[DashRendar]

Hey guys I am a long time reader first time poster here. Chefelf your site is excellent and your reasons for hating the prequel movies are proof to any gusher that Epic Duds 1 and 2 are irrefutlably bad movies. I was once a huge Star Wars fan. As a kid there something about the Death Star attack and the Battle of Hoth that captivated me. As I grew older the parts of the OT that bored me as a kid became more interesting then the battles. The parts on Dagobah are incredible, Yoda's explanation of the force impeccable. Of course the coolest thing of all was the Jedi. The OT did a great job making you imagine what the Republic encompassed during the the glory days of the Jedi before the rise of Vader, Sidious and the Empire. Even though many people bash the Expanded Universe I enjoyed the consistencies it maintained in regards to the Force and what it meant to be a Jedi. After watching the Prequel Trilogy I have lost all respect for the Jedi. They lost all their lustre. Let me provide you with some examples.


1. At the end of the Phantom Menace Mace Windu and Yoda discuss the mystery of Obiwans attacker and Qui Cons murderer. The line, "which was killed the master or the apprentice" bothered me. As powerful Jedi, Windu and Yoda should have known better than to think the Sith Master would reveal himself so easily and blatantly by attacking the Jedi on Naboo. Would a Sth Master, yes a master do all the dirty work himself revealing all his plans and putting his life in danger? Of course not he would send his lackey to do it, granted Maul was a powerful lackey at that.
2. Midicholrians....What was Lucas smoking? This garbage could have easily been avoided. I know Lucas was trying to portray Anakin as a powerful Jedi and that was the main purpose of his high midicholrian count but cmon. Qui Con could have just said in Anakins presence, "Ive never sensed such a strong connection to the force in someone, even after being in Master Yoda's presence."
3. Inability of the Jedi to sense danger at convienent moments. This takes the cake. This is most prevelant in Episode 3. I can understand a Sith Lord masking his power in front of the Jedi, yes believe it or not I can cope with that. Perhaps the Jedi having not encountered a Sith Lord in a Milennia, besides Obi Wan underestimated the power of the force. What I can't understand was how the Clones so easily disposed of some of the prominent council Jedi without them sensing the betrayal. Ayala Secura, after years of Jedi training is shot in the back dozens of times before she can react to the treachery. The Jedi on the speeder has two clones reduce speed to her rear and she senses absolutely nothing before being blasted. Plo Koon same deal. Ki Adi Mundi at least died a warriors death, I can respect that. Is it me or did Lucas forget what a Jedi could do? Christ its his story right, he should know that a Jedi can utilize the force to jump extremely high, something Secura could have done to avoid being killed. What about the deaths of Saesee Tin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto. These guys looked badass. They lasted a whole two seconds against Sidious. I don't buy that bullshit that they were stunned because he was a Sithlord. Hello , your a Jedi remember I am sure you can block a lightsaber strike after your enemy performs a triple plancha and then takes 10 seconds to set up for the death blow. All that training, and what do you show for it when the big dance finally comes? You die a pathetic death. Shame on Lucas for wasting an oppurtunity there to make both the Jedi and Sidious look strong. I find it funny that we are introduced to all these character over the span of three movies and the Jedi that dies the most heroically is that padawan (convienently Lucas' son) who kills about 6 or 7 clones before he is mowed down outside the Jedi Temple in Bail Organa's presence.
4. The whole I have the high ground advantage bullshit. Ummmm right an advantage, because Jedi aren't known for jumped extremely high distances. What was really funny about this scene was just seconds before Anakin threw himself at Obi Wans light saber he jumped an incredible distance from a flaming platform onto a conviently placed lava droid. God forbid the chosen one loses in a fair fight. What a load of shit. I would have reworked the entire ending. I would have had Obi Wan kill Anakin after a fercious duel, only for Sidious to revive Anakin from the dead. That would have solidified Sidious as Plagieus' apprentice, and it would have dramatically demonstrated the transition from Anakin to Darth Vader. To fill the viod from Episode 3 to 4 perhaps we could have had Obi Wan sensing the return of Vader from the dead. And instead of that pathetically generic nooooooooooooooo that Vader screams when he discovers Padme's death he should have grabbed Sidious by the throat and elevated him as he did to that rebel in Episode 4. Sidious could have restrained him by telling him that the Jedi had turned Padme against him subsequently leading to her death thus solidifying his position alongisde Sidious.

Anyways I hope I don't get flamed. I though ROTS was an alright movie on its own. If you like my opinions please let me know, and if you don't please tell me how you would have done things, Im always open to others opinions and Im sure most of you have a greater creative mind than I possess! Thanks for reading!

[DashRendar]

Sorry for the double post!!!!!!!

