[Radu094]

I know The Republic is about to fall and all because Jedi aren't so powerfull anymore,etc... but I wonder : why do Jedi needed to be such dumbases?

In the end, if you look carefull, it wasn't Sidious that brought Anakin to the Dark Side ™. It was the fucking Jedi that pushed him over the edge.

ROTS is kinda cool in that it finally shows a bit of internal struggle inside Anakin. A bit of "I cut off his head and I know I shoudn't" or " I constantly want more and I know I shoudn't" . Anakin is slipping slowly towards DS.. he feels this and he tries to fight it.. and all he seems to need is a bit of help / afection from his friends. What does he get instead:

- Yoda tells him to let go of all the people he cares about (this one is really dumb)
- They refuse to give him the title of Master (granted, he wasn't ready.. but it's not a good way to keep a friend)
- They ask him to spy on Palpatine.No, scrap that they DEMAND of him to spy.
- Mace Windu refuses to take him to confront Palpatine. The guy just told on his friend to help the Jedi .... the most you can do is show him respect and bring him with you when he asks.
- Mace attempts to kill Palpatine. What a fk. Jedi he is.
- Not once in the entire PT is he treated with respect or friendship from the Jedi. Just lectures and distrust.

I understand there are arguments fot all this... but it doesn't take a Jedi to see the guy is going through some internal struggle. Shouldn't they (you know.. the Jedi order) have helped him instead of treating him with distrust.

By the time he cuts off Mace Windu's arm I was already on the Dark Side for a long time: F*** the Jedi ! They are narrowminded pricks.

[Twig Bear]

The Jedi didn't have any choice... the Lucas-chlorians in their blood made them do it.

[Mnesymone]

The Jedi are thoroughly unimpressive in PT... why didn't Yoda say "we must destroy the sith" earlier than the last minute and hit Dooku and Maul with fifteen of the sods and do some damage.

[Failureboy2]

Yeah, it's like, we sympathize with Anakin turning because every single Jedi is unlikeable. Even Yoda (when he's not doing a parody of himself) is cold and unlikeable.

It's like Lucas made an accidental stroke of storytelling genius. Or not really.

[Michel Orla]

Yeah Yoda's little "No emotional attachment, be happy for those who passed on" speech is pretty cold. Then again he also didn't sympathize with Luke when he felt his friends in pain either. As wise as the OT Yoda was (and sometimes wise in the PT), he certainly could be a cold hearted bastard

[ernesttomlinson]

A thought: Lucas's conception of Anakin is entirely in the mold of a spoiled teenager's whining that nobody appreciates him. Every Jedi is a jerk because that's how disaffected teenagers view everyone older than they - they're all old, hidebound, unappreciative, restrictive, so forth. If Anakin weren't a Jedi apprentice he'd probably have simply started listening to death metal, gotten about two dozen piercings, and affecting black clothes and makeup. Of course the Jedi are lame - every adolescent knows that their parents are the lamest people on earth and the Jedi are in loco parentis.

Is Lucas, through Anakin, complaining about his dad not letting him borrow the car? Or is it a calculated attempt to appeal to the teenage market (cf. Mercedes Lackey's many stories about unappreciated teenagers and dour adults holding them back.) Either way it's sloppy, lazy writing. Lucas seizes onto the most facile, overused, and cliched of fictional explanations for Anakin's turning to evil - puberty. Way to go Lucas!

[Mnesymone]

*shudder*

[batalheiro]

Yoda has a wider view of life and the Force. He knows it´s not over when someone dies, all living things are part of the same "energy" (the Force)

Anakin was to confused to face Palpatine and that´s why Mace didn´t want him present in that ocasion ´cause he could mess up the whole operation (and eventually did)

The Jedi way is not an easy way. It requires sacrifice, solitude and discipline. Anakin is to self centered, scared and confused to understand this and that´s why he feels the Jedi are not giving him the support he feels he deserves...

[Radu094]

The Jedi way is not an easy way. It requires sacrifice, solitude and discipline. Anakin is to self centered, scared and confused to understand this and that´s why he feels the Jedi are not giving him the support he feels he deserves...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hence my point: the Jedi ARE NOT giving him any support.. they are more or less actively pushing him towards the dark side. It's not just what Anakin feels.. it's what is happening.

