[Darth Player]

Jabba is perhaps the most non threatening supposed super villian in movie history. Basically, Han was afraid to be late on payments to an intergallactic crime lord who only liked to watch dance numbers and feed his Rancor. He's pathetic, dump him, or explain what happened to Mrs.Jabba from ATOC or why a super slug likes humanoid women.

[Revan-47]

I'd rather have no Jabba at all. All that the scene does is expand on what Greedo said in the cantina. That scene wasn't overly relevent to the story either (other than the establish Han's character... in the ORIGINAL version). The scene looks badly done, there's simply no way to get it looking right. Lucas seems to have this obsession with the scene, but it really doesn't do ANYTHING for the plot other than confirming information that we don't need to know.

Scenes like Toshe Station, however, are a bit more important as they establish Biggs' character (and make his death in the Battle of Yavin more powerful) and also show us some of Luke's friends. In the final cut of ANH, Luke is made out to be a total loner who just works on a farm with his aunt and uncle. I'd have liked to have seen a slightly more social side to him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ive never seen that scene with biggs.Is there any place its at?

[Revan-47]

Jabba is perhaps the most non threatening supposed super villian in movie history. Basically, Han was afraid to be late on payments to an intergallactic crime lord who only liked to watch dance numbers and feed his Rancor. He's pathetic, dump him, or explain what happened to Mrs.Jabba from ATOC or why a super slug likes humanoid women.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hutts are A sexual. They change to females when they age. Its in the books.

[Despondent]

I'll take your word for it.

But that still doesn't explain Leia. Although he has Han too. I guess he's a collector.

btw, when carbonized Han fell (Whump!) to the floor, I suppose QG was "force" guiding which direction he landed. (heads up). that was fortunate.

Actually, that's from ESB isn't it? never mind.

[Darth Player]

I didn'tknow about the Hutt asexuality. I thoought the Hutt name implied the house/order he was from. Otherwise saying "Jabba the Hutt" would be like saying "Wattoo the flying bad Arab stereotype thingie", redundant, in a trilogy of redundencies. But there was another Hutt shown next to what I assumed to be Jabba in TPM and I was curious as to what happened, whether Jabba the guy as I assumed threw the Mrs into the Rancor pit as he secretly and obviously hopes to be a humanoid, hence the attraction to Leia and her predecessor.

[Be The Reds!]

Star Wars was good in that each new character surprised you.

In ANH we were mildly surprised to learn that Ben Kenobi that Luke Spoke of was Obi-Wan. Not a huge surprise, but surprising enough.

In ESB we get the surprise that this annoying short green thing that bothers Luke is actually a Jedi Master. And we hate ourselves for being predjudiced and thinking otherwise at first like Luke does.

In ROJ we are surprised to finally see Jabba after hearing about him in the last two movies, but not knowing what he looked like.

If you add Jabba to ANH, you take a huge surprise away.

(Also if you watch the prequels first, you take the surprise of Yoda away, and "I am your Father" isn't so surprising either.)

[CowboyCurtis]

Be the Reds! I've heard your points before, but they are worth repeating. The prequels do completely demean anything of value in the OT.

It therefore has been my opinion that Lucas is intentionally ruining these films because he hates them.

[DarthTherion]

The prequels do completely demean anything of value in the OT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the prequels actually add to the final battle in ROTJ, Luke's temptation, and Vader's redemption. There's a thread on it in the ROTJ section here ("Vader's Redemption")

Have you watched the OT all the way through after seeing the prequels, Cowboy? Which part of the original movies is most ruined by the prequels, do you think? (I have not yet had the big marathon of 4-6, 1-3)

[CowboyCurtis]

Have you watched the OT all the way through after seeing the prequels, Cowboy? Which part of the original movies is most ruined by the prequels, do you think? (I have not yet had the big marathon of 4-6, 1-3)

Yes, I have, and now I am on an "OT only diet."

Parts that are ruined for me:

1) Yoda is no longer the unique character he is in ESB because we've seen him overdone and beaten into the ground in the PT.

