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Jordan's take on ROTS I'm a 2000 poster, I must have a say.

#1 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 07:10 AM

First and foremost, the lack of drama. The last two episodes did little in the relationship department. Ob1 and Anakin's friendship was non-existent. Having no relationship in TPM and spending 3/4's seprated during AOTC, they had enough sparks to NOT start a fire or even a single glare of light.

Padme still inexplicably loves Anakin. More dead romancing went on with "I love you" "no, I love you more". Yawn

Palpatine and Anakin's relationship officially started in episode III, therefore felt rushed when Anakin swore allegiance to Palps. I felt very cheated with his conversion. I guess the audience is just suppose to assume that the two of them hit it off some time between ATOC and ROTS.

Most of the battles led no where but did have more impact on me than the last two installments.

As I suspected, Qui Gonn's character was useless. They mentioned his name and muttered something about him learning how to be immortal. It was a stupid plug used as an excuse to fire of his name. I guess Lucas wanted us to know that he did not forget about him.

OK, Qui Gonn did serve a purpose, he robbed OB1's TPM oppurtunity of having a relationship with Anakin. He was a throw away character, his only purpose was to die at the hands of maul, therefore making the battle more significant when OB1 entered the ring.


Anakin's fall to the darkside was so pussy that it made me cringe. He did it to save his wife? That is why he becomes a murdering dictator? He even admitted he does not like to kill, he felt bad after killing Dooku (the guy that cut his arm off), but then later decides to kill kids.

------Very Important NOTE, for me------

Before I saw this film I thought the darkside was utilized by evil people. After seeing ROTS, the only explanation is that the dark side utilizes evil people. Why? Because Anakin literally turns into an evil bastard over a ten minute conversation with palps where he commits to the dark side. Which is totally stupid. It makes Vader's redemption pointless. It was not his fault, but the darkside, he only went dark to save his wife, so his enterence into evil was for a noble cause. So he's a good guy after all. It's not like he wanted to kill people and be evil, that was the dark side of the force controlling him. So he was a slave, redemption was pointless. Blah!

More over, the dark side (as according to ROTS) is having the ability to follow your own desires. Yet Anakin never liked killing, he just got a taste for it after going dark, therefore he did not follow his desire, it seemed like he was possessed by the dark force. If the Dark side worked like I previously thought, Vader would have felt cheated since he nor Palatine could save Padme, he'd probably kill Palpatine out of spite and run off to some Cantina in the corner of the galaxy. Or maybe he'd take over the universe and try run it like Padme wanted too. A democracy.
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Palpatine started off good then later was reduced the cackling villian. He wouldn't stop laughing while fighting Yoda!

OB1 knew about leia, which was stupid because he forgot about her in ESB.

I still don't know why Wookies were in the film. And what was with that lizard ob1 was riding!

I liked Grevious, he moved well. Anakin being turned into Vader was well done. The final shot of Vader and Palps was good.

It's a fitting end to a terrible PT.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 05 June 2005 - 07:35 AM

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#2 User is offline   Karig Icon

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Post icon  Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:38 PM

Huh. Well, it looks like another PT movie I'll not bother to see in the theater.

So basically the purpose of the PT was to explain how joyous little Anakin Skywalker grew up to become Darth Vader, the most feared name in the galaxy -- and Lucas apparently dropped the ball on this one? I'm beginning to think Lucas isn't nearly as good a storyteller as we've been told.
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 07:15 PM

Jordan - good to see you still kicking around and most of that I'll agree with except for one tiddly point - Grievous.
General hack-cough run-away-in-a-wheelie-bike spinning-droid-of-death Grievous and his sodding lightsaber collection.
I thought he was the weakest point of the movie - filling the same void as Jar Jar in TPM. The way he moved, the way he coughed, his voice, the fact that he ran for it at almost every turn and his way of laughing at his own fiendish dastardliness reminded me of Sebulba.
Sorry, but I think grievous sucked.
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#4 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:44 AM

I found greivous full of suprises. His coughing was a bit funny, but he did movie like a creepy witch or something, and I liked that bit.

He had this great crouched over spider like motion when he waked/ran/fought.

He's the best villian in the PT so far. I also liked his design. cyborg alien. That's new for SW.

I know a lot of people are giving him flack, which is cool.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:01 AM

Grievous did nothing for the story, but if he had been more than an excuse to include Utapau in the movie, he'd have been a great villain. As long as Lucas ditched the coughing and the wheel bike, I'm sure he'd be a more interesting bad guy than Darth Maul and Dooku.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:16 AM

All good points, but I agree with the others on Grievous being a week villain. Not only was he inserted into the film just to get Obi Wan away from Anakin, but he did a terrible job of it. As much as I DESPISE Darth Maul, hitman extraordinare, he at least did his job. He killed a Jedi. Added drama, in the weakest sense of the word, but nonetheless, it was drama. Grievous should have been left out, to leave room for Dooku. He was an established villain (Of course GL would've missed out on all the cash for the Grievous toys), he had a conflicting personality, and let us not forget that CHRISTOPHER LEE RULES. The rest of Jordan's qualms, I stand firmly behind.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Jun 5 2005, 07:10 AM)
First and foremost, the lack of drama. The last two episodes did little in the relationship department. Ob1 and Anakin's friendship was non-existent. Having no relationship in TPM and spending 3/4's seprated during AOTC, they had enough sparks to NOT start a fire or even a single glare of light.

Padme still inexplicably loves Anakin. More dead romancing went on with "I love you" "no, I love you more". Yawn

Palpatine and Anakin's relationship officially started in episode III, therefore felt rushed when Anakin swore allegiance to Palps. I felt very cheated with his conversion. I guess the audience is just suppose to assume that the two of them hit it off some time between ATOC and ROTS.

