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Pass the Tums... A few reasons to hate ROTS

#1 User is offline   Reindeer Icon

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Post icon  Posted 24 May 2005 - 03:40 AM

Hello everyone... I had the mis-fortune of watching the latest WWF ...errr... Star Wars installment over the weekend, and was wondering if anyone else found the film as annoying as I did. Much like the owner of this forum, I was a huge fan of the original Star Wars films when I was young, and I felt a certain obligation to follow through and watch the prequils.

So with that said, here is a list of a few of the things that I hate about Episode III.

First, the general stuff:

1. Cartoon physics: OK, I realize that physics aren't a strong point in many Hollywood films, especially of the fantasy variety. I can accept that. However ROTS resembled a Bugs Bunny cartoon more than a typical Hollywood space adventure. There were so many instances, I don't even know where to begin... the buzz droid getting "blown off" Anakin's fighter? General Grievous' starship going into a power dive when it loses power? Characters that can fall or get thrown hundreds of feet w/o getting a scratch? Doesn't George Lucas realize that "suspension of disbelief" is critical in making a fantasy film work? Or is Lucas purposely trying to insult my intelligence?

2. Dialogue: I'm convinced that George Lucas must be a closet "professional" wrestling junkie. Most of the film seemed to be little more than "shit talk" between the characters before they whip out their lightsabres, and start hacking at each other. Who the hell wrote the final script anyway? Vince McMahon? On a related note...

3. Gratuitous yet emasculated violence: Make no mistake... the premise of this film is a violent one. People and machines are getting hacked to bits all over the place, yet somehow (yes, another "pro" wrestling comparison) Lucas manages to pull it off as convincingly as a WWF match... which means he doesn't. Dismemberment is a pretty horrible thing to have happen, and I would imagine to be quite painful. Yet Count Dooku gets his arms cut off, and he acts like "Oh darn... just don't cut off my head. That might actually hurt".

4. Scenes that don't make sense: Examples... when exactly did Yoda talk to Qui Gon and learn about the secret to immortality? Also, I suppose that it is worth pointing out that there is another inconsistancy with ROTJ in that Anakin/Vader would not have had the ability to learn this secret, yet he returns as a Force ghost.

5. The usual stuff: Poor acting, too much camp, too much computer animated glitz, too much hype. For all the money that Lucas must have, couldn't he have afforded to get some decent actors?

Specifics:

1. Cover your speaker when you cough. Would someone please explain what was behind General Grievous' coughing and wheezing? What exactly was Lucas trying to accomplish?

2. Kill me. Kill me now: I'm sorry (not really), but Hayden Christensen positively stinks as an actor. He managed to deliver about the most unconvincing performance I have ever seen. For example, he showed about as much remorse when he killed Count Dooku as I might have had when I shot plastic army men as a child with a BB gun. Same thing for when he finally turned into Vader.

3. Anakin Muad 'Dib: Somehow I couldn't help but think of Paul Atreidies from the Dune series when he had those dream sequences. Couple that with the virgin birth from TPM, the reference to being the "chosen one" and his bringing balance to the Force, the attempt of the Jedi Order and others to control him, etc, and it leaves me with this question... Is Anakin the Kwitzach Haderach?

4. Hair doos and hair don'ts: I wonder if anyone else thinks that Lucas was trying to hit home the fact that Padme was Princess Leia's mother with that double bun hairdoo Padme was sporting outside the senate? Does he really think that we wouldn't have been able to figure it out otherwise? Or maybe Lucas is trying to imply that hair styles are genetic...

5. Cheese and whine: The scene where Anakin is appointed a seat on the Jedi cousel was one of the more painful in the film. Let's say that you as the reader are on the board of directors in a large and important organization. Would YOU want someone who whined like that on your team?

On the flip side, one has to wonder what the Jedi were thinking when they asked Anakin to spy on the Chancelor. Didn't they realize that they were setting up an obvious conflict of interest with Anakin, forcing him to choose sides? Hmmm... should Anakin choose the Jedi, who for the most part have treated him pretty shoddily in the films ("Anakin won't be trained", "the boy is dangerous", and "we don't grant you the rank of master"), or should he choose Palpatine, who has actively shown an interest in Anakin's well-being?