2) Vader just doesn't seem as sinister and threatening as he once did. Knowing that he was either that silly little kid in TPM or the whiny teenager in AOTC and the whiny "adult" in ROTS makes the character less impressive. His silly gooey-eyed affection for Padme is so bad it makes me sick! Yeah, Vader has taken a big hit! Especially when Lucas calls him pathetic, when Vader was never that in the OT.

3) Obi-Wan takes a big hit, too! He's never called "Ben" in the PT. He's made to be delusional and a pathological liar, which is not the character I was given in ANH/ESB. He says Anakin was a great starpilot when he first met him---he isn't, he's a pod-racer. He says that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when he was old enough---was never said in any form or fashion. Obi-Wan basically just steals Anakin's lightsaber and walks away. The honorable, patient, likeable Ben is missing in the PT.

4) Knowing now that C3P0 was created by Anakin is so wrong in so many ways. It makes the SW universe claustrophobic, and doesn't work for me in any way.

5) Giving R2 all of these abilities in the PT and knowing that he has them, but then doesn't reproduce any of these abilities or skills in the OT is also a big mistake.

6) The technology in the PT is so different and the design of things are so different that they just don't mesh. They are like two different sagas.

7) I'm no longer in awe of the "Clone WarS" which Obi-Wan mentions to Luke. In fact, I'm rather disappointed.

8) Lucas uses CGI to flash and dazzle and make the PTs look better than the OT. There is crap going EVERYWHERE---he's trying to outdo the OT and by being over the top he not only ruins the PT. This ruins the OT for me because it seems like he doesn't like it and hasn't accepted that the OT was good, and that he doesn't believe in subtlety.

9) Seeing the DS at the end of ROTS ruins the DS for me in ANH because we get a first awesome look at a powerful weapon. It cracks me up that it took twenty-flipping years to build it and only two-three to build the DS in ROTJ. (The DS2 in ROTJ demeans the DS in ANH. Again, it's Lucas' lack of subtlety--"They loved the original DS, they'll REALLY love the new DS because it's...um.. ten times bigger! Yeah!")

10) Vader's revelation to Luke that he's his father no longer has the same impact it did for me. It seems so hollow and pointless.

Is that enough? I'm sure I can come up with more...

This post has been edited by CowboyCurtis: 10 July 2005 - 09:16 AM

[diligent_d]

All very good points. I agree with every one of them and could probably add about fourteen-hundred additional ones.

[SithAvenger]

I completely agree with you Cowboy.

[Otal Nimrodi]

I wish someone had said that in the grievances thread. I wanted to refute it, it looked like a fun thing to do. But outside of the grievances, I am not a fanboy.

[Ham Salad]

I like Jabba in A New Hope. We got to see him while he was younger and a little more svelte, still out in the streets shaking down debtors himself. ROTJ shows him in his cappo glory years of decadence and sloth, so morbidly obese from non-stop partying, coke sessions and frog eating that he can't even lift himself from his bed on wheels. He's SW's version of the Godfather. I think Salacious Crumb is a nod to Sonny Corleone.

[CowboyCurtis]

But it doesn't jibe with TPM where it shows him AGAIN in his cappo glory years of decadence and sloth, so morbidly obese, etc...

What were things SO bad in the Empire years, even for criminals, that Jabba went on a salad diet during ANH?

(Coincidentally, I'm posting after you, HS)....

[Ham Salad]

But it doesn't jibe with TPM where it shows him AGAIN in his cappo glory years of decadence and sloth, so morbidly obese, etc...

What were things SO bad in the Empire years, even for criminals, that Jabba went on a salad diet during ANH? 

(Coincidentally, I'm posting after you, HS)....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm that's true. (fanboy powers activate!): Okey dokey, here's the deal. Jabba burned all his cash on strippers, frogs, and coke from TPM on. Then factor the big loan payed to Han, which Han kept failing to repay. Jabba was down and out...obviously. It takes him years to get back to make his comeback and to be pimpin' like Notorious J.A.B. again with a mansion, yacht, pit bull, and white bitches in bikinis.