[xenduck]

you can argue all day wether the lightside or darkside is stronger, evidence points both ways, but what it comes down to is that obi-wan and anakin were virtually an even match. they knew each other so well(obviously had the same fighting-style) that even a slight advantage predetermined the outcome of the fight. like when they have a "hand-to-hand" force pushing contest niether gains advantage based on skill or knowledge, only a grain of sand was needed to tip the scale in favor of the lightside. and yes, anakin could have done a lot of things, like not fighting obi-wan at all. he was blinded by arrogance. he could have jumped AT obi-wan, but instead he tried to jump OVER him, that was his OVER-confident mistake, thats why the lightside wins, cause the darkside is self-defeating, just like maul let himself get killed cause he was jerking around, same with sidious not paying attention to vader's conflict (or the ewoks). same with tyrannus not expecting his master would betray him. the lightside wins because it holds the high-ground, and the darkside scrambles up the hill but keeps pulling itself back down. oh crap, im preaching. hey, for the record, i am sith all the way!

This post has been edited by xenduck: 01 June 2005 - 03:47 PM

[DashRendar]

Sith arentnecessarily evil which is cool. Its mentioned in the movie that they have the same basic structure as the Jedi except they rely on their passion for their strength. The problem with Lucas is that he undermined this by making the Emperor a stereotypical evil character by making him constantly laugh and cackle. I thought that greatly took away from his battle with Yoda. I also hate the fact that there can only be two Sith, I mean it makes sense for the movie but to blatantly say it ruins many of the videogame expierences such as KOTOR, KOTOR 2 and Jedi Outcast. I know the movies are supposed to be canon, but some of the stuff from the videogame plots such as the great Jedi Sith war is awesome. Lucas is arrogance in regards to the way the movies are portrayed undermines a lot of the careful detail many people at Lucasarts put in creating a great plot for many of the games that provide him with finances. Its a shame considering some plot tweaking instead of selling out for Burger King commercials could have satisfied all parties.

[Commodore]

What about the deaths of Saesee Tin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are absolutely right on this one.

I'm don't know about Kolar, but I'm pretty sure Tin and Fisto are both on the Jedi Council. Wow...apparently you can still be a piss-poor Jedi and still be elected to the governing body of the order! Tin and Kolar just stand there stupidly while Sidious cuts them down, and Fisto spends about ten seconds dithering around and looking confused until he finally gets put out of his misery. Surely Lucas could have spent a few extra minutes making that fight look realistic!

[Dunedain]

1- "I have the high ground"

If you watch the duel closely, you'll see why he says that. When Anakin is on the droid hovering next to Obi-Wan's platform the two are on level planes, you see Anakin about to leap over to Obi-Wan's platform to melee. Obi-Wan is looking at Anakin really closely. Anakin does his quick leap and Obi-Wan swipes at Anakin's legs but just barely misses. Anakin lands behind him and the melee continues.

When Obi-Wan jumps onto the bank, he says "I have the high ground" and is meaning "Hey, when we were on level planes, I swiped and missed- but if you jump this time, I have the height advantage and will swipe your legs off, so don't try it." That's the point of that.

So, then, sure you can say "Anakin should've done such and such" but that isn't the point. The point is that Anakin was so arrogant that he was going to "prove" Obi-Wan wrong. He is so uber in his own mind, that he's going to do the exact same leap AGAIN, and Obi-Wan is going to swipe and miss AGAIN, and Anakin is going to land and start kissing his muscles and saying "shaddup! shaddup!" to the booing crowd. But, of course, overconfidence is the downfall of the Sith and Anakin gets schooled on the monkey-bars of hurt by Obi-Wan.

2- "lava droid appears during catwalk melee"

I'm not sure about this, but I would think the "peek" of the lava droid was intended to show "see this droid? okay, now that you saw it, you'll know what Anakin is standing on later" so that people wouldn't be going "what the hell is he standing on?"

3- "inability of Jedi to sense danger"

In AOTC Mace flatly says the Jedi ability to use the force had been diminished. Yoda flatly said that the dark side was clouding everything. I'm not sure why anyone would complain about diminished Jedi abilities when its said flat-out in the movie that that is the case.

4- "Order 66"

Since the powers of the Jedi had been diminished, and the clones weren't really "evil" and thinking "let's kill these suckers", Order 66 is fine. The clones were simply obeying orders. They had no "malice" or such, it was simply "kill Jedi- follow order", not really "let's betray the Jedi- mwahahaha". For all intents and purposes, the clones are just bio-electrical droids. Order 66 was dark genius. Divide and conquer. In fact, Sidious' entire scheme throughout e1-3 was diabolical genius at its best.

