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91 Reasons to Hate Episode III Revenge of the Sith Articles Have Begun!

#136 User is offline   Firewhenready Icon

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 05:36 PM

The dialogue in ANH's duel was fine. It may have been a bit of a cliche, but the lines made sense and helped the story. If they were so bad, why would Obi-wan's "strike me down" line be repeated so many years later? I don't think "Twice the pride, double the fall" will be remembered as fondly. The line's practically forgotten now and the movie's only about a month old.
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#137 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 08:33 AM

The new reasons (21-30) were posted on Lance & Eskimo today.



Enjoy. smile.gif

QUOTE (Lord Melkor @ Jun 19 2005, 02:50 PM)
Chefelf, why do you find ROTS duel exchange stupid, while the one in ANH didn`t have much better dialogue?


Ugh. Why do people keep asking me about the dialogue in the OT? This is not "91 Reasons to Hate Episode III as opposed to Episode IV being AWESOME!" These articles are about ROTS, not ANH. ANH has its own problems though they seem to be far fewer to me.
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#138 User is offline   WalkingCarpet Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 08:42 AM

Great as always chef. Loved the baby's reactions to the Padme/Anakin scene. Mirrored my own I think!
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#139 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Chefelf @ Jun 20 2005, 02:33 PM)
The new reasons (21-30) were posted on Lance & Eskimo today.



Enjoy.† smile.gif
Ugh.† Why do people keep asking me about the dialogue in the OT?† This is not "91 Reasons to Hate Episode III as opposed to Episode IV being AWESOME!"† These articles are about ROTS, not ANH.† ANH has its own problems though they seem to be far fewer to me.


Maybe because the view most old fans have on OT is biased by their childhood experiences?

And your reasons are still funny, by the way! Give me more.

By the way, there are major mistakes in those new ones. This Jedi Code you mentioned is not canon, and force is not in balance because of Sith, GL said so.

This post has been edited by Lord Melkor: 20 June 2005 - 09:46 AM

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#140 User is offline   Tpolg Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:25 AM

#7
#8
#10

The first time I saw the movie I actually found these antics somewhat amusing. The second time, somewhat less amusing. The third time I said to myself “this is really silly and superfluous”.

Submitted for your approval.
It is a dark theater; you and the rest of the sell out audience have never seen ROTS before.
You watch as the familiar logos pas by and then Anakin and Obi-Wan zoom in to action.
After overcoming several obstacles they make it onboard General Grievous’s ship. They locate the captive Chancellor and move quickly to the elevator. Some droidekas show up and start firing at are heroes (actually trying to kill them, imagine that!) but the Jedi are to quick for them and deflect the blasts with their light sabers and manage back slowly in to the elevator, the doors close. Next we see the doors open and out walk Obi-Wan and Anakin in to observation chamber where Chancellor Palpatine is being held.
Now put it to you, at this point, is any one in the theater wondering, what zany slapstick elevator antics did we miss?
Is any one in the theater wondering if the elevator was actually full of battle droids, who say “drop your weapons, I said drop them” and stand by while being cut to pieces?
Is any one in the theater wondering if the elevator stopped for no apparent reason, and Anakin and Obi-Wan had some silly “did you push the stop button banter?
Is any one in the theater wondering if Anakin cut a hole in the elevator for no apparent reason?
Is any one in the theater wondering if R2D2 conspicuously held his comlink out in front of him, in order to “beep” to Obi-Wan?
Is any one in the theater wondering if R2D2 sprayed about twenty liters of oil on some super battle droids and then lit them up with his magic jet boots?
Is any one in the theater wondering if Anakin and Obi-Wan had some loose wire jokes on the way up?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then you have just entered the Lucas zone!

This post has been edited by Tpolg: 20 June 2005 - 10:26 AM

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#141 User is offline   WalkingCarpet Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:34 AM

Well, its all part of establishing the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, so we can see what a massive thing it is for them to fight almost to the death later on.

What's that Artoo?

"Beep biddly beep"

What do you mean, should have been done already?

"Bipple biddle beep beep"

I know there's been two prequels already but wh....

"Booble bippy bop beep"

But the pod-race was important, it had to go on for what seems like hours.

"BEEP BEEP BUPPING BEEP"

Well there's no need to swear.
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#142 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (Lord Melkor @ Jun 20 2005, 09:42 AM)
By the way, there are major mistakes in those new ones. This Jedi Code you mentioned is not canon, and force is not in balance because of Sith, GL said so.


Anakin mentions the Jedi Code in ROTS. Therefore it is now canon. You could argue that the Jedi Code I quoted is not official but if not then what is the Jedi code? Unless they add it into the new DVD release it will NEVER be canon at this point.
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#143 User is offline   julie123 Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE
And your reasons are still funny, by the way! Give me more.


Not only funny but spot on.

[QUOTE]By the way, there are major mistakes in those new ones. This Jedi Code you mentioned is not canon, and force is not in balance because of Sith, GL said so.QUOTE]

Lucas has used the Jedi Code in the EU since I believe 1999 - just like General Grievous in ROTS; Lucas uses the expanded universe in his films as a short cut to any explanation of story lines etc, because he is aware that most of the fan boys will know what he is referencing. What is wrong here is that Lucas then overturns the EU and fails to use the EU's Jedi Code in full. This style of film making to me seems ethically wrong; as we Brits would say he wants to have his cake and eat it. Lucas should either make the EU legitimate and therefore canon, or expect the fans to continue to point out errors in his films such as the one Chef has rightly drawn our attention to.


And Mr GL does not say the force is not in balance because of the Sith, I think you mean that Obi-Wan does. Again, Lucas' style of film making here is extremely dodgy. In episodes 1 and 2, all the Jedi have said about the force is that it is out of balance. Then along comes Episode 3 and suddenly it is out of balance because of the existence of the Sith. If this is the case then Mr Lucas should have been honest to his story (and the fans) and said so since Episode 1 or if he was being REALLY honest, he should have been using the prophecy story line since A New Hope.

Myself, I believe that the inclusion of the Sith being the reason the force is out of balance is because of the criticism he has engendered to date regarding the prophecy, that is it made no sense. This is a weak and feeble effort to overcome this. I also believe, as do many others that Lucas is using the demise of the Sith as a means of giving a real reason for Vaderís eventual redemption other than saving Luke's life - he was just fulfilling his destiny or put another way the force made him do it. However, if we go along with this kind of thinking we are setting up a dangerous precedent. It's as if we are saying Bin Laden is assured his place in paradise because he is just fulfilling his destiny. I pray that Lucas does not tell Hitlerís life story, especially when he considers it more "interesting" to tell a story from the middle.
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#144 User is offline   A Link to the Past Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 12:33 PM

Whoo, 31 reasons! o.o
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#145 User is offline   Firewhenready Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:34 PM

I think the biggest problem with making Vader killing the Emperor into a big fulfillment of destiny is this:
Wouldn't the Emperor have died anyway when the Death Star was blown up? They act like Vader saved the day for everyone by killing the Emperor; really the only person he saved was Luke. Palpatine would've died anyway.

This post has been edited by Firewhenready: 20 June 2005 - 06:35 PM

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#146 User is offline   Raka Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:36 PM

It's been forever since I invited myself in to play pedant.

#14: Actually, there's probably plenty of gravity where they are. They're pretty clearly at a low-orbital altitude, most likely around the mesosphere (hard to tell without more geological data on Coruscant than I care to have). You're only weightless at that altitude if you're orbiting, which requires a lot of horizontal movement. The main reason we orbit is that it allows us to stay up by constantly "falling" in a circle, thus expending little fuel. Since Star Wars engines don't appear to be particularly short on fuel, Greivous's ships presumably went more or less vertical until they were intercepted by Republic forces, and then held position while they attempted to fight through the blockade. SW ships do have artificial gravity, but there are any number of acceptable reasons why this might have been off when the topsy-turvy started happening.

#15: Vacuum doesn't really exert any force (given #14, they're also not really in a true vacuum, but it's close enough for our purposes). When a window blows out, the force exerted on you depends on the amount of air able to escape, the size of the hole, the shape of the area you're in, and (most of all for this case) how close you are to the hole. Air can only escape at a certain rate, which depends entirely on the pressure differential and the size of the aperature. If the hole is big enough, all the air will escape at once-- this is the much-misunderstood "explosive decompression", and yeah, everything not bolted down (and some things not bolted down well enough) will be sucked out then. When it's just one panel in a relatively huge chamber connected to other areas of the ship by big open hallways, then it'll be a steady wind that lasts as long as the air in the ship does. When room is much wider than the hole is, the force exerted by the wind decreases exponentially as distance from the hole increases. The minimum force it would take to pull you sideways as you clung to a railing is right around 1.5 - 2 gravities, which isn't much worse than doing a pull-up. I'm not going to try to do the math without a detailed set of schematics for the ship, but there is certainly a distance where the wind will exert at least that much force, but not so much that strong Jedi-fingers can't keep their grip at least for a while.

"Cold" is also not a form of energy that goes into a ship once a hole is punched; rather, heat gets out. As long as you don't run out of heat (in the form of warm air), you're fine. Gases do absorb heat as they expand, but again, as long as you have enough air to keep the pressure relatively constant, you shouldn't experience significant problems.

The bends (and other forms of dysbarism) would be a concern, but only once the air pressure had lowered, which requires running out of air-- something that didn't seem to be a problem on the huge, poorly compartmentalized vessel. The Bernoulli principle might apply here, but it's not significant enough or for an extended enough period of time to trigger dysbaric symptoms.

#21: I'm assuming they use some sort of invisible force field similar to the ones they use on spaceship docking bays. Or whatever. But they certainly have the tech to allow high-altitude balconies (especially for VIPs), so I actually prefer that they don't waste time explaining it to me.

Other than that, good show! I'm particularly fond of 22 and 4 (just like some fantasy novels are basically transcripts of someone's D&D campaign, this movie really felt like they designed the video game first).
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#147 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:43 PM

Those raesone were great Chefelf! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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#148 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:02 PM

Chef are you going to start hacking at the poor relationships set up in this film? Or how about Kyyysh, a blatant excuse to plug the wookies and chewy.

The new list of reasons are starting to really address the points I have problems with.

I agree 100% with Anakin's temper and dress code before the council. The Order is so f'in stupid that they need to be slapped in the face and spat on prior to making a decision on what is good and what is bad. They are suppose to be reader of signs and have extra ability to sense danger, yet in this film it takes hard evidence for the Jedi to act on something.

Anakin is not stable
Anakin dresses in black
Anakin impregnates a girl
Palpatine lives next door
Dooku heads a robot army
Millions of clones are being made

Not one disturbance, Not one acknowedgment

Anakin- "hey guess what! Palpatine told me he's a Sith lord"

Mace -"of course, we knew it all along....ya that's it, right from the begining"

PS- Chef, how is it that YODA's good relations with the wookies would benefit any one. Aren't the Wookies being attacked? What does YODA need to offer them? Heck, they should be so lucky they're getting any support at all.
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#149 User is offline   maestro_of_mirth Icon

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 12:55 AM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Jun 21 2005, 12:02 AM)
Or how about Kyyysh, a blatant excuse to plug the wookies and chewy.



It seems ironically fortunate for Yoda that the Wookies had a Yoda-sized escape rocket just lying around. I'm glad the CGI army attacked from the other side of that big hill, or it wouldn't have worked...

Yoda's courage is undoubtedly a Life Day inspiration to every wookie [and Bea Arthur]
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#150 User is offline   Neslock Icon

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:04 PM

Excellent work in reasons 21-30, Chef. For me, these ten are reasons to hate E3, because they expose shallow character development, juvenile dialog, and simplistic, nonsensical plot lines. I swear that 30 seconds before Anakin said, "You are so.. beautiful." I clearly heard him in my head: "You are so... beautiful.", because a character so two-dimensional could have gone nowhere else in that moment - and then the conversation went downward, sounding like it was written by a fifth grader. I am so disappointed, because I really wanted to "get into" Anakin's fall to the dark side, but there were so many poorly written scenes that my suspension of disbelief didn't have a chance. A poster on Slashdot said that Anakin's turn to the dark side was based on "a couple of bad dreams and a lame promise from a bad guy who couldn't be more transparent if he were twirling a moustache." biggrin.gif Reasons 21 - 30 were about where I really started to realize that there was going to be nothing worth watching but special effects.

I saw Batman Begins last weekend, and have been comparing character development between the two movies since. There was a fantastic "fall to the dark side", written correctly.

Yoda's "Mourn them, do not, miss them, do not." was ridiculous and sickening at the same time. Too bad Yoda wasn't there to console Princess Leia when Alderaan was destroyed - "Mourn them, do not, Miss them, do not." That's one master I'd be saying "see ya" to.

And finally, I always wondered why "restoring balance to the force" means wiping out the dark side. Maybe the Jedi really are the bad guys... I prefer Michael Moorcock's Chaos/Order balance.
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