[Mnesymone]

Wow.
1) The militant groups are equally made up of the more liberal sunni and the conservative shi'ite, which seeing as the shi'ite are in a minority is telling against them.
2) There are very few Bathists left, the Bath party was created by the U.S.A. and the Bathists did not posess genuine dictatorial powers between the Gulf War and the more recent engagement.
3) A Freedom fighter does not necessarily want democracy, especially when the democracy would be problematic and is being forced upon them by the hamfisted American occupation.
4) The militant groups, though they are targeting civilians on occasion, are largely targeting the Iraqi security forces and the Coalition occupation force.
5) Your claim that former Bathists are islamic fundamentalists is almost totally wrong - Saddam Hussein led a secular administration, and most Bathists are largely secular - that was what the Americans wanted when Saddam was put in power.
6) The Americans have the nerve to call the groups that were repressed under Saddam Hussein and their own occupation 'insurgents and Bathist supporters.' A bit hypocritical.

[Slade]

The strip never really was funny, and Bill's just a tool anyway (he once gave Bill Watterson shit for not complying to the norm, in regards to Calvin and Hobbes' weekend strip format).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that just black lists him right there, doesn't it? Though I don't see the Family Circus logo on backpacks, T-shirts, and kindergartener's lunchboxes, so I don't know what that guy was on about.

But yeah, Family Circus! T3h sux0rz!

...a bit hypocrtical...

Well duh! Aptly mentioned in a thread called propaganda.

Despondant: The left needs a voice from somewhere. The mass media is all owned by conservatives and reactionarys (greedy billion dollar multinational and conglomerate corporations). I'd be much less inclined to spout off about that if every sign from the right wasn't pointing toward the establishment of facism. Conservatism, I can tolerate to a degree. They at least aren't trying to bring back the 1700s with an iron fist and Thought Police.

[Renegade]

Wow.
1) The militant groups are equally made up of the more liberal sunni and the conservative shi'ite, which seeing as the shi'ite are in a minority is telling against them.
2) There are very few Bathists left, the Bath party was created by the U.S.A. and the Bathists did not posess genuine dictatorial powers between the Gulf War and the more recent engagement.
3) A Freedom fighter does not necessarily want democracy, especially when the democracy would be problematic and is being forced upon them by the hamfisted American occupation.
4) The militant groups, though they are targeting civilians on occasion, are largely targeting the Iraqi security forces and the Coalition occupation force.
5) Your claim that former Bathists are islamic fundamentalists is almost totally wrong - Saddam Hussein led a secular administration, and most Bathists are largely secular - that was what the Americans wanted when Saddam was put in power.
6) The Americans have the nerve to call the groups that were repressed under Saddam Hussein and their own occupation 'insurgents and Bathist supporters.' A bit hypocritical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1) The Shi'ite are the majority in Iraq..
2) The Baath party wasn't "created" by the USA.... it was supported at times by them though in the 80s..
3) If a freedom fighter doesn't want democracy then what does he want? Another dictatorship? Wouldn't that just be a fighter than and not a FREEDOM fighter? And how would a democracy be "problematic"?
4) They've killed a lot more civilians than they have Coalition forces.... and isn't killing Iraqi security forces just as bad? These are people who simply want to train up and become strong enough so that America gets out faster and the streets of Iraq become safer. A lot of the "Iraqi security forces" they terrorize are police and the such as well, not para military forces.
5) There's two types of insurgents, one is former baath members and the other is terrorists (islamic fundementalists). You can tell the difference by who uses suicide bombing.
6) Well most of the resistance is coming from former baath members and mostly sunni's. Sure there's the occassional shi'ite group too but those are mostly extremely radical groups or have come from outside of the country.

[Slade]

A freedom fighter wants the imperialist forces to get the hell out of his country and stop selling his nation's businesses to foreign corporations. Think Ghandi, maybe.

[Renegade]

So your saying that any individual is fighting against an outside country, even if the individual is seeking his own tyranny, is a freedom fighter?

And we will get out of the country as soon as the insurents die out..

This post has been edited by Renegade: 19 June 2005 - 02:42 AM

[Mnesymone]

So, you're going to stop when they stop and they're going to stop when you stop.

I suppose it's fairly obvious that you can get locked in for a very long time with that kind of mentality.

Besides - the Americans are accidentally doing just as much civilian damage as the insurgent groups are doing deliberately.

[Renegade]

The difference is yes we are killing civilians, but that is accidental rather than deliberate targeting of civilians. There's actually quite a difference...

We'll stop when the insurgents die out ya, which probably won't be ever since fundementalists have ruined the middle east in each country they have penetrated so this probably won't be different. I hope for the general Iraq population's sake that they finally end up dying off / giving up so we can pull out and they get there own country running for once.

[floppydisk]

So are you for or against the Iraq war?

I personally don't see any reason for it. Bush apparently wanted to take out Saddam for whatever reason, and he figured "Hell, as long as we're over there, let's take out a dictator who I don't like."

I'm not saying that Saddam was a good guy, cause he killed lots of people, but I'm saying that WMDs were not the reason, they were the excuse.

[Al Creed]

Well, that just black lists him right there, doesn't it? Though I don't see the Family Circus logo on backpacks, T-shirts, and kindergartener's lunchboxes, so I don't know what that guy was on about.

Actually, all the Calvin and Hobbes stickers and T-Shirts you see, are bootlegs. Bill Watter son only produced books, and one calander, and nothing more.

He was nowhere near the merchandising machine Jim Davis is, and I get the impression he never wanted to be in the first place.

[Renegade]

So are you for or against the Iraq war?

I personally don't see any reason for it. Bush apparently wanted to take out Saddam for whatever reason, and he figured "Hell, as long as we're over there, let's take out a dictator who I don't like."

I'm not saying that Saddam was a good guy, cause he killed lots of people, but I'm saying that WMDs were not the reason, they were the excuse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't of done it if i president cause i think its a poor strategic choice in the war on "terror". And ya the democracy shit is bullshit, to make up for the no WMDs.

My problem is people whining that were "imperialistic" and calling the terrorists freedom fighters when in actuality they are worst than us.

[floppydisk]

I think you misunderstand. WMD's were never a reason for the war. They were just an excuse that USA used to save face on the international level. Bush went after him because he didn't like him, and Saddam tried to have his father assisanated.

[Renegade]

Nah... he didn't trust him. It wasn't so much what he had, as opposed to what they thought he could have. Plus every international organization or country believed he had em too so its not like we were the only ones.

[Slade]

And of course, everyone should go to war because of "Well, he might have them...", right?

Al: I know, I was being sarcastic. I think it's ironic how you never see any of that merchandise from FC, but all of the boot legged C&H stuff after the FC guy told Bill to sell out. I believe that's the reason he quit making comics; too much commercialism was trying to attack him.

[Renegade]

And of course, everyone should go to war because of "Well, he might have them...", right?

Al: I know, I was being sarcastic. I think it's ironic how you never see any of that merchandise from FC, but all of the boot legged C&H stuff after the FC guy told Bill to sell out. I believe that's the reason he quit making comics; too much commercialism was trying to attack him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well when every intelligence agency is telling you he has em and has the capability to make more (which violates UN resolutions), perhaps?

[Slade]

That might work if they actually existed... I find it hard to believe that "every intelligence agency" could be so stupid.