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91 Counter Arguments to Chef Elf's Thoughts

#16 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Post icon  Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:23 PM

I think that Grevious was one of the coolest characters of Star Wars before seeing Episode III because in Clone Wars he was like the biggest badass ever when he kidnapped Palpatine.

But now think that George Lucas wasted one of the greatest characters ever in this movie sad.gif .

But I still think this movie was great. (I liked that these are ''Observations'' and not ''Reasons to Hate'' because the movie was awesome)

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#17 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:30 PM


1. War! What Is It Good For
I think General Grievous can easily be classified as a hero from the Separatists view.


According to the clone wars cartoons he killed several jedi to capture palpatine, when only two show up, he smashes the window and flees....

Some hero.

2. It really isn't that difficult to follow the Jedi Star Fighters if you actually try.

why does it always come down to audience effort to make things work? tongue.gif

(but i thought the opening battle looked cool enough though)

3. Airplanes were originally biplanes which had two wings on each side. Today we see airplanes with one wing on each side and a jet engine. Maybe there is some engineering explanation as to why two wings are better than three.

I have difficulty understanding the remainder of what you are complaining about. Are you whining about the fact that the X-wing precursors are attempting to link us to the OT and fail? How do they fail? By having an extra two wings?


Two wings is excessive for something that 'flies' in space... they are redundant.

The X-wing carries 4 guns that are separate enough from each other to not be likely taken out collectively by a single shot.

The *-wings in ROTS have 2 wings for guns and 4 smaller wings for nothing...

4. R2 Fights the Buzz Droids
What would you prefer, a more original idea? A center eye seems like a logical point for a weakness to be, considering how the eye is most likely where the droid interprets its surroundings. Would you rather have Obi-Wan say "R2, zap the buzz droid in its mechanical penis"?


The centre "eye" seems like a pretty lame spot for a major weakness...
If you stab a human in the eye, the instrument will likely pierce the brain so fair enough... but a droid?

5. R2 Leaps Out of Ship
Did you ever consider the fact that the Jedi Starfighters may be equipped with some sort of spring device which propels R2 out of the ship? Maybe the X-Wing isn't equipped with this accessory.

Also, how does R2 get out of the X-Wing on Degobah? I actually can't remember, but there definitely weren't any cranes or suction pumps there."?


Why isn't the X-wing equipped with this... what about the material they saved from loosing the other 2 wings tongue.gif

And HOW DOES R2D2 get out of the X-wing in ESB?
Good question...

6. Chancellor's Signal?
Grievous' ship is capable of specifically identifying life forms. As you will recall, the bridge is capable of tracking the Jedi and placing a ray shield around them. I don't see it being unrealistic for R2 to tap into the same sensor system and locate the Chancellor's life "signal".."


I have to agree here... they check for "life Signes" on the escape pod at the beginning of ANH....

7. R2 Cell Phone
There is no logical explanation for this aside from providing humour. And as I witnessed in the movie theatre three times, the majority of people laughed at this scene. Thus, George Lucas' objective of the scene was accomplished


Letís not play the popularity game... let's not start the leaf blower debate here...

People laughing in a cinema does not invalidate the point made...

8. Droid I.Q.
I recently viewed the script of ROTS and found this:

SUPER BATTLE DROID 1: What's that?
SUPER BATTLE DROID 2: Get back to work. It's nothing.

And yes, droids do makes stupid decisions. That is probably why Palpatine chose to make a clone army rather than a droid army.


Droids don't make "stupid" decisions... they have logic sub-routines.
if they do not complete a task it is due to insufficient input or physical capability.

why they would not investigate an unscheduled noise in a combat situation goes against everything droids stand for...

unless they had some "lazy-chip" inserted because it entertained Dokuu...

9. General Grievous
Nearly any possible potential fear of Grievous is eliminated as soon as he doubles over to begin hacking and wheezing.
He had his chest crushed! I'm sure anybody, bad guy or good guy, would show some sign of physical weakness after being fatally injured.

To further weaken Grievous's character, he is a tremendous coward
How is he a coward? Do you call an individual who risks his life to sneak into the most heavily guarded place in the galaxy to kidnap the most important man in the galaxy a coward? Grievous has legitimate reasons (ie. certain death) for running away. He is injured and needs time to recover.

Using the same type of logic, we must now classify Luke as a coward for refusing to attack Vader with his left fist and feet in Cloud City after getting his right hand sliced off.

The problem is we don't see Grievous at 100% in the ROTS.

It is also worthy of noting how bizarre it is that Grievous coughs as much as he does, considering he doesn't appear to have any lungs.
Although it is not apparent, evidentally he does have lungs..


The problem there is that you can't expect an audience to know information that was given in a cartoon, which most people didn't seem to know about...

I caught the last episode by accident, out of pure luck... so i knew what was happening...

but it's a bit much to expect... and the very fact that there is a three season cartoon series to fill in the gaps further justifies the suggestion and observation that Lucas wasted precious story telling time on showing Anakin win a pod race...

it is a poor reflection on Lucas as a story teller...
he had a trilogy to tell a story, not a multi media empire to rely upon... that's movie making, if you can't tell your story in one place then go back to nerf herding!!!

10. R2-D2 Kicks Ass
Personally, I don't like R2's antics or new abilities. However, since Lucas introduced new abilities for R2 in AOTC it would be another contradiction for him to suddenly eliminate them. Again, these scenes are just meant to get a laugh out of people. Most people laughed in the theatre laughed at this, so evidentally Lucas accomplished his objective.


