[Despondent]

I'd like to see a Toulouse Lautrec star wars poster.

[Vwing]

Oh wow didn't even realize there was a 1952 Moulin Rouge, that's why I assumed you meant the original Pennies from Heaven. Anyway, even if history bears you out, I'll still think MR is brilliant. Also, I just watched it agian upon your argument, and there really is not that much cutting in the big musical numbers. Your Song has very little cutting, Elephant Love Medley has very little cutting, Come What May has little cutting, Show must Go On has little cutting, and the final number doesn't have much cutting (except for the part with the gun). The only one that has a lot of cutting is El Tango de Roxanne, but that only gets frantic at the end, when they have the Duke, Christian, and the Puerto Rican guy all singing. Oh, and the Spectacular, Spectacular number, though I don't consider that one of the BIG musical numbers. So as far as the musical talent is concerned, you can very much see their talent, because those parts were not cut nearly as frantically as the rest of the movie. And the cutting of the rest of the movie, yes its frantic at many many points, but it really is lively and exciting, and draws you into the picture. And as for history proving you right, again, I'll still love it, but I do not think it will prove you right on this one. At many points, yes, MR is a mess. But it's the most brilliant, beautiful mess of all-time.

Anyway this is a SW board, so enough about musicals. Unless they made Episode III a musical. Hmmm *imagines, rolls on floor laughing hysterically* Of course, with Georgie its not out of the realm of possibility. Hell with McGregor's voice it would probably be better than the other 2 just because of that lol.

[civilian_number_two]

Wow. There have been an uncomfortable number of Star Wars cast members involved with various incarnations of Moulin Rouge.

I only count Peter Cushing.

[Chefelf]

Wow.  There have been an uncomfortable number of Star Wars cast members involved with various incarnations of Moulin Rouge.

I only count Peter Cushing.

Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor.

[civilian_number_two]

Wow.  There have been an uncomfortable number of Star Wars cast members involved with various incarnations of Moulin Rouge.

I only count Peter Cushing.

Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee and Ewan McGregor.

Like I said.

[Chefelf]

The characters and the story are the most important thing. The characters in the prequels are lifeless and the story (what little of it there is) is flat.

As George Lucas once said: "A special effect is just a tool, a means of telling a story. A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing." I wish he remembered that philosophy.

[Vwing]

No no no George Lucas didn't say that. The genius who made the original trilogy and came up with the idea for Indiana Jones and wrote and directed American Grafitti said that. Not George Lucas.

[Chefelf]

My mistake. Please accept my humble apologies.

[civilian_number_two]

In response to Heccubus's comments on "wowing" the audience...big DEAL. You dont need to wow someone with cool scenes to sell a movie or story. The story itself is what people want. Look at Blair Witch Project.

Well, I defintely agree with you, Patman, but you sure used the worst possible example. THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT made big money without any special effects, sure, but nobody went to it because of its characters or its story. they went ot it because it had a neat gimmick (all POV shots, premise that it was "found" footage), and a really strong ad campaign. Nobody cared about the story, which was transparent, and nobody much remembers the dialogue or the characters. Gee, what were their names, even?

...the real reason (and nobody and deny this) the phantom menace and attack of the clones sucks is that the original characters arent in them (human that is.)

And this I just won't accept. I am sure the reason peple don't like the prequels is that the original characters ARE in them, especially Anikin. I think a great series of films concerned with entirerly different characters could have been a smash. The weakness of the prequels, so far, has been that they are weak attempts at filling out the thin backstory of STAR WARS. Every event in the prequels has always been leadin up to the death of the Jedi and the birth of Luke and Leia. Since we already know all about those things, I think it would have been strong to have made a trilogy about something else. Maybe it could have ended with a cataclysm that woould signal the end of the Jedi order (which frankly I am now glad to see go), but making that event, and making the life of Anikin the focus of the series was about the dumbest thing Lucas could ever have done.

HOWEVER: A *good* series of films whose hero was Obi-Wan (no Anikin anywhere), and wherein he met Chewbacca and at some point maybe the droids (or at least R2), might have been cool as well.

[Chefelf]

I strongly believe that the only characters from the original trilogy that have ANY business in the prequels are as follows:

Main Charagers
Anakin
Obi-Wan
Yoda
Palpatine

That's it. The more characters that are cheesily thrown into the prequels, the lamer and lamer it gets. I will also accept cameo appearances from one or more of the following.

Cameo Appearances all optional
Baby Luke
Baby Leia
Owen
Beru

And those cameos are only for late in Episode III, nothing sooner. Having Chewbacca, Han, Lando, Bobba Fett, R2, Threepio, Jabba, Greedo, etc. is just plain stupid. Any character that could have conceivably been alive during the prequels are just clumsily thrown into the stories whether it makes sense or not.

The original trilogy told one story, these prequels should be telling another. Only the core characters of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Palpatine actually make sense in this story line.

Don't even get me started on the Death Star thing.

[Jordan]

What about this character, from episode II. Her name is fantastic, who were the creative wizards who came up with this one!


http://www.starwars....rrie/index.html

If she makes a cameo....... Ha!, we could only be so lucky

[Paladin]

And those cameos are only for late in Episode III, nothing sooner. Having Chewbacca, Han, Lando, Bobba Fett, R2, Threepio, Jabba, Greedo, etc. is just plain stupid. Any character that could have conceivably been alive during the prequels are just clumsily thrown into the stories whether it makes sense or not.

In my own opionon, Owen and Beru did need some explanation. If Obi-Wan was going to leave Luke with them for safekeeping, he would have had to trust them a lot.