5- "The Jedi had lost their luster"

Yes, that was the entire basis of the story from e1. Qui-Gon knew it and was open about it. The Jedi had become a group of pharisees, and the force decided to wipe them out.

6- "Vader's 'noooooo'"

Worked fine for me. Perfect analogy to Luke's same reaction to the most horrible news. "That's impossible! Noooooo!" Fine as it was.

[Dunedain]

"midichlorians"

I'm pretty much with you on this one. It doesn't really bother me to some horrific extreme, but I don't know why he decided to throw that in. Should've been nixed.

At first, I was sure that the clone wars would involve cloning Jedi, and that the midichlorian introduction was just a way to show that Jedi could be cloned with force abilities.

Now I don't know why it was brought up.

[Dunedain]

But, on the other hand- now that I think about it- midichlorians do help explain the OT a lot better. And that being that "the force is strong in my family" statement by Luke. Some sort of biological heredity is implied. I guess midichlorians help that statement make more sense.

Unless mystical energy fields run in families.

[i don't like sand]

After watching the Prequel Trilogy I have lost all respect for the Jedi.  They lost all their lustre.  Let me provide you with some examples.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, one more thing that made the Jedi uncool: placing the Jedi Academy right in the middle of a giant noisy sterile city. You would think that the Jedi would be trained someplace a bit more...natural. Someplace teeming with trees and plants and wildlife.

However, while Lucas' portrayal of the Jedi sucks, I don't think it should permanently ruin our own interpretations of what the Jedi should be, and what we imagined from the original trilogy. The prequels are merely just another piece of mediocre fanfiction.

[Casual Fan]

You all forget what came before Anakin's leap in the duel between Obi Wan and Anakin. The two stand on what look like to be rocks, and actually surf down the lava flow, having at it with their light sabers all the time.

I mean, COME ON.

[Dark_Sith]

1. At the end of the Phantom Menace Mace Windu and Yoda discuss the mystery of Obiwans attacker and Qui Cons murderer. The line, "which was killed the master or the apprentice" bothered me. As powerful Jedi, Windu and Yoda should have known better than to think the Sith Master would reveal himself so easily and blatantly by attacking the Jedi on Naboo. Would a Sth Master, yes a master do all the dirty work himself revealing all his plans and putting his life in danger? Of course not he would send his lackey to do it, granted Maul was a powerful lackey at that.

Now this is bullshit. If you recall, the Sith have been in hiding for over a 1,000 years. NO ONE knew whether it would be the master or the apprentice. NO ONE on the council had any idea what they were up against. Qui-Gon didn't even know what he was up against. NO ONE knew Maul was the apprentice, all they were doing was playing by guessing and what they knew about this mysterious fighter, who happened to be Darth Maul. They didn't know who they killed. You don't see Darth Maul going up to the Jedi and saying, "HI, I'm the apprentice to the Sith Lord Darth Sidious who is really Senator Palpatine." It's just bullshit to think that Yoda and Windu should know better, THEY DIDN"T KNOW who they were attacking. You can't immidiately tell who you are fighting.

[CowboyCurtis]

What does it matter that it was the apprentice or the master. The Jedi still didn't do their duty to investigate.

The Jedi in the prequels are absolute idiots. First, here are some ways they could've figured out who Maul was: He obviously left some blood behind, sample it, find out what race he was, and go to his planet and investigate. Who he was, what did he do? You know, Maul left a ship behind. I bet that had all kinds of clues in it. Who built it? Where has it been? It must have navigation logs, right? (He's been to Coruscant?---hmmm---interesting) If Obi-Wan can figure out where a lousy little "saber-dart" came from, then a Jedi with HALF his brain could figure out where Maul came from, and inevitably figure out who he's been chummy with.

As a sidenote, Jango left more clues than the saber-dart. For pete's sake, where did the centipedes come from? Jango is the one who had them. Why didn't Obi-Wan cross reference Jango's battle-suit? If the council computer couldn't figure out the origins of the saber-dart, at least it could identify some armor. And don't tell me Obi-Wan didn't get a good look at him... aren't Jedi supposedly keen minded? Well, from the prequels representation, I guess not.

Again, the PT's only work if you accept that the Jedi are morons.

