[Obi-Ken Barbi]

I've been playing Star Wars as a role-playing game for about five years now and I couldn't help but think about a few things while watching Episode III last night. Some points I invite you to comment on:

Jedi Pilots - Do all Jedi have to be uber pilots? I see Kenobi wasn't as good as Aniken but he was still pretty darn good. The Jedi have a temple but I've never seen a single Jedi in flight school. My jedi character has a hard time keeping all his force skills up to par, let alone learning how to pilot a ship. Do all the Jedi fly ships?

Jedi Computer Experts - Once again the Jedi go into the Temple Database and alter the computers or change the settings. Does the Jedi temple use your "force user level" instead of "computer use" skill. My 14th level jedi character can barely turn a computer on let alone reset the temple transmitter in such a way that the badguys "would take a long time to discover".

Palpatine/Sidious - I remember being about half way throught the movie and thinking "Cool, Sidious doesn't pick up a saber. The creators of this movie really showed some restraint. He can't the master of manipulation, plotting, and dark side energy manipulation AND kickass with a light saber." Obviously, I jumped the gun with this conclusion as he later picks a up a saber and strikes down three jedi like blades of grass. Were those level 3 jedi with Mace Windu that they just fall over? Why does Windu just stand there and let them get slain? Is he surprised that the Sith Lord is not just going to go peacefully?

Dark Side Points - Would Yoda get a dark side point for force pushing Sidioius? (Maybe they split that skill so it is ok.) I think Obi-wan would get a dark side point for leaving Aniken to die (probably his only one). How many dozens of dark side points does Aniken get for killing all those children?

R2D2 - Okay, R2 goes up in levels and adds electro-shocker and oil jetter to his rocket jets. This sequence of abilities might make sense from episodes I - III, but why does he lose so much capability for episodes IV - VI?

Jumping/Flying - It seems like all Jedi can jump around flip etc. ad nauseum. I don't think the rules really reflect this. The force speed rules are ok (no force speed in ROS). I think they need a feat called "Jedi Acrobatics" where you can spend a vitality point to do stuff that is extra cool and would normally require a saving throw. I know there is "force jump" feat or skill, but it seems like breaking all those activities into separate feats is really nerfing the way the jedi's act in the movies.

Just a few things. I'm sure I'll come up with more.

[Lord Melkor]

Does it trouble you?

Games and movies are a diffrent medium.

[floppydisk]

Dude, get rid of that sig, or make is smaller. It's totally distorting the page.

I've been playing Star Wars as a role-playing game for about five years now and I couldn't help but think about a few things while watching Episode III last night. Some points I invite you to comment on:

Jedi Pilots - Do all Jedi have to be uber pilots? I see Kenobi wasn't as good as Aniken but he was still pretty darn good. The Jedi have a temple but I've never seen a single Jedi in flight school. My jedi character has a hard time keeping all his force skills up to par, let alone learning how to pilot a ship. Do all the Jedi fly ships?
Luke was an excellent pilot, and a Jedi Master.

Jedi Computer Experts - Once again the Jedi go into the Temple Database and alter the computers or change the settings. Does the Jedi temple use your "force user level" instead of "computer use" skill. My 14th level jedi character can barely turn a computer on let alone reset the temple transmitter in such a way that the badguys "would take a long time to discover".
Please, computers are a basic skill that most everyone has. Your game is restricted to prevent an excellent well rounded character, which promotes teamwork between multiple characters.

Palpatine/Sidious - I remember being about half way throught the movie and thinking "Cool, Sidious doesn't pick up a saber. The creators of this movie really showed some restraint. He can't the master of manipulation, plotting, and dark side energy manipulation AND kickass with a light saber." Obviously, I jumped the gun with this conclusion as he later picks a up a saber and strikes down three jedi like blades of grass. Were those level 3 jedi with Mace Windu that they just fall over? Why does Windu just stand there and let them get slain? Is he surprised that the Sith Lord is not just going to go peacefully?
I completely agree, Palpatine never should've touched a saber.

Dark Side Points - Would Yoda get a dark side point for force pushing Sidioius? (Maybe they split that skill so it is ok.) I think Obi-wan would get a dark side point for leaving Aniken to die (probably his only one). How many dozens of dark side points does Aniken get for killing all those children?
You can go here for my thoughts on force powers. As far as the points, that's only in the game

R2D2 - Okay, R2 goes up in levels and adds electro-shocker and oil jetter to his rocket jets. This sequence of abilities might make sense from episodes I - III, but why does he lose so much capability for episodes IV - VI?
This has been debated many a time, but our general answer is that GL is a stupid wanker who loves special effects, and doesn't care much about plot, at least after ESB.