Again, how does making a theatre of people laugh constitute an adequate excuse for a massive physical and unexplained inconsistency...

Most poor people don't complain that the rich are living off their hardship but that doesn't make it excusable...
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#18 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:37 PM

QUOTE
The centre "eye" seems like a pretty lame spot for a major weakness...


"The Nose. Punch him on the NOSE."
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#19 User is offline   Storm Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE (barend @ Jun 6 2005, 09:30 PM)
Again, how does making a theatre of people laugh constitute an adequate excuse for a massive physical and unexplained inconsistency...

Personally I didn't find R2-D2 to be funny, except when he got kicked over. But the stuff he did was meant to appeal to the younger crowd. As for his special abilities, it was stupid of Lucas to include them in the first place. However, this is a complaint that should be reserved only for AOTC for two reasons:

1. We already have the contradiction in R2-D2's abilities between the PT and OT. However, if Lucas introduces the jets in AOTC and takes them away in ROTS, then we have another contradiction. Undoubtedly people would be asking "What happened to R2's jets?".

2. It's not funny to complain about something that's already been nitpicked to death. Complaining about it a second time is just boring. However, I do agree with Chef that the reason R2-D2 can fly in the PT is because he believes he can.

This post has been edited by Storm: 06 June 2005 - 10:41 PM

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#20 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:41 PM

I see nothing wrong with Chefelf's current list of reasons for hating Episode III.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#21 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:42 PM

The problem with the buzz-droids isn't the eye, it's the buzz droids.

Still, Artoo Detoo the spunky feisty battler could have easily taken the Jawas in Star Wars... just burn them and zap them and use his power saw - and when he opens the door and provides a smokescreen in ESB he was just being humble because he could have fired the grenade he was keeping in his lightsaber launcher and blown the everholy crap out of the stormtroopers.
A lot of fine parody can stem from the fighting artoo of the prequels.
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#22 User is offline   Renegade Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:07 AM

Most of em are kinda just weak sauce.
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#23 User is offline   GreviousMAKESmeSAD Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:18 AM

I didn't have any trouble following the opening space battle and I only saw it once. The buzz droids didn't bother me much. Only the fact that Obi Wan has to tell R2 how to get rid of them. As far as Grievous goes, I think he is pathetic. I don't even want to get into right now. I've complained and listed the reasons why so much by now, its starting to get redundent.
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#24 User is offline   The Lord of Dorkness Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 10:36 AM

I think the hole problem about the "heroes on both sides" thing is people's different definitions on what a "hero" is. For example, my definition is a mighty soldier fighting for the forces of good. And that makes the opening lame. But others might define the word differently, and therefore approve of it.
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#25 User is offline   DJJ Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 10:48 AM

The point made about x-wings: Although useless in space perhaps there's a need for wings when fighting in atmosphere which might be possible or alternatively if not fighting in atmosphere when landing/crash landing having wings to generate lift provides an alternative to engines if they've died/malfunctioning.
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#26 User is offline   fett Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 10:57 AM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Jun 6 2005, 07:37 PM)
"The Nose. Punch him on the NOSE."


Stupid pit droids.
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#27 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Post icon  Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE (Private Zod @ Jun 7 2005, 12:00 AM)
Because, you did not do your homework assignment between Episodes 2 AND 3 and read/watch all the Clone War cartoons, comics and novels that came out and explained Grievous's assault on Coruscant, how grievous came about, how anakin became a knight, Obiwan a general, etc tongue.gif



EXCSUED HOMEWORK DUE TO LUCAS CLAIMING THAT COMICS, NOVELS CARTOONS ETC ARE NOT CANON, THEY DO NOT REFLECT HIS VISION OF STAR WARS BUT ARE THERE TO ENTERTAIN THE FANS. I SEE NO REASON WHY HE SHOULD EXCUSE HIS LAZYASS FILM MAKING BY USING A MEDIUM THAT HE DOES NOT CONSIDER LEGITIMATE AND FURTHER MORE THE MAN HAS MADE ENOUGH MONEY WITH OUT YOU PIMPING FOR HIM.
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#28 User is offline   Storm Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:49 PM

QUOTE (julie123 @ Jun 7 2005, 01:44 PM)
EXCSUED HOMEWORK DUE TO LUCAS CLAIMING THAT COMICS, NOVELS CARTOONS ETC ARE NOT CANON, THEY DO NOT REFLECT HIS VISION OF STAR WARS BUT ARE THERE TO ENTERTAIN THE FANS.† I SEE NO REASON WHY HE SHOULD EXCUSE HIS LAZYASS FILM MAKING BY USING A MEDIUM THAT HE DOES NOT CONSIDER LEGITIMATE AND FURTHER MORE THE MAN HAS MADE ENOUGH MONEY WITH OUT YOU PIMPING FOR HIM.


First of all, don't write an entire post in Caps Locks. I can't think of anything more annoying.

Secondly, the Clone Wars cartoons were shown on Teletoon. If you already had cable, then it would cost you nothing extra for you to view them.

This post has been edited by Storm: 07 June 2005 - 01:49 PM

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#29 User is offline   Grand Moff Lebowski Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Storm @ Jun 7 2005, 10:49 AM)
First of all, don't write an entire post in Caps Locks.  I can't think of anything more annoying. 



Boy I sure can. Need I say it?
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#30 User is offline   Sagacity Icon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 02:00 PM

Great. We have to go to a completely different source to understand what's in a movie now. rolleyes.gif
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