[CowboyCurtis]

I'm not assuming anything. The way Obi-Wan says it, "He should have stayed here..." That's very specific. It's Tatooine.

People really have a problem with this. I'm curious. Why? Why is it so bad that Anakin be from Tatooine, too? I mean, many of us are raised where our parents were raised.. generally.

I guess what I'm really wondering is that since we hate the prequels so bad that we HAVE to throw everything out, even the fact that Anakin is from Tatooine...just because it was in these prequels? I think that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater....It could be done effectively. Lucas just didn't do it effectively.

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 14 June 2005 - 03:48 PM

[Casual Fan]

There is a plot problem with Darth Vader coming from Tatooine. Lets assume that Darth Vader does in fact come from Tatooine.

Vader, as Anakin, knows both Owen and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan tries to train him. Owen tries to dissuade him from joining Obi-Wan.

Anakin/ Vader gives birth to a son, Luke. Luke is raised on Tatooine by Owen, with Obi-Wan nearby.

Darth Vader does nothing to stop this or to harass either Luke, Owen, or Obi-Wan, until the plans for the Death Star wind up on Tatooine. Vader then sends down a team of stormtroopers to Tatooine, who kill Owen while looking for the plans. Vader shows no interest in this whatsoever. The stormtroopers also intercept Obi-Wan, then ignore him, then try to stop the smuggler's ship he is leaving Tatooine in, but don't seem to bother reporting this to Vader.

Vader then "senses" Obi-Wan on the Death Star, but only after the Millenium Falcon arrives. His comments in his duel with Obi-Wan make it pretty clear that he had no idea where this guy was until he showed up in the middle of his main battlestation.

Sometime after the Death Star blows up, Vader learns that Luke is his son and has joined the Rebel Alliance. Lucas doesn't explain how this happened. Vader sets an elaborate trap to capture Luke, after discussing it with the Emperor.

Later, we find out that Vader also had a daughter, but had absolultely no idea about this. But he knew enough about his son to try to look for him. Actually this is another plot problem.

Many people have pointed this out. Vader makes no effort to make contact with Owen, despite being close enough to him for Owen to warn Vader about joining Obi-Wan Kenobi. But he is very interested in where both Obi-Wan and his son are. Even if you postulate he didn't know he had a son until sometime between ANH and ESB, as soon as Vader realizes where Obi-Wan is he seeks him out.

But Vader obviously is not interested in Owen at all. However, Owen knew Obi-Wan (he tried to dissuade Vader from joining him, so if Vader is interested in where Obi-Wan is you would think that he would try to contact Owen.

Now this is hard enough to reconcile -and remember we are still dealing just with the OT here- but if Owen comes from Tatooine, and still lives there, it is even more perplexing. Because Vader has no interest in Tatooine at all, even repugnance, even though his spacecraft is orbiting the planet! But if Owen comes from Tatooine, he would have sought Owen out there, if only to find Obi-Wan.

Interestingly when Vader makes an effort to locate his son he identifies him fairly easily.

Its pretty clear from the lack of any reaction from Vader on orbiting Tatooine again that the one planet Anakin is not likely to be from is Tatooine. Remember, Luke did react to returning to Tatooine. But Obi-Wan says that Owen thought that Vader "shouldn't have left here" ie Tatooine.

So already you have a contradiction between ESB/ ROTJ and ANH. You have to either disregard a whole series of actions/ non-actions that Vader too in regards to Tatooine, or one sentence from Obi-Wan in describing Anakin's past, a description that Obi-Wan later admits was not the complete truth. If Anakin comes from Tatooine, that contradicts the OT. If Anakin does not come from Tatooine, that contradicts the OT. However, I think the former is a bigger contradiction.

This post has been edited by Casual Fan: 15 June 2005 - 12:52 PM

[floppydisk]

The troopers didn't ignore Obi, he tricked them. Remember?

Plus, who says Owen knew Obi? Even if he did, Vader doesn't know that he knows Obi, other than one casual meeting they had to discuss the future of Ani. Plus, Vader just might not care about Owen and Beru. But I do think it's stupid to not check that your son is living with his aunt and uncle.

Or even better: O&B aren't related to either Vader or Luke. Aunt and Uncle are titles (at least in America) that you can call someone that is close to you (and older, bout the same age as your parents), but isn't realated. Maybe O&B were just friends of Obi, and Vader came from Tattoine, but didn't know O&B. That would make his comment about "staying here" valid, yet making a lot more sense about why Vader never found Luke.

Or O&B can just pretend to be related to Luke without ever knowing Vader.

This is assuming we ignore Episode II (I don't think we'll have a proble with that).

[CowboyCurtis]

Good observations, Casual Fan, this is why I think Vader and Anakin should've been separate characters, but... whatchagonnado... I think I might have to give up on my rewrites.

It has become such a pointless mess.

I want to rewrite these films, but I have to rewrite ROTJ, too, to make my prequels work. Vader can still say to Luke in ESB that he's his father, and instead of Yoda saying that Vader is Anakin, that it is instead a Sith trick to unnerve Luke (gawd, that sounds stupid, doesn't it? Sith and Jedi dueling could almost end up like "Baseketball") and get him to doubt himself and lose control.

Or, as I had proposed one time that Amidala loved both Vader and Anakin, and they wanted her to choose one of them (Lucas likes to steal ideas from other movies, and he had taken the love triangle from "Gone with the Wind" for Han, Leia and Luke), so there could be a scene (and it doesn't have to be graphic, just suggestive) where Amidala tells Vader that she chooses Anakin and Vader goes crazy with jealous and forces himself on her (just a quick cutaway when she screams)... so we're left in doubt as to who is the father of the children. Anakin then learns of this and goes after Darth. They duel, Darth wins, or maybe Anakin has won but he's turned to the dark side and Obi-Wan tries to turn him back. Anakin, realizes what he has become and decides to sacrifice himself to the lava pit, but not before throwing Obi-wan his lightsaber, saying, "give it to my son."

After Obi-Wan leaves, a figure crawls out of the pit, but it's disfigured, we're not sure who it is....but it has revenge on its mind.

Several ideas in there, all I've considered.... I have to muse on it more...

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 15 June 2005 - 02:27 PM