[Mnesymone]

Not a problem.
Your thing of Sidious reviving Anakin as Darth Vader... that's a cool thought - it would explain Obi-Wan's white lie in Star Wars much better than the existing prequels, it means you get to see a strong Emperor (rather than a 'too weak' one), and those of us who needed something strong to drink after "I don't like sand" could watch Anakin die.
It would also mean we don't get 'noooooo' - because if the Emperor revived Vader he wouldn't have created someone who goes "noooo!"

That being said, I did like ROTS... much much more than Send in the Clones and the Phantom Memory

[Paladin]

After watching the Prequel Trilogy I have lost all respect for the Jedi. They lost all their lustre. Let me provide you with some examples.

Same here, Dash, same here. I always thought that the Jedi were cool warriors that would have kept the galaxy safe and everything working smoothly, but the utter stupidity of the Prequels, their portrayal of the Jedi, and how easily they could be toyed with and defeated just takes out all what was good about the Jedi and turns them into something contemptable. They're that bad in the prequels.

This is why I generally want to put Star Wars behind me. I didn't watch Episode III in the theaters because I didn't want to spend any money there. Instead, I'll be buying it on video, watch it once alone, then with my movie marathon. I don't know whether or not it came out on video yet, but it will sooner than later.

It would also mean we don't get 'noooooo' - because if the Emperor revived Vader he wouldn't have created someone who goes "noooo!"

Darth Vader doesn't make any sense anymore. His so called 'turn to evil' is so utterly stupid that only a little kid could believe it. I didn't watch the movie yet, but I did read several quotes from the movie on the IMDB.com, and they weren't encouraging... but then again, I never expected anything good to come out of that movie anyway.

[ForceHippo]

4.  The whole I have the high ground advantage bullshit.  Ummmm right an advantage, because Jedi aren't known for jumped extremely high distances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really liked this point. While I for now can buy that as Anakin being portrayed as so much more powerful than Obi there would have to be special circumstances to allow Obi to emerge victorious, this should have been done in another way. If higher ground has any relevance in a duel I think we have been cheated of quite a few cut off limbs from prior duels. Take for instance the end of the Maul/Obi duel - there I would actually be able to believe the higher ground explanation!

[Despondent]

Great points, Dash. I also really liked the Darth dies, comes back to life. I mean, rip off the ressurection part from Christianity while you're at it, GL (maybe virgin pregnancy isn't exclusively Christian, but to the US audience that's the most obvious.) But all the parts were there: Ability to create life, Anikan killed. ANOTHER missed opportunity to entertain the 13 and up crowd.

I have the high ground sounded like an empty threat to me. Akin to Always a bigger fish. Maybe Obi-wan was speaking in a morality sense. No, it was just stupid.

[CowboyCurtis]

Great points! And great ideas! Yeah, why doesn't Lucas go the whole nine yards! If you're going to do the "Immaculate conception" thing why don't we have him come back from the dead, too?!

That could've been very dramatic... Anakin comes back and the look on Obi-Wan's face! Yesss! I like it!

[Failureboy2]

What was really funny about this scene was just seconds before Anakin threw himself at Obi Wans light saber he jumped an incredible distance from a flaming platform  onto a conviently placed lava droid.  God forbid the chosen one loses in a fair fight.  What a load of shit. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And did you notice how that lava droid appeared as they were fighting on the catwalk? It very clearly pokes its head up to see what's going on, and your attention goes from the boring, flashing sabers to the droid.

"Wow, look at Anakin and Obiwan fight/dance! I wonder who's going t...oh HEY there, little droid."

But I pretty much ignored the higher ground line. It almost felt like a joke on Obiwan's part, like he'd had enough and was about to kill him no matter what ground anyone was on. But I agree that it's a load of shit.

[xenduck]

funny, i loved the high ground bit. there is that understated feeling of moral superiority, harkening back to the supposed age of chivalry, where the victory was the most faithful. but more than that i got the idea of two men who had trained together, knew each others strengths and weaknesses, and obi-wan exploited that to 'win'. it also showed anakin's misplaced faith in the darkside; in himself. it framed the PT wonderfully by mimicing maul's death. maul was cocky on the high ground, overconfident. obi-wan was realistic when he was up-to-bat, he knew the risks involved in such a maneuvre cause hed done it himself. but i wonder if obi-wan didnt flaunt his advantage just so anakin would feel obligated to fight on obi's terms.

anakin being brought back to life would have been lame, it would have validated the darkside, it would have made sidious a saint who was all the while telling the truth and trying to save padme, trying to save the republic from the dogmatic jedi. it would have made the ghosts in the OT seem retarded since the darkside would have just reserrected them and they could have been immortal.

