as at fault.


Well, I personally believe that there are plenty of flaws in the OT as well. No movie or story or anything is perfect, and all of them are subject to critizism and complaints. There will always be people who think that a certain movie is great, and others who think that the same movie is a load of crap. There's nothing we can do but live with that fact.
0

#12 User is offline   barend Icon

  • Anchor Head Anchor Man
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Crappy News Team
  • Posts: 11,839
  • Joined: 12-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nieuw Holland
  • Interests:The Beers of Western Europe, Cognac, and constantly claiming the world would have been a better place if Napoleon had won.
  • Country:Australia

Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:56 PM

i see i'm not needed here smile.gif
0

#13 User is offline   Paladin Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 780
  • Joined: 29-December 03

Posted 16 June 2005 - 02:21 AM

Nah, you can post whatever you feel like posting! smile.gif
0

#14 User is offline   julie123 Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 139
  • Joined: 25-May 05
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:32 AM

[quote=Storm,Jun 15 2005, 04:59 AM]




Quote

12. Obi-Wan's Lack of Injury
In TPM, Obi-Wan falls off several platforms while dueling Darth Maul and lands on his back. Luke falls down a bottomless pit in ESB, and at the speed he entered the tube at he would be smacking the walls at an uncontrollable rate. In both cases Obi-Wan and Luke seemed unharmed.

Obi-Wan getting flung across the room would hurt, and if he hit his head it would probably knock him unconscious. If the platform had crushed Obi-Wan's legs, we probably would have heard some "bone snapping sound". The platform was lowered onto him quite slowly, and the intention of doing so seemed to be to prevent Obi-Wan from moving, rather than crushing him.

The fall Luke experienced in ESB should have busted his neck, legs, arms, etc. The speed he entered the tube from the pit at would have made his ride from the tube far more vicious than the seemingly enjoyable "waterslide ride" he took down to the weather vane.

ESB set a standard for a pain tolerance. Obi-Wan's situation was far less severe, therefore you must accept it unless you don't accept Luke's fall in ESB. If that's the case, Chef has an extra nitpick to add to ESB.

Oh, and even if the platform cut the circulation off to Obi-Wan's legs, he would have regained it by the time he became conscious again.



Sorry, I agree with Chef on this one. We saw Mace cut off Fett's head in Clones, but we didn't get to see or hear the ker plunk so what makes you think we would hear Obi Wan's snapping bones in ROTS? This scene reminded me of when Padme fell at least 40 feet of that ship in Clones on to that hard sand. She was unconsious for about all of 40 seconds, and then jumped up running like an Olympic runner with no sign of concussion or injury. Oh and if that platform had cut off the circulation to Obi-Wan's legs, even if you are right and he would have regained it by the time he became conscious again, wouldn't you expect him to at least wobble abit when he got up and started walking again? I would, but then I am not George Lucas

Quote

16. "Another Happy Landing"
I had assumed that the people who were present in the control tower were clone troopers. Earlier on in the movie, a clone pilot is in trouble and Anakin wants to help him, however Obi-Wan insists "He is doing his job". The clone troopers did their job in ensuring that the remainder of The Invisible Hand landed. Yes, a control tower did get taken out, but their job was to make sure Palpatine landed safely. The landing is "happy" for Obi-Wan because Anakin, Palpatine, and himself survived a seemingly impossible situation. The clones were just doing their job, so to Obi-Wan they were of no concern.


This seemed like a pretty callous remark to make to me. It's alright to kill the clones because they were just doing their jobs? Would you say the same if they were American soldiers in Iraq? Or were the clones expendable because they were not human and therefore expendable?

Killing clones or human beings in this manner, should always call for regret and to state otherwise, is worthy of contempt.


Quote

Anakin did do some fancy flying. The way he got the buzz droids off of Obi-Wan's ship required expert piloting. Furthermore, he landed half of a space craft! Name one other person in the galaxy capable of pulling something like that off.


Again, I'm with Chef here. It would be hard to name another person in the galazy capable of landing half a space craft, not because another person couldn't do it, but Lucas DOESN'T give us any names of other pilots, so this is a pretty redundant point. However, Hans Solo comes to mind as someone who could pull this off.


Quote

I should remind you that George Lucas is the story teller and not you. What is so nonsensical about a Jedi not being allowed to fall in love? Did you watch ROTS at all? Anakin's love for Padme was the reason why the Jedi practically became extinct!


The reason it is nonsensical is BECAUSE Lucas is telling the story. Did you watch A New Hope, TESB and ROTJ? The biggest, baddest villian in the galaxy, turned to the dark side to protect Padme? Vader, was just a love sick fool? Oh, the humanity, the humanity!!


Quote

20. PAD-UH-MAY
This is another thing I never really noticed and is really insignificant. Maybe Anakin thought it was cute to mispronounce her name. Investing any effort into this nitpick is absurd.


Sorry, if my husband, significant etc other kept mispronouncing my name, I'd bitch slap him. I mean, this is the guy who could programme a droid to speak 6 million languages, but he can't pronounce his own wife's name correctly? Come on!

And since you have nitpicked the nitpick, you have obviously invested effort. Perhaps your nit pick is the absurb one?

Quote

Until next week folks.


Well okay, but please no more nit picks just for the sake of it, at least make valid points
0

#15 User is offline   Thracozaag Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 14-June 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 16 June 2005 - 07:02 AM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Jun 15 2005, 05:06 PM)
Well, I personally believe that there are plenty of flaws in the OT as well. No movie or story or anything is perfect, and all of them are subject to critizism and complaints. There will always be people who think that a certain movie is great, and others who think that the same movie is a load of crap. There's nothing we can do but live with that fact.


There are times. however, (such in the case with the PT) when something is SO undeniably a load of crap and egregious, it's painfully obvious to everyone save the most ardent of apologists/justifiers.

koji
0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size