Jumping/Flying - It seems like all Jedi can jump around flip etc. ad nauseum. I don't think the rules really reflect this. The force speed rules are ok (no force speed in ROS). I think they need a feat called "Jedi Acrobatics" where you can spend a vitality point to do stuff that is extra cool and would normally require a saving throw. I know there is "force jump" feat or skill, but it seems like breaking all those activities into separate feats is really nerfing the way the jedi's act in the movies.
Jedi can't fly, but you're right about the acrobatics. They're stupid. Luke had trouble jumping out of the pit in ESB. They shouldn't be able to do stuff like in ANH.

Just a few things. I'm sure I'll come up with more.
I'm sure I'll be there to argue. 

This post has been edited by floppydisk: 24 May 2005 - 01:43 PM

[jariten]

yes, get rid of that sig! or make it smaller or something.

[Obi-Ken Barbi]

Thanks for your comments.

I fixed the sig (newbie, sorry).

[Chefelf]

I dunno, I think it's more difficult to draw the line at where a Jedi's powers end in the PT. We understand and accept that Jedi can't fly but the more we see from the acrobatics and crazy physical performances in the PT it becomes unclear exactly why they can't.

"Ironic isn't it. The Jedi can make other things fly... but not themselves!"

[CowboyCurtis]

I was hoping for at least some levitation in the PT's, maybe not out-and-out flying, but oh well.

I think the best explanation for Force Powers and the Force are found in the West End Games, altho, I think giving Jedi a Dark Side point for Force pushing is ridiculous.

[barend]

if jedi can't fly but the can hurl heavy objects through the air, and the usually travel in pairs... surely some kind of co-dependant force-hurl induced flight could be acheived...

[/nerdthought]

anyway... the emporer didn't need to have a lightsabre... but YODA REALLY DIDN'T need too...

for a guy whjo didn't like han shooting first... the jedi seem pretty quick to resort to violence...

[Michel Orla]

Yep, Yoda and Palps didn't need to come anywhere near lightsabre/lightsabre fights. At least their fight together was well done.

And Luke had to learn to duel with someone. Obi Wan had only the trip in the Mellieum Falcon to teach him lightsabre basics. So its only natural to think in some deleted scenes from ESB Yoda sparred with Luke

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 25 May 2005 - 11:44 PM

[Mnesymone]

Nah... Yoda trained Luke against seeker remotes but the scene was either cut or not filmed - that was the original Yoda explaining the dark side scene.
However - I understand completely why Jedi don't fly - the force is a lever but to use a lever you need a place to stand. Though two Jedi should be able to cooperatively hop-fly.
The RPG game perspective is interesting, but not really important. Still some of the people who played KOTOR or the old Jedi Knight games must have ocassionally thought something like "I pulled a move like that once, back in Canyon Oasis" or "Why doesn't Dooku use Force Destruction" somewhere in the back of their mind.

[floppydisk]

Yep, Yoda and Palps didn't need to come anywhere near lightsabre/lightsabre fights. At least their fight together was well done.
Hmm.. .I thought that they're fight was pretty bad. It's the exact same thing as when he fought Dookou, just that you guys haven't had time to think about it. Yoda hopping around like a squirrell on crack doesn't make a good fight scene. It got better when they started throwing stuff, but I think that that fight should never have taken place. Then Yoda runs like a pussy. 


And Luke had to learn to duel with someone. Obi Wan had only the trip in the Mellieum Falcon to teach him lightsabre basics. So its only natural to think in some deleted scenes from ESB Yoda sparred with Luke
That would make sense. If only for training. Mabye he had Luke make two sabers or something. But it would definitely look like the fight from ANH, where they're using the force to detect each other's thoughts, and waiting for the other to make a mistake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Michel Orla]

Nah... Yoda trained Luke against seeker remotes but the scene was either cut or not filmed - that was the original Yoda explaining the dark side scene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right, thats in the novel too. Im sure they had that scene and cut it out. Oh well, it might be in the superduper special editions, which is too bad because I wont watch it.

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 26 May 2005 - 12:36 PM

[Michel Orla]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I meant well done as in better than his fight with Dooku...at least he didn't make stupid noises or had a kung fu pose this time around. The way he took out those Imperial Guards...thats really the only kind of fighting I like to see Yoda do

I'd hope with Ben and Yoda at least sparred with him a bit. Nothing could prepare him for combat like sabre fighting with other Jedi's IMO (and it does ease the stupidity of seeing Yoda use a lightsabre. At least we know it comes in handy when he trains Luke)

[floppydisk]

Sorry, I meant well done as in better than his fight with Dooku...at least he didn't make stupid noises or had a kung fu pose this time around. The way he took out those Imperial Guards...thats really the only kind of fighting I like to see Yoda do
Well, he did actually do a kung fu pose. He extended one hand, pulled the other back, then did the matrix 'come-on' thing.

Well, Yoda would never have been a Jedi without a saber, but I still think we never should have seen him fight in actual battles. He's cooler like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Michel Orla]

I've seen it three times and never noticed Perhaps I've learned to subconciously block it out right after I've seen it