[Queen of Corellia]

  Why didn't Obi-Wan cross reference Jango's battle-suit?  If the council computer couldn't figure out the origins of the saber-dart, at least it could identify some armor.

I've always assumed that the analysis droids couldn't identify the dart because all information about Kamino had been erased from the Jedi computers. (You'd think the Kaminoans would start to wonder what was up. "We haven't had a visitor in ten years. And we stopped getting our 'Reader's Digests'.") So, if Obi-Wan did look up Jango's armor, he wouldn't've found anything in the archives. Anyway, if it was me, I much rather call up everyone who owed me a favor and tell them, "Look at this dart and tell me where it's from!" than look at three billion mugshots of bounty hunters.

[DashRendar]

I've always assumed that the analysis droids couldn't identify the dart because all information about Kamino had been erased from the Jedi computers. (You'd think the Kaminoans would start to wonder what was up. "We haven't had a visitor in ten years. And we stopped getting our 'Reader's Digests'.") So, if Obi-Wan did look up Jango's armor, he wouldn't've found anything in the archives. Anyway, if it was me, I much rather call up everyone who owed me a favor and tell them, "Look at this dart and tell me where it's from!" than look at three billion mugshots of bounty hunters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To my recollection, and I may be wrong so spare me the flames but there was a Jedi from Kamino (Im pretty damn sure) on the council during the Phantom Menace. If you don't believe and If I got a wrong look at him see for yourself. If I am wrong I do apologize.

[DashRendar]

Now this is bullshit. If you recall, the Sith have been in hiding for over a 1,000 years. NO ONE knew whether it would be the master or the apprentice. NO ONE on the council had any idea what they were up against. Qui-Gon didn't even know what he was up against. NO ONE knew Maul was the apprentice, all they were doing was playing by guessing and what they knew about this mysterious fighter, who happened to be Darth Maul. They didn't know who they killed. You don't see Darth Maul going up to the Jedi and saying, "HI, I'm the apprentice to the Sith Lord Darth Sidious who is really Senator Palpatine." It's just bullshit to think that Yoda and Windu should know better, THEY DIDN"T KNOW who they were attacking. You can't immidiately tell who you are fighting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]


WHAT? You have got to be kidding me! Nothing says Sith more than a red light saber. And as I recall Oui Con told the Council that he was attacked by a Sith assailant or was it well trained in the Jedi Arts, I can't remember I think it was both actually once to Obi Wan once to the Council. And so what if the Sith have been hiding for 1,000 years? Are we to assume that the Jedi have become so complacent that they forgot who their own nemesis is or how they operate? I don't think so. The Jedi are dumb down to further the plot. A sith lord wouldn't reveal himself so blatantly, its obvious, they are startegists, why would Sidious take a massive gamble and attack the Jedi prematurely losing his only advantage and quite possibly his life? So he sent his apprentice. If you think Obi Wan didn't know what he was fighting think again, after all if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck (I think I got that right) guess what it is?

This post has been edited by DashRendar: 02 June 2005 - 01:27 PM

[Twig Bear]

So, if Obi-Wan did look up Jango's armor, he wouldn't've found anything in the archives.

But Fett didn't wear armour of Kaminoan design, it was Mandalorian. Mandalorian arms and armour, equipment, supplies, tactics, etc. would have been in the Jedi archives. They would have been in the Tatooine Public Library for fuck's sake.

The Jedi really were stupid in the prequels. Just complete morons. The detectives from Law and Order, the crime scene investigators from CSI, and the soldier/lawyer/demi-gods from JAG cold have done a better job than the Jedi did. If you had made Judge Judy a Senator, Palpatine wouldn't have made it into the Senate without being detected.

How can the best Jedi master in all the history of the Jedi order (20,000 years or more) not notice some silly ass Sith Lord sitting across the table? Its proposterous.

[CowboyCurtis]

If you had made Judge Judy a Senator, Palpatine wouldn't have made it into the Senate without being detected.

ROTFLMAO!!!

ow can the best Jedi master in all the history of the Jedi order (20,000 years or more) not notice some silly ass Sith Lord sitting across the table? Its proposterous.

Too true! This could've been avoided if a) Jedi weren't located on Coruscant The Jedi were little more like Rangers c) they weren't allowed to see the Chancellor... which would spike up suspiscion.

I would've liked the prequels more if the Jedi suspected Palpatine from the beginning and the rest of Republic just ignored them and thought they were going against a leader who was winning the war.