Most of the battles led no where but did have more impact on me than the last two installments.

As I suspected, Qui Gonn's character was useless.  They mentioned his name and muttered something about him learning how to be immortal.  It was a stupid plug used as an excuse to fire of his name.  I guess Lucas wanted us to know that he did not forget about him.

OK, Qui Gonn did serve a purpose, he robbed OB1's TPM oppurtunity of having a relationship with Anakin. He was a throw away character, his only purpose was to die at the hands of maul, therefore making the battle more significant when OB1 entered the ring.
Anakin's fall to the darkside was so pussy that it made me cringe.  He did it to save his wife? That is why he becomes a murdering dictator?  He even admitted he does not like to kill, he felt bad after killing Dooku (the guy that cut his arm off), but then later decides to kill kids. 

          ------Very Important NOTE, for me------

Before I saw this film I thought the darkside was utilized by evil people.  After seeing ROTS, the only explanation is that the dark side utilizes evil people.  Why? Because Anakin literally turns into an evil bastard over a ten minute conversation with palps where he commits to the dark side. Which is totally stupid.  It makes Vader's redemption pointless.  It was not his fault, but the darkside, he only went dark to save his wife, so his enterence into evil was for a noble cause.  So he's a good guy after all.  It's not like he wanted to kill people and be evil, that was the dark side of the force controlling him.  So he was a slave, redemption was pointless.  Blah!

More over, the dark side (as according to ROTS) is having the ability to follow your own desires.  Yet Anakin never liked killing, he just got a taste for it after going dark, therefore he did not follow his desire, it seemed like he was possessed by the dark force.  If the Dark side worked like I previously thought, Vader would have felt cheated since he nor Palatine could save Padme, he'd probably kill Palpatine out of spite and run off to some Cantina in the corner of the galaxy.  Or maybe he'd take over the universe and try run it like Padme wanted too.  A democracy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Palpatine started off good then later was reduced the cackling villian.  He wouldn't stop laughing while fighting Yoda!

OB1 knew about leia, which was stupid because he forgot about her in ESB.

I still don't know why Wookies were in the film.  And what was with that lizard ob1 was riding!

I liked Grevious, he moved well.  Anakin being turned into Vader was well done.  The final shot of Vader and Palps was good. 

It's a fitting end to a terrible PT.


I actually have to disagree with you about Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. I realize that the progression could have been done much better, but to say that Anakin used the Dark Side because of a noble cause is a little short-sighted. Anakin did not want to save Padme for her own sake so much as his own selfish love for her. Like Yoda said earlier in the movie, a Jedi is supposed to forsake worldly attachment to things - had Anakin been a true Jedi, he would have been able to trust to fate and understand that if Padme died, it was meant to be. Instead, he succumbs to his own hubris and tries to alter fate, much as he also wants to dictate how the universe runs rather than letting it run itself. He's selfish and he chose to embrace the Dark Side as much as it sought him out.
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#8 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:15 PM

Anakin did not want to save Padme for her own sake so much as his own selfish love for her.

I really didn't pick that up. I assumed Lucas wanted us to think they loved one another. That on it's own was hard enough to buy.

They never really did any thing together so it's a tough call. They exchanged weak words but other than that...

If Anakin bought her gifts, took her to the opera etc.. then maybe we could say it wasn't selfish. Or if Anakin treated her bad, kept her in close eye, chained her to the bed, then we could say it was selfish.

Lucas did neither so we can't really make a call. You can argue that Anakin's love was selfish because we saw him get flustered when OB1 met with Padme. But that is not enough on screen evidence to say Anakin was being jealous and therefore selfish with his love for pamde. Anakin has hated ob1, for no good reason, since AOTC. So perhaps he just hated OB1.

But my main point was that the darkside makes one more evil. I wish it was something evil people used.

Even if Vader was selfish and sought the dark side, he's not a natural born killer. He became one after converteing. Which is stupid, imo.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 06 June 2005 - 04:27 PM

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (andy_k_250 @ Jun 6 2005, 12:02 PM)
Like Yoda said earlier in the movie, a Jedi is supposed to forsake worldly attachment to things - had Anakin been a true Jedi, he would have been able to trust to fate and understand that if Padme died, it was meant to be. Instead, he succumbs to his own hubris and tries to alter fate, much as he also wants to dictate how the universe runs rather than letting it run itself. He's selfish and he chose to embrace the Dark Side as much as it sought him out.


The beauty of this is that after Yoda gives the big speech to Annakin, he and the rest of the Jedi throw their code out the window as soon as it suits them - from Mace Windu storming into Palpatine's office like something out of a banana republic, to planning to kill Palpatine without trial, to Yoda ordering Obi-Wan to kill his old friend, the Jedi are in no position to pretend to hold the moral high ground in this picture.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 06:48 PM

One point where I must argue with you is that Palaptine and Anakin have a relationship since the end of APH. 10 years later in AOTC Anakin even says to him what a mentor and confidant he has been to him throughout. Palpatine is even close enough to Anakin that he admits to him his slaughter of the sand people.

When he makes a decision, it is between people who don't trust him (the Jedis) and the one person whom he felt was supportive of him from the beginning...Palaptine.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (Jordan @ Jun 6 2005, 04:15 PM)
[b]  Anakin has hated ob1, for no good reason, since AOTC.  So perhaps he just hated OB1.




The EU that ties in between AOTC and ROTS went a long way in showing the relationship between OB1 and Anakin and how close they were. Obviously, AOTC did not do a good job...but I think the beginning of ROTS tried to show the closeness of the two.
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