This post has been edited by xenduck: 01 June 2005 - 01:31 PM

[Lord Melkor]

Are those really enough reasons to hate Star Wars?

I agree with the Sidious fight being a let down but Obi-wan had a tactical advantage- Anakin had to jump to him!

[DashRendar]

Hey guys appreciate the feedback!


Ya Xenduck you are right to an extent. Sidious bringing back Anakin would have validated the dark side. But whose to say that he didn't already validate it throughout the prequels. If the dark side wasn't strong how do you explain Palpatine hiding his identity from the Seperatists, Republic Senate and the Jedi at the same time? The man was also able to hide his identity in the close presence of the most powerful Jedi, Yoda included. Remember though never underestimate the power of the darkside. Anakin being brought to life would have made sense in my mind, it would have convinced him he made the right decision, and on top of that it would have made him wanna stay at the Emperors side. It was the easy way out, it was a cope out, everybody knows that he may have been brough back to life, but he lost his soul in the process, that can be perhaps the true nature of the dark side. Sure makes things for me a lot scarier. It solidifies the whole prophecy story, something I hated. I mean now the prophecy is unaviodable, Sidious in his arrogance would unknowingly be sealing his own fate by resurrecting Vader.

[DashRendar]

Are those really enough reasons to hate Star Wars?

I agree with the Sidious fight being a let down but Obi-wan had a tactical advantage- Anakin had to jump to him!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anakin didnt have to jump at him. He could have jumped a lot higher landing a few meters behind him, or he could have jumped two feet and landed on the sloping hill safely in front of Obi Wan.


High ground is an advantage in warfare no doubt, but Anakin could have easily jumped to higher ground himself and pressed the battle on.

[andy_k_250]

funny, i loved the high ground bit. there is that understated feeling of moral superiority, harkening back to the supposed age of chivalry, where the victory was the most faithful. but more than that i got the idea of two men who had trained together, knew each others strengths and weaknesses, and obi-wan exploited that to 'win'. it also showed anakin's misplaced faith in the darkside; in himself. it framed the PT wonderfully by mimicing maul's death. maul was cocky on the high ground, overconfident. obi-wan was realistic when he was up-to-bat, he knew the risks involved in such a maneuvre cause hed done it himself. but i wonder if obi-wan didnt flaunt his advantage just so anakin would feel obligated to fight on obi's terms.

anakin being brought back to life would have been lame, it would have validated the darkside, it would have made sidious a saint who was all the while telling the truth and trying to save padme, trying to save the republic from the dogmatic jedi. it would have made the ghosts in the OT seem retarded since the darkside would have just reserrected them and they could have been immortal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[andy_k_250]

funny, i loved the high ground bit. there is that understated feeling of moral superiority, harkening back to the supposed age of chivalry, where the victory was the most faithful. but more than that i got the idea of two men who had trained together, knew each others strengths and weaknesses, and obi-wan exploited that to 'win'. it also showed anakin's misplaced faith in the darkside; in himself. it framed the PT wonderfully by mimicing maul's death. maul was cocky on the high ground, overconfident. obi-wan was realistic when he was up-to-bat, he knew the risks involved in such a maneuvre cause hed done it himself. but i wonder if obi-wan didnt flaunt his advantage just so anakin would feel obligated to fight on obi's terms.

anakin being brought back to life would have been lame, it would have validated the darkside, it would have made sidious a saint who was all the while telling the truth and trying to save padme, trying to save the republic from the dogmatic jedi. it would have made the ghosts in the OT seem retarded since the darkside would have just reserrected them and they could have been immortal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that. It really displayed how arrogant Anakin had become. He had to personally choose to be a cocky ass, he had to personally choose to turn to the Dark Side, otherwise it would not have been worth hearing about.

[snaithbert]

4.  The whole I have the high ground advantage bullshit.  Ummmm right an advantage, because Jedi aren't known for jumped extremely high distances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent point!!

And yet another reason why the final confrontation is so unsatisfying.

Two great forces (no pun intended) collide in one final battle, the battle we've been waiting 30 years to see. And what is the thing that decides the fate of the battle? Is it will? Destiny? Sheer determination?

No, it's the fact that one guy is standing a foot higher than the other.

Way to bring it back down to earth, Lucas.

I'm surprised he didn't just have Obi Wan tie Anakin's shoelaces together and then Anakin trips and falls into the lava.

The confrontation has no grandeur, no majesty. It's boring and by the numbers and the fact that Obi Wan wins because he's higher than Anakin really robs the finale of depth and scope.

According to Lucas, good triumphing over evil isn't a matter of humanity or emotion- it's a matter of the proper footing.

Just plain stupid.