Chefelf.com Night Life: "Always two there are" - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

Star Wars Fan Convention

Page 1 of 1

"Always two there are" Another, what was Lucas thinking? Moment

#1 User is offline   The Other Icon

  • New Cop
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 04-February 05
  • Country:Canada

Posted 02 June 2005 - 02:22 PM

In TPM Yoda and Mace say: "always two there are. A master an, an apprentice." Yet there are more than two Sith running around in these movies. We have Darth Sidious who may or may not be Darth Plagous. Darth Maul and Count Dooku who may or may not be Darth Tyranus. If he is I have to wonder why no one calls him by that name. Unless I missed something both Maul and Dooku appeared to have been trained at the same time or at least both were working with Sidious at the same time. That makes three, so what happened to the rule of two? wacko.gif
0

#2 User is offline   Twig Bear Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 24-May 05
  • Country:Canada

Posted 02 June 2005 - 02:35 PM

Not to mention the other Sith warriors running around that had nothing to do with the main Sith characters.
0

#3 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 800
  • Joined: 11-February 04
  • Location:Minnesooota
  • Interests:I lose interest in more things each and every day as things grow more and more mediocre and substandard...
  • Country:United States

Posted 02 June 2005 - 04:06 PM

This is the biggest hamstring to the storytelling of Star Wars. If this "rule" had not existed, we could've easily had Grievous with sabers, trained as a Sith.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
0

#4 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

  • Canada's Next Top Model.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Head Moderator
  • Posts: 3,382
  • Joined: 01-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In Your Dreams
  • Interests:I like stuff.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 02 June 2005 - 08:01 PM

He never said there would be only two, a master and an apprentice. He said that when you've seen one, either it's a master or an apprentice.

As stupid as the prequels have been, I never assumed that Yoda's comment meant that the entire Jedi power base was going to be taken down by two guys.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
0

#5 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

  • Champion
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,836
  • Joined: 08-April 04
  • Location:Somewhere near my collarbone
  • Interests:Food, books, movies, history, languages, religions (though I'm an atheist), miracles of nature and marvels of technology.<br /><br />Particularly: steak, the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Dark Ages in Europe, the 'created' languages, the mythologies of defunct European cultures, fish and cars.
  • Country:Australia

Posted 02 June 2005 - 08:32 PM

Yoda says - always two there are, no more, no less, a master and an apprentice.

So it kind of works - if Plagueis trained Sidious, Sidious killed Plagueis and began training Maul and then Tyrannous after Maul died and then Vader after Tyrannous died, while Grievous was not actual a Sith or even a Force-wielder, he was simply trained in Jedi fighting techniques - but its a stupid idea cause it does mean that two Sith are supposed to handle the entire Republic and Jedi order.
That's silly - I had never thought of the Emperor as a Sith, simply because if Vader was the Dark Lord of the Sith then he's the man in charge.
Also - Dooku was Yoda's apprentice, Qui-Gon was Dooku's... but that makes Ben's regret in the OT kind of pointless (I thought I could train him as well as Yoda, I failed) since Yoda also stuffed up his apprentice.
0

#6 User is offline   Despondent Icon

  • Think for yourself
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,684
  • Joined: 31-October 03
  • Location:a long time ago
  • Interests:Laughter. Louis pups. Percussion. What binds us. Bicycling, Tennis.
  • Country:United States

Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:08 AM

That's right. You'd expect the "dark lord" to be the "phantom menace".

Of course no one told me Papaltine was TPM. I figured it out myself. sleep.gif
0

#7 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

  • Champion
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,836
  • Joined: 08-April 04
  • Location:Somewhere near my collarbone
  • Interests:Food, books, movies, history, languages, religions (though I'm an atheist), miracles of nature and marvels of technology.<br /><br />Particularly: steak, the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Dark Ages in Europe, the 'created' languages, the mythologies of defunct European cultures, fish and cars.
  • Country:Australia

Posted 03 June 2005 - 09:41 PM

Truly, Lord Spondent, your powers of deduction at unravelling the stupid ambiguous titles amazes and astounds me.
Still, at least TPM has some phantom menace in it,
AOTC, which was lame to start with, is not quite so lame as the actual realistic title - Defense by the Clones.
It's interesting that the attack of the clones in AOTC lasts all of five minutes and is only used to deus ex machina between "Jedi fighitng lions" and "Yoda Kenner Action Figure, with Super Grover attack function (batteries not included)"
0

#8 User is offline   LiocModnar Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 81
  • Joined: 28-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:10 PM

Why do you assume Maul and Tyranus were working under Sidious at the same time? Sidious strikes me as a very temperamental mentor who would keep only one apprentice at a time in case they decided to gang up on him. Dooku may have had philisophical differences with the Jedi but that wouldn't necessarily guarantee Sith status. I predict Sidious used Maul until he died and then manipulated Tyranus into allying with him, most likely under the Chancellor/Count guise than the one of master/apprentice.

This post has been edited by LiocModnar: 03 June 2005 - 10:11 PM

0

#9 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

  • Champion
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,836
  • Joined: 08-April 04
  • Location:Somewhere near my collarbone
  • Interests:Food, books, movies, history, languages, religions (though I'm an atheist), miracles of nature and marvels of technology.<br /><br />Particularly: steak, the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Dark Ages in Europe, the 'created' languages, the mythologies of defunct European cultures, fish and cars.
  • Country:Australia

Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:44 PM

Read above in my post, and you'll see that I said the same kindof thing.
0

#10 User is offline   xenduck Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 328
  • Joined: 01-March 05
  • Location:Far, Far Away
  • Interests:to inspire you vast and cool intellects to regard Star Wars with more sympathetic eyes.
  • Country:United States

Posted 04 June 2005 - 12:01 AM

if you're a sith lord and you want to keep your power, would you let a bunch of other sith lords run around at the same time? there can only be one supreme ruler, so the other sith have to die. the sith got so busy fighting each other that eventually one sith killed all the rest and said there will only be two. sure that makes it tough to take on the jedi face to face, but the sith avoid face to face confrontation. and if i were sidious and i lost my apprentice, i wouldnt start from scratch id find a disgruntled jedi to be my new apprentice. and, in pure gusher fashion, i consider the title AOTC to be a forshadowing of order 66. and the clones are not a deus ex machina, they are the center of the entire movie, its not like they came outtta no where, sheesh. plus if you think about it, the seperatists were really the good guys, so the clones were the bad guys and they were attacking. after all, the republic started the war, not the seperatists. the title shows that we cant be sure who the good guys are, this aint your daddy's black and white trilogy. only a sith deals in absolutes.

This post has been edited by xenduck: 04 June 2005 - 12:01 AM

Officer! officer! quick! all my money was stolen by a man in flannel!
0

#11 User is offline   Veer Icon

  • Mini Boss
  • PipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 168
  • Joined: 30-April 05
  • Country:Canada

Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE (xenduck @ Jun 3 2005, 10:01 PM)
if you're a sith lord and you want to keep your power, would you let a bunch of other sith lords run around at the same time? there can only be one supreme ruler, so the other sith have to die.


Yes, there can be only one supreme ruler. But it makes sense for that supreme ruler to have lots of little rulers under him. You know, security in numbers. Besides, it seems that even when there are only 2 they still plot to kill one another at very opportunity.
0

#12 User is offline   GreviousMAKESmeSAD Icon

  • Henchman
  • Pip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 58
  • Joined: 25-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 08 June 2005 - 05:21 PM

I just figured always 2 there are means... If you kill a sith, there will be another one somewhere that was either his master or apprentice. Not just 2 in the universe... just like Jedi there is a master and apprentice but multiple pairs of them. It seems pretty reasonable and obvious
0

#13 User is offline   Giff Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 28-May 05
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 June 2005 - 03:45 PM

In the game KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC, the planet Korriban has an entire Sith Academy where people basically do whatever the can to enter the academy and become Sith.
0

Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size