[Taye]

With the holidays having recently been passed, I have come across a familiar question. I am an Atheist, but I celebrate Christmas. My mother has always celebrated it in our house, and I have carried that on for a few reasons. To keep up the tradition, to keep up the semblance of religion in the face of my extended family, and because I love the optimistic warm feeling of togetherness that the holidays bring.

To me Christmas is for the idea of Santa Claus and for family, not for Christ. Is it X-mas then, and is it wrong to celebrate it?

[Slade]

You shouldn't need an excuse to celebrate love and giving. And there are a billion other holidays that occur on or around the winter solstice. But Christmas has gone rather secular anyway. Well, technically, people worship the dollar and the assembly line, but I don't know if that counts...

[Spoon Poetic]

"Christmas" was originally the celebration of the Winter Solstice. Jesus was actually born sometime in October or something, I believe. Taking a celebration that already existed (winter solstice) and changing it just a little bit made it easier for people to accept Christianty; because they still got to keep their traditions. This was done with tons of things in the Christian religion.

Besides - in being an atheist, can anything be "wrong?" You've nothing to answer to or for, so do what you like. Celebrate whatever holiday you like for the fellowship and fun and generosity and spirit, and who cares where it originated or what it means to some people (and not others).

[Dr Lecter]

This is true, infact if anything, its almost completely unlikely since no-one that they spoke to that was around during Jesus' time sai any dates even remotely near December. Some swear blinding it was as early as October, some say it was no eariler than Mid-January. The truth of that matter is really that it was chosen, just like the Christian bible, where Gospels that didn't agree with the Church leaders were buried and forgotten, thought to be destroyed. To be quite honest, I believe Christianity abused its own "saviour", by editting the Bible and his story to justify racism and sexism.

What this has to do with X-mas, you tell me, but either way, I only celebrate because my parents do and its an excuse to free stuff from them.

[Deepsycher]

I was originally told a long time ago that Jesus was born on 25th of December, which was why it was called "Christmas", and someone called Santa Claus who made secret visits, by climbing down chimneys to deliver gifts. I remember it was proclaimed in books brought for me at the time. Not that I believed it.

Do not know what to believe, led by these conflictions:

One church group says that Jesus's birthday is in January because of a change in time, which will lead back to December that year.
Another church group says that Jesus's birthday is in late October and recently celebrated in December because of the convenience of holidays, but no change in time.
I have heard to many versions from different churches, which goes towards why they work in groups.


I do believe, that Santa could be the work of merchants who made their way down large chimneys when convenient, to an association of the three wise men:

http://www.snopes.co...elore/santa.asp

But I do think it is disrespectful to put too much of Santa Claus over the space of Jesus, that some people forget about the meaning. For the commercial side, it might not be their guilt if the day was moved. To celebrate Santa Claus and Christmas separately, precisely to date may highlight the meanings to prevent confusion.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 03 January 2006 - 02:09 PM

[ion eon]

X-Mas happened because people were too lazy to write Christ...oh damn X it is then

[Deepsycher]

X-Mas happened because people were too lazy to write Christ...oh damn X it is then

Did not think of that, but also meaning "X" for unknown. Unknownmas, to entice people of the unknown gifts they get for Christmas.

[Revan-47]

There is no problem with celebrating the commercialism side of christmas. but i ask anybody who does, do not dis people who like the christ part.

[Mirithorn]

I don't belong to a specific religion, but I like them all. As far as I'm concerned, the more holidays to celebrate, the better and I get to celebrate a couple of them at the same time with Christmas.

[Deepsycher]

There is no problem with celebrating the commercialism side of christmas. but i ask anybody who does, do not dis people who like the christ part.

We all have our beliefs and I agree a balance is needed.
On the commercial side, it appears to have taken over in some places, like I do not see as many Jesus Christ films, as there used to be years ago and less church ceremonies on television.

When I see an advert on television, and outside shops, they associate the meaning of Christmas by encouraging shoppers to buy quantities of products cheaply. The quality of most of the products I want are the reasons why I have to search a long way. It could be looked upon as an excuse to market cheap stuff. When rightfully done with consideration of quality, could satisfy and meet the needs of most shoppers. Unless the shoppers do not care or notice.

Not saying it is a bad thing in general, but too much of quantity and too less quality is. I hope that changes one day with enough complaints to shops.

To be fair on the religious side, adverts to encourage people to join religious forces to that day, by practicing in churches.

I believe at this moment, that religions are ways of addressing the same force but in another form. Might change my mind about that, one day when I discover more information.

Also to add, one celebration for Santa Claus and one for Jesus, at different dates to send out a clearer message.

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 03 January 2006 - 08:33 PM

[Slade]

The gift giving/Santa came in part from norse mythology, when Odin swooped by and gave candy to children if they left carrots in their shoes for his horse Slepnir to eat.

I don't mind a large amalagam of holidays. I do mind people fighting over tickle-me Elmo dolls.

[Despondent]

"X" was shorthand for "Christ". Knowing that, "X-mas" is not lacking spiritual significance.

[Deepsycher]

The gift giving/Santa came in part from norse mythology, when Odin swooped by and gave candy to children if they left carrots in their shoes for his horse Slepnir to eat.

I don't mind a large amalagam of holidays. I do mind people fighting over tickle-me Elmo dolls.

Makes sense to me, as for trading the carrots in the form of bartering. Shame it is not practiced much anymore. Other than the story about a town who bartered, did not deal in money, and was taken to court because they did not pay taxes, but the case was thrown out.

Trading unwanted presents for wanted goods at christmas without money, is not so greedy and no excuse to waste.

[Deepsycher]

"X" was shorthand for "Christ". Knowing that, "X-mas" is not lacking spiritual significance.

I cannot see how "X" is associated or if it represents the symbol of the cross.




Quote "I do mind people fighting over tickle-me Elmo dolls."


From my experience on some reasons why people fight is partially receiving too much of unnecessary gifts: The stuff brought was wrongfully or unequally allocated to those who asked for it. It is better to ask exactly who wants what, than assume. So mistakes like this are less likely happen. This way they can take the "X" out of unknown and there won't be much surprises followed by "fighting". This could help people know where they stand with gifts instead of promises.

Do not know how many experienced this: Years ago many people stated, selfish behaviour for not making use and criticising the quality of their expensive presents. I generally ask "do not to buy me any presents, or give the receipt so it won't go in waste". As I ask the precise presents they need so they won't be disappointed. Giving free equipment even if not needed, and people from long foreign distances are exceptional.

I have seen a situation on buying too much of unwanted items that does not serve a purpose to an individual, and expecting that individual to make use out of all. They say it is the thought that goes into it, but the wrong type of thought, without asking. Now I call that selfish, if the buyer becomes aggressive by their own sentimental values; when asked for the receipt, or swapping equally with someone who will have better use for it.

This is the society I see around, too many presents and less spiritual activity.

Not sure who shares my point of view here?

This post has been edited by Deepsycher: 04 January 2006 - 11:16 AM

[ion eon]

Get over the whole X-mas thing and just write Christ. That is what the holiday was originally about, not a comercialistic bonanza of people spending too much money on trivial inconsequential gifts. Although that necessarily isnt a bad thing