6. Detoo... Artoo Detoo: Now R2 can fly, squirt oil, zap enemy droids, pop out of a fighter socket like a champaign cork, and catch flying objects in mid air. I wonder if they could reprogram R2-D2's beeps with a English accent, just like a certain British secret agent of book and movie fame.

7. Get out of the way you moron: I wonder it ever occured to the droids/creatures/whatever to get out of the way when they see an elevator/Big Wheel from hell/whatever coming straight at them, else face imminant destruction? I guess not...

8. Today is a wonderful day for an exorcism: I guess it should come as no surprise that after that after Palpatine transformed, that he was making noises and otherwise carrying on like the character Linda Blair portrayed in the movie "The Exorcist". After all, how many other memes has Lucas borrowed from other films throughout this series?

9. Leapin' Lizards: I'm sorry, but the scene where Obi Wan was chasing the Big Wheel from hell on lizardback was outright stupid.

10. General Order 66: OK, would somebody explain to me exactly how Palpatine can issue this order to one soldier at the time, yet have the entire army suddenly turncoat at once? For that matter, who, what, when, and were were these soldiers trained to follow this "General Order 66" in the first place? How come nobody knew about it until that point? Also, how come the Jedi who can deflect laser bolts blindfolded were totally oblivious to their own troops turning on them?

11. Fire department on strike: Interesting how the Coruscant fire department was on the spot to put out the fire on General Grievous' ship when it was crashing on to the surface of the planet, but made no effort to put out the fire at the Jedi temple.

12. Emperor who?: Again, maybe I'm missing something, but how did Yoda learn that Palpatine had declared himself the Emperor, especially since he and Obi Wan were sifting through the ruins of the Jedi Temple when Palpatine made the announcement?

That's enough for now.

This post has been edited by Reindeer: 24 May 2005 - 03:45 AM

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#2 User is offline   SPQR Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 03:53 AM

General Grievous has been the most hyped and overblown SW character in recent memory. GL has had double bladed sabers, 2 sabers, and now he brings out a dual with 4, and it was horrible.
That iguanadon beast was completely idiotic. It chirps like mad except when spying inside the hangar, also the scenes with Obi on it looked bad, really bad and really fake.
Palpatine's facial contortions when battling windu were reminiscent of villains from silent movies. Horribly done to the point of comic.
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#3 User is offline   Coco Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:13 AM

QUOTE (Reindeer @ May 24 2005, 05:40 AM)
1. Cover your speaker when you cough. Would someone please explain what was behind General Grievous' coughing and wheezing? What exactly was Lucas trying to accomplish?


He was coughing because Mace Windu crushed his chest with a Force Grip at the end of the Clone Wars animated series. Then again, I shouldn' need Clone Wars or any other EU product to watch and understand the movies.

QUOTE (Reindeer @ May 24 2005, 05:40 AM)
10. General Order 66: OK, would somebody explain to me exactly how Palpatine can issue this order to one soldier at the time, yet have the entire army suddenly turncoat at once? For that matter, who, what, when, and were were these soldiers trained to follow this "General Order 66" in the first place? How come nobody knew about it until that point? Also, how come the Jedi who can deflect laser bolts blindfolded were totally oblivious to their own troops turning on them?


I like to think that the whole Order 66 thing was part of the cloning process, that it was pre-programmed into the clones's mind. Then again, I would like to think that SOMEONE in Kamino had to find this programming odd... I mean, your client orders you to prepare your clones to kill the Jedi, guardians of the Republic, and you wouldn't at least question it? Even more when the clones were, as far as the cloners knew, ordered by Sifo Dias, a Jedi.

QUOTE (Reindeer @ May 24 2005, 05:40 AM)
12. Emperor who?: Again, maybe I'm missing something, but how did Yoda learn that Palpatine had declared himself the Emperor, especially since he and Obi Wan were sifting through the ruins of the Jedi Temple when Palpatine made the announcement?


I was watching it again yesterday, and this also struck me as odd. Everyone was calling Palpatine the Emperor at the same time he was making the announcement in the Senate about the creation of the Empire. If you listen to the conversation between Anakin and Palpatine in the security recording, it's not the same they have at the Chancellor's quarters, when Anakin turns to the Dark Side. In this one, Palpatine tells Anakin to "go and create his Empire" or something similar. Just like that, everyone starts calling Palpatine the Emperor? I think it's pretty early to do it...
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#4 User is offline   Richard Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Reindeer @ May 24 2005, 08:40 AM)
3. Gratuitous yet emasculated violence: Make no mistake... the premise of this film is a violent one. People and machines are getting hacked to bits all over the place, yet somehow (yes, another "pro" wrestling comparison) Lucas manages to pull it off as convincingly as a WWF match... which means he doesn't. Dismemberment is a pretty horrible thing to have happen, and I would imagine to be quite painful. Yet Count Dooku gets his arms cut off, and he acts like "Oh darn... just don't cut off my head. That might actually hurt".



I think most of the violence wasn't really 'gratuitous' as such. I dunno really how to define that word anyway, but the fighting was mainly there as part of the story, and all in all, I don'teven think there was much violence on screen. Light-sabre fights are actually pretty non-violent until the end. Other stuff was VS robots, and nobody cares about them. Then there are some clones, but I don't remember seeing too much harshness. And yea kids get killed, but you don't see it.

I thoroughly agree with Dooku's hand-removal. He should have been screaming and stuff. But when Anakin gets his arm and legs cut off, that is awesome and he does a great job of screaming and everything.

I agree with all your other points thumbsup.gif
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#5 User is offline   Daryl_Elite Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:36 AM

"Scenes that don't make sense: Examples... when exactly did Yoda talk to Qui Gon and learn about the secret to immortality? Also, I suppose that it is worth pointing out that there is another inconsistancy with ROTJ in that Anakin/Vader would not have had the ability to learn this secret, yet he returns as a Force ghost."

There was another scene filmed in which Yoda talked to Qui Gon and becomes his apprentice... but unfortunately it was left out of the final movie.

I like to think that Anakin/Vader was SO powerful in the force (his midiclorian count is higher than Yoda's, apparantly) that he could actually figure out how to become one with the force on his own. It just shows how powerful and strong in the force he is/was.
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#6 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (Coco @ May 24 2005, 10:13 AM)
He was coughing because Mace Windu crushed his chest with a Force Grip at the end of the Clone Wars animated series. Then again, I shouldn' need Clone Wars or any other EU product to watch and understand the movies.
I like to think that the whole Order 66 thing was part of the cloning process,  that it was pre-programmed into the clones's mind. Then again, I would like to think that SOMEONE in Kamino had to find this programming odd... I mean, your client orders you to prepare your clones to kill the Jedi, guardians of the Republic, and you wouldn't at least question it? Even more when the clones were, as far as the cloners knew, ordered by Sifo Dias, a Jedi.


Not that it's easy to make sense of Lucas logic, but the Jedi were not aware of Sifo Dias ordering the army. So its clear Palpatine and his henchmen were behind the creation of the clone army, and if Sidious planned on having the clones join him when he took over Im sure he'd have them programed to take care of the Jedi.

And it always seemed to me the cloners in Kamino worked for whoever paid them....Obi Wans four armed friend basically told him that. So why do they care what the clones do

QUOTE (Reindeer @ May 24 2005, 03:40 AM)
Kill me. Kill me now: I'm sorry (not really), but Hayden Christensen positively stinks as an actor. He managed to deliver about the most unconvincing performance I have ever seen. For example, he showed about as much remorse when he killed Count Dooku as I might have had when I shot plastic army men as a child with a BB gun. Same thing for when he finally turned into Vader.



His performance in this one is at least passable. Leaps and bounds better than the wooden and uninspired acting of AOTC. Even Portman and Jackson are better

This post has been edited by Michel Orla: 24 May 2005 - 12:10 PM

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