[StarWarsIsUs]

""I thought that they had Shmi kept alive because they were raping her repeatedly.""

I'm glad we agree on this.

[Richard]

Jariten- I wont discuss ROTS yet, saving that for my website, but it will be a revelation. However as for the sand people, play KOTOR, and remember that even mindless animals don't tie other animals to sticks for a month.

Other guys - Ermmm right... rape is something that dosnt occur in SW except by Midichlorians. If there were even a hint of that Anakins actions would have been totally justified if sand peoples culture condoned random rape, which all indications say it dosnt. The sand people are not sand people-like in ep2. But I know they're not month-long-rapists-of-death. That's insane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno if I am right or what, I might be entirely wrong. Why do you think they had her tied up? I haven't heard any other explanation really, what other benefit would she be to them?

This post has been edited by Richard: 23 May 2005 - 05:27 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

EXACTLY! What other benefit would they have with a human woman from the desert? They could have starved her, raped her, torchered her with other things besides just whips and blades. Understand: They would have no other reason to keep her there.

[ForceHippo]

Very interesting this rape theory is! I hadn't thought about that one. However, if we were to assume that the sand people not are completely mindless monsters, there are actually two fairly resonable explanations for holding Shmi captured. First, people involved in the hostage industry demand ransom for releasing their captives. Second, (and more plausible) slave labour - living out there in the desert you probably have some quite boring shores to perform - why not capture someone and let her do them? Furthermore, this rape theory assumes that there must be considerable sexual excitement across race-borders, which usually not are to be found in nature. Finally, yes, I am well aware of Jabba's perversions, but I don't think he is representative for the entire SW universe.

[Richard]

Yea I had thought about a hostage situation, but I don't remember them demanding anything from anyone? Yