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Monkey vs God

#1 User is offline   Kirby Icon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:15 PM

Well the old evolution debate has risen up again, this time here in my home state of Utah.

Now the case so far is that the christian right wing wants biology teachers to teach "Intellegent design" (republi-care speak for 'God Made You') along side the "Theory of Evolution".

As a kid who is going to take both Debate and AP Biology next year this is going to affect me, and being as bloody neutral as I am, I'm still on the fence about this.

For: Introduce new ideas and enforces the fact that the scientific community can have differing oppinons about things. Also would make a good excuse for non-christian students/people put pressure on school board.

Against: Enforces right wing christian philosophy on all students that go to school, and waste valuable time that the teacher could use to... oops, forgot I was talking about biology class there.

Thoughts please.
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:34 PM

Some people seem to fail to notice that Biology is a 'science', wouldn't this sort of garbage be better suited to a philosophy class?

Fight the system tooth and nail, walk out of class during the 'intelligent design' parts and refuse to return. It's not like they can set a test on a theological point of view.

Is it?
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:23 PM

No, because I could write "This is total bullshit" on the test paper and I would be right, cause it's just my opinion. But like a great Jedi once said "You will find that many of the truths we believe in are dependant on our point of view."

Of course, you could also say that the moon doesn't exist, but that doesn't make you right. It's all a matter of opinion. Rest assured, however, that the Christians will never get away with it, no matter how much pressure they put on the government.
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:41 PM

I'm agnostic, though I favor evolution far more than "God made everything exactly how it is right now!" Why doesn't anyone ever bring up a mix between genesis and evolution? God drops in, makes some amoebas (or is a metaphor for whatever would create life and not like YHWH at all), then they all grow and slowly change over millions of years. Granted, minus fossils, it's hard to find links, and most genetic mutations are debilitating...

I dunno, but I wouldn't put up with a purely religious (and most especially Old Testament) style development of life. And yeah, philosophy is a better place for it than science until someone builds a time machine and goes back to when the world was created, waits for life to show up, and then comes back and says how it happened.
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:54 PM

The old evolution versus genesis thing is always a weird one.
Many of the same arguments are used by both sides... for example the eye - the eye is composed of a series of light-sensitive cells, the rods and cones arrayed across the retina, then there is a fluid medium, which has the exact optical properties of air, a hard protein lens that focuses light and sits within the pupil, which is protected by a light-amplifying surround or iris. The eye is encased within a cornea so that nothing nasty gets in there and then a pair of sclerae, or eyelids cover the eye to shield it from harm or excessive light.
Its bloody genius thats what it is.
The bible-bashers say that something that perfect could only have arisen from an intelligent designer, while the evolutionists (me cool.gif) say bollocks, how does saying "Let there be man" give him these handy things you can see other things with.
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:59 PM

If there is a god and s/he wants us to believe in creationism, they'd have been less subtle about it. Why bother with fossil records, common biochemistry, and creating rocks that can be carbon dated beyond 6,000 years? If we can evolve organisms in a test tube, there's no reason the two "theories" can't coincide. However, dismissing evolution as a theory is a disservice to both sides. It also irks me that the only creation theory that's taught is the one portrayed in Genesis. If we're going to be open-minded about "theories" then more of them ought to be included. I'm particularly found of the ancient Egyptian's.
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:03 PM

I liked the American Indians... largely because they believed each region was created by its own creator, and they were flexible in their belief... when put on reserves at San Carlos, it was said by one "The creator did not make San Carlos, he left it here, as an example of how things were done before him."
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Posted 04 June 2005 - 01:12 PM

That's cause indians rock, and the bible has more inconsistancies than Star Wars.
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Posted 04 June 2005 - 08:46 PM

Now that's a disturbing thought.
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Posted 04 June 2005 - 09:59 PM

I'm still waiting for that giant turtle we live on to show up and then have Shredder cry out for turtle soup.
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#11 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 12:55 PM

Dude. It's the world supported by elephants standing on a giant turtle. And the world's flat.
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 03:02 PM

No, the world's shaped like a cuboctahedron, and the turtle and the elephants were sneezed out of someone's nose.
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#13 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 03:29 PM

I thought the turtle puked all of it up. No, that was from "IT".
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:58 PM

When talking about evolution, your instructors will be able to cite biologists, chemists, and geologists. When discussing "intelligent design," you'll have at best Von Daniken, Unsolved Mysteries and science fiction; at worst you'll have the Bible and the Book of Morman.

You could pass the biology tests by attending the classes, paying attention and taking occasional notes. You could pass the "creative design" tests by second-guessing the questions and rehashing pop culture.

I'm not saying this is an abasement of science and that you should fight it tooth and nail, but this is an abasement of science and you should fight it tooth and nail.
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 09:32 PM



Monkey wins. He is Equal of Heaven, you know.
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