The Jedi sound like those people that feel a good (constant) beating and renegation of their kid will "help him grow a man" .. then wonder why their offspring has becomed a rapist.

[batalheiro]

Hence my point: the Jedi ARE NOT giving him any support.. they are more or less actively pushing him towards the dark side. It's not just what Anakin feels.. it's what is happening.

^ that is a good point.

But to say the Jedi are like an abusive parent is pushing to far IMO. I think the mistake was done in Episode I when Qui Gon Jin iniciated Anakin´s training, the council was right then when they wouldn´t allow his trainning because he was to old and scared...

I still maintain my opinion, tough, that the Jedi way and view on life and The Force is the correct way. it´s not an easy way and that´s way the dark side is so seductive...

[Michel Orla]

While I agree the Jedi way is much harder, they show a startling lack of campassion towards Anakin, which is NOT suppose to be a Jedi trait. It's almost like they spite him for being "too old" It's only natural to train him, considering his midichlorian count (bah, kill me now for saying that), and having someone with that much force potential running around the galaxy untrained could come back to bite them.

So despite his age that's why I think they did it. But they should've known they'd have to handle him a bit diffrent than others. If explored right it could've been a great character flaw for Yoda, too wrapped up in the dogma of the Jedi to realize the handled Anakin wrong. Thus Yoda learned his lesson, and vows to train the son of Skywalker better than he and Obi Wan did Anakin. At least Obi Wan admitted he failed at it

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 27 May 2005 - 10:43 AM

[Dunedain]

The Jedi needed to be wiped out. They were becoming something that the force didn't like. Qui-Gon Jinn was the last of the "real" Jedi- which is why he was not on the council, and why he kept going against the council. It's why he was able to retain his consciousness after death, when no other Jedi could.

Yes, that is the point of the films. The Jedi had become "pharisees".

[barend]

i agree...

they were asholes...

anikan: "holy shit mace... my buddy palpatine is a sith lord!!!
mace: "holy shit!!! i'll deal with this, you stay here and stay the fuck out of it!!!
anikan: "but shouldn't i-"
mace: "i said STFU bitch!!!"

pretty much...

a kind word here and there would have been nice.

they didn't reward him when he was good, and they didn't correct him when he was bad...

aniakn: "i wanna be a master, how dare you invite me here and not consider me equal to you."
mace: "yeah, er.. okay... sit down please..."

how about: you wanna be a jedi? sit the fuck down and do as your told!!!
i'll tell you when your a master, until then, another outburst and your totally out!!!

it was like watching really bad parenting...

schmoos death had nothing to do with it..

it was mace. he was a cold mutha fucker...

[floppydisk]

      - Mace attempts to kill Palpatine. What a fk. Jedi he is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good reasons. I made a whole thread for that one.

[Dartholomew]

I know The Republic is about to fall and all because Jedi aren't so powerfull anymore,etc... but I wonder : why do Jedi needed to be such dumbases?

  In the end, if you look carefull, it wasn't Sidious that brought Anakin to the Dark Side ™. It was the fucking Jedi that pushed him over the edge.

  ROTS is kinda cool in that it finally shows a bit of internal struggle inside Anakin. A bit of "I cut off his head and I know I shoudn't" or " I constantly want more and I know I shoudn't" . Anakin is slipping slowly towards DS.. he feels this and he tries to fight it.. and all he seems to need is a bit of help / afection from his friends. What does he get instead:

    - Yoda tells him to let go of all the people he cares about (this one is really dumb)
      - They refuse to give him the title of Master (granted, he wasn't ready.. but it's not a good way to keep a friend)
      - They ask him to spy on Palpatine.No, scrap that they DEMAND of him to spy.
      - Mace Windu refuses to take him to confront Palpatine. The guy just told on his friend to help the Jedi .... the most you can do is show him respect and bring him with you when he asks.
      - Mace attempts to kill Palpatine. What a fk. Jedi he is.
      - Not once in the entire PT is he treated with respect or friendship from the Jedi. Just lectures and distrust.

I understand there are arguments fot all this... but it doesn't take a Jedi to see the guy is going through some internal struggle. Shouldn't they (you know.. the Jedi order) have helped him instead of treating him with distrust.

  By the time he cuts off Mace Windu's arm I was already on the Dark Side for a long time: F*** the Jedi ! They are narrowminded pricks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea why Lucas has forgotten what he originally portrayed the Jedi to be.