[Vampsmasher]

I am going out on a limb here, this being my first post and all, and not knowing much about anybody here, but after having read Chefelf's lists of why the star wars movies suck...I have come up with another way of looking at it all perhaps. I would agree that the films degenerated over a time, and that George Lucas seems to have altered his vision in order to make himself look good, the one thing that seems to be missing from a board such as this, which appears to be a basher/gusher attack fest, is a criticism based on a different kind of analysis.

I'm not one who reads Rogert Ebert, or movie ciritics or the zillions of debased movie-blogs which seem to condemn everything for even existing ,I say what about the overall picture. I like B-grade movies, sometimes the worst films ever made have value. It depends on how you look at things. There are things in Apocalypse Now which can be citicized the same way the criticism of star wars seems to be in this forum, and even Plan 9 From Outer Space has merits. I think I uunderstand the "i'm betrayed" attitude, and the general feeling of George Lucas as a hack, or big businessman out for more money, but if there was a vision in star wars, behind all the flaws, and defects, what was it and what can be criticized about it?



Take my avatar, "Van Helsing," perhaps one of the worst movies ever made, a Turkey Award winner, and yet I find some bit of redeeming subtance in it. I don't recomend it, but it appeals to me on another level, and perhaps others. I could agree to no end with every flaw, and defect, every pandering and wasted piece of celluloid in it, but there remains something there. If we're talkin Star Wars here, ,now that its all over and done with, what is really wrong with it, or right with it, on a level above "Greiveous coughs too much."??

[Private Zod]

Hello,

You are correct. 99.9% of the films made should not, would not or could not be viewed with such scrutiny that the SW films have. However, the majority of fans out there grew up on these films and hold a special place for them. Add that to the anticipation of 16 years of build-up/waiting for the prequels to come out mixed with a dash of the Information Age/Website Blogs and Message Boards and PRESTO: you have boards like this.

[Vampsmasher]

Understandable. It appears this board has been here since episode I(?) ...ample time to get over that. Now that its all over with, what about looking at it now, ,in a perspective beyond gushing for it or against it, and whether not its vision has anything of value(as a whole). I understand the argument that "it has nothing of value" because of whats been said, but thats all reactionary.
Now that its a total en complete work, crappy or poorly manufactured, is there anything in there thats worth talking about?

[Lord Melkor]

You are right! I, for example, not care for Star Wars religion, and I find both PT and OT very entertaining!

[Vampsmasher]

I suppose what I am getting at is, could there be anything to discuss (or argue) about Star Wars beyond whether Obiwan remembers owning droids, continuity errors that don't add up to much more than bad filmmaking, and nitpicks on whether Mcgregor and Guiness wear the same shoe size? I mean, is this the result here? ROTS wasn't exactly a good film by any means, but neither was Village of the Damned by John Carpenter...however there are interesting things to speak about concerning both besides the fact that Lucas and Carpenter are not John Huston or Francis Ford Coppola? Yes, Chewbacca shouldn't have been in Episode III, its stupid, but besides this lame fact, could there be anything at all in any of the star wars films that is worth writing about in terms of its content, or lack of if you wish, depending on how you see it? Yes...yes...long expositions about trade disputes makes for a bored audience and is not top notch filmmaking, but did it mean anything? I'm not being a gusher here, I could care less about the Joeseph Campbell bulshit, because its not really anything specifically examined in these films, its all a P.R. afterthought which I don't buy into, however, could there be anything else about Star Wars worth wasting endless amounts of time talking about beside the fact that Obiwan's hair switches sides from scene to scene and why Palpatine actually looks older in Episode I than Episode II...these are the tiniest details which hardly add up to more than yes, these are bad B-movies, but as I said, when I watch films like Invasion of the Body Snatchers or the Blob...I'm on a whole other level of thinking and enjoyment...there are things such as subtexts, social commentary and emotional relation on levels not expressed through traditional drama like The Godfather. Yes, Mars Attacks is a dumb movie, but there is something of value to speak of in it beyond pure entertainment and whether the Martians had green blood or not in the original Topps Trading Cards on which the film is based. We're missing the trees for the forest here...