But on the other hand, there are already lots of time 'in between' the movies that could be used as an excuse to say that Obi-Wan already had a relationship with Owen.

[civilian_number_two]

I strongly believe that the only characters from the original trilogy that have ANY business in the prequels are as follows:

Main Characters
Anakin
Obi-Wan
Yoda
Palpatine

That's it. The more characters that are cheesily thrown into the prequels, the lamer and lamer it gets. I will also accept cameo appearances from one or more of the following.

Cameo Appearances all optional
Baby Luke
Baby Leia
Owen
Beru

And those cameos are only for late in Episode III, nothing sooner. Having Chewbacca, Han, Lando, Bobba Fett, R2, Threepio, Jabba, Greedo, etc. is just plain stupid. Any character that could have conceivably been alive during the prequels are just clumsily thrown into the stories whether it makes sense or not.

The original trilogy told one story, these prequels should be telling another. Only the core characters of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Palpatine actually make sense in this story line.

Don't even get me started on the Death Star thing.

Gosh Nate, I couldn't disagree more, which surprises me. I think that R2 and 3P0, properly handled, belonged in the series for sure. Maybe that's because back in the day when Lucas lied about having nine stories all written and ready to go, he said that the only characters in all nine of them were the droids. So I figured they were the through-line.

I would have liked to have seen Obi-Wan introduced in Episode Two, and maybe Anikin could have been the Episode Three plot. I would like to have never seen any evidence of children, and I'd have liked to have had Episode Six rewritten so that when Luke asks Ben why he never told him the truth about his father it could have been "Well shit; I didn't know how to tell you." Or better, Ben wouldn't have appeared in Episode Six at all (watching his apparition sit down is pretty damn laughable) , and Yoda would have had the job of explaining that Ben was not so good with the hard questions.

I'd like an Episode Three cameo of Chewbacca, since it would explain why Ben meets him first and decides to travel on board his ship even before he and Luke meet Han. Presumably Ben can't speak Wookiee, so there's got to be a reason he struck an early rapport with the creature. I think this would turn out to be the only genuinely clever side-character cameo of the entire series, provided they didn't make a huge thing of it, like having Ben save Chewbacca's life or free him from slavery or some dipshit thing like that.

I think in my perfect world cameos of Beru and Owen would also have been pretty stupid, as stupid as any appearance of child-aged versions of OT characters. Like you have said, however, the Calamari people would have been an excellent replacement for the Gungun, and like someone else has said, Naboo should certainly have been Alderaan. In fact, I think Lucas should go back to STAR WARS and loop in "Naboo" over every reference to Alderaan, or better, go back to Episodes I and II and loop in "Alderaan" over every reference to Naboo.

Anikin, in Episode Three, should have had a romance with Amidala, and it should have been totally open and obvious, but we should never have known about any pregnancy or anything like that. I'm sure in Lucas's version there will be a galaxy-wide murder of the innocent, but there sure wouldn't be in mine. I think blatant Judeo-Christian analogues are pretty embarrassing.

But the biggest place where I disagree with you: Yoda did not belong in the prequels. Nor any reference to him. I want to be surprised when I learn the little goblin in the swamp is the Jedi master. Putting Yoda in the prequels destroys the point of the whole buildup in EMPIRE; I want to pretend these stories were really made to be seen straight through, rather than out of order.

Of course, the main reason I differ on the Yoda thing is that I absolutely reject the storyline of the prequels. They should have been completely different, and I think everyone, including Lucas, knows that.

[Radu094]

I think that R2 and 3P0, properly handled, belonged in the series for sure.  Maybe that's because back in the day when Lucas lied about having nine stories all written and ready to go, he said that the only characters in all nine of them were the droids.

I also remember seeing some GL interview, about how he inspired the ideea from some japanese movie where the entire story (movie) is being told(shown) from the eyes of two slaves, who are only marginally (ie. not at all) connected to the show of events, as they have no influence over what the "main" caracter will do. They, as slaves, are only the storytellers. I thought ,oau..., the entire SW trilogy is actually told by the 2 robots. They are the witnesses of these great events. This was back in the days when GL still had brains.

I also subscribe that I would have liked the prequels to be about the 2 droids witnessing the collapse of this great republic, and somehow very-very-very marginally , they might even catch a small glimpse on how this is happening :ie. Obi-wan and Anakin fighting ,maybe(just maybe) even show Palpatine as he is rising into political power..

I'd like an Episode Three cameo of Chewbacca, since it would explain why Ben meets him first and decides to travel on board his ship even before he and Luke meet Han. 

Actually, what bothers me the most about the prequels is just this. It would seem that this galaxy a long, long time ago far away is made out of a max of 10 planets, some 20 dudes, 50 gungans, Greedo, Bobba Fet and 10 Jedi. I haven't bumped into any of my high school friends for years, and I live in a small town. These guys live in a whole galaxy, yet they keep bumping into each other!!!

But the biggest place where I disagree with you: Yoda did not belong in the prequels.

And speaking of Yoda, I have to wonder: when did this guy got promoted to being Jedi Council Chief and all? You'd think if Palpatine wanted to destroy the Jedi order, the first thing he'd make sure is Yoda is not gonna get away. You always need to kill the leader, folks. What was wrong with the ideea of having Yoda a weird looking small, old fellow, training Jedis on a remote and isolated swampy planet. No, he just had to be the Big Smart One rulling wizelly over the Jedi Order. Now guess what. Out of being the master of it all, Yoda has becomed the dumb-ass under who's rule Palpatine has no problem destroing the entire Republic and killing all the Jedis. Yoda is now a bigger fuck-up than JarJar Binks. What was GL thinking? (if any)