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Watto's immunity to Jedi mind tricks Why not?

#1 User is offline   andy_k_250 Icon

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:14 PM

I realize that this is one of the reasons ChefElf identified as a reason to hate TPM, but why is it a big deal? I realize that every living thing is a part of The Force, but why is it so big of a stretch to say that Watto's species is immune to Jedi mind tricks? What if his insectoid neural pathways are so alien and complex that it would be difficult for all but the strongest Jedi (or a Jedi of his own species) to use powers of suggestion on him? That's not that big of a stretch. It's not like he is immune to The Force - I'm sure Sith lightning would still hurt/kill him.

PS - I realize it is a little corny that this was a plot device, but come on.
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#2 User is offline   Veer Icon

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:21 PM

As a species, biology mumbo-jumbo, the idea sounds stupid.

However Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded, maybe watto as an individual was just strong minded. Or maybe his greed for money blinded him to being influenced by anything else. That would work for me.

This post has been edited by Veer: 08 June 2005 - 03:43 PM

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#3 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:41 PM

I think it was a terrible "plot" device. Firstly, it says that this entire species has an immunity, which goes against what we know about the Jedi mind trick. Secondly, it seems to only happen to force them into the stupid pod race scene.
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#4 User is offline   andy_k_250 Icon

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jun 8 2005, 03:41 PM)
I think it was a terrible "plot" device.  Firstly, it says that this entire species has an immunity, which goes against what we know about the Jedi mind trick.  Secondly, it seems to only happen to force them into the stupid pod race scene.


True.
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#5 User is offline   GreviousMAKESmeSAD Icon

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 05:32 PM

If watto didn't say I'm a taidarion first, it would have worked. It would have made him look strong minded and thats it. Like Jabba did in Jedi

This post has been edited by GreviousMAKESmeSAD: 08 June 2005 - 05:32 PM

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#6 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 12:51 AM

Watto makes the whole midichlorian concept fall apart.

I've already explained how... and i'm not going to argue it anymore.
I'm sick of wasting my time on people who agree with something because they choose to beleive in it, and i'm sick of them trying to turn that same argument against me... it doesn't hold up.

I don't think Watto's race was imune to lightsabres though...

and don't give me that jedi are good bullshit... I'm sure Obi wan could have 'force persuaded' bum face to back off... but no, he cuts his arm off...

Watto was a fucking slaver, and I'm pretty sure the all empowering now-unmystical force doesn't award 'dark-side-points' to people who free 5 year old slaves...
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#7 User is offline   andy_k_250 Icon

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jun 8 2005, 03:41 PM)
I think it was a terrible "plot" device.  Firstly, it says that this entire species has an immunity, which goes against what we know about the Jedi mind trick.  Secondly, it seems to only happen to force them into the stupid pod race scene.


How much exactly do we know about the Jedi mind tricks? The only instances in which I can think of that it was used was -

Watto (to accept Republic credits) - failure
Elan Sleezabango (sp?) (to rethink his life) - success
Padme (to have sex with Anakin) - just kidding
Imperial Sandtrooper ("These aren't the droids we're looking for.")- success
Bib Fortuna (to allow Luke an audience with Jabba) - success
Jabba (to free Solo) - failure

So, it only has a 60% success rate, anyway. If something as intangible and unmeasurable as force of will can prevent mind tricks, then why can't biology?
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#8 User is offline   andy_k_250 Icon

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:38 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Jun 9 2005, 12:51 AM)
Watto makes the whole midichlorian concept fall apart.

I've already explained how... and i'm not going to argue it anymore.
I'm sick of wasting my time on people who agree with something because they choose to beleive in it, and i'm sick of them trying to turn that same argument against me... it doesn't hold up.

I don't think Watto's race was imune to lightsabres though...

and don't give me that jedi are good bullshit... I'm sure Obi wan could have 'force persuaded' bum face to back off... but no, he cuts his arm off...

Watto was a fucking slaver, and I'm pretty sure the all empowering now-unmystical force doesn't award 'dark-side-points' to people who free 5 year old slaves...


Ha ha. Okay.
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Posted 09 June 2005 - 11:48 PM

I thinkk we have to question what Lucas means by "weak-minded." What are they just base, selfish and greedy (which would've been Watto), or are they just retarded?
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#10 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 03:24 AM

QUOTE
Secondly, it seems to only happen to force them into the stupid pod race scene.


Exactly.

1) Force immue so can't use mind trick

2) Chip in slaves head so can't kidnap

My God, the only way they can win is by Pod racing! It seems Lucas just spit's things out of his ass and then they become cannon. Right after TPM was released, I'm sure some author wrote a book on slave chip manufactuers and how important they are.

I dunno, it seems to me like lazy writing. Everybody always goes back to the OT and says "it was not known for it's great writing either". But the thing is, it was good. Heck, movies with crap scripts NEVER win oscars.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 10 June 2005 - 03:25 AM

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 12:12 PM

Watto is strongly driven by money, hence he's strong-willed, hence he's immune to Jedi mind tricks.

However, this line would have been just as effective if Watto had dropped the part about all toydarians, and just referred to himself. One can make an argument that toydarians, culturally, have always been driven by money, so they're all immune to Jedi mind tricks, but that requires a bit of a stretch on the audience's part.
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Posted 10 June 2005 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Jun 9 2005, 12:51 AM)
and don't give me that jedi are good bullshit... I'm sure Obi wan could have 'force persuaded' bum face to back off... but no, he cuts his arm off...

Obi was trying to solve the conflict peacefully, and when that didn't work, he had to act.
I know that it's a bit of a stretch, but you could say that butt-head was very angry by then, and strong willed, so it couldn't be used on him. Or you could just say Obi did it so no one else messed with them. I like the second option better.
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Posted 11 June 2005 - 12:53 AM

Watto's immunity to mind tricks - it wasn't particularly bad until he said "I'm a Toidorian, that kind of crap (paraphrased) doesn't work on me" - it meant there was some widespread documented evidence - perhaps a newspaper article "Jedi Mind Tricks vs Alien Species: we road test the Force" - to that effect... it would have been fine otherwise.
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#14 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 02:25 AM

QUOTE
and don't give me that jedi are good bullshit... I'm sure Obi wan could have 'force persuaded' bum face to back off... but no, he cuts his arm off...


I think he (or Luke) wouldve been shot in the time it took him to pull off a mind trick.

and Watto says "mind tricks dont work on me"

This post has been edited by jariten: 11 June 2005 - 02:26 AM

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#15 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 07:24 PM

what about a force push?

that would have scared them off, without perminant injury or death...

This post has been edited by barend: 13 June 2005 - 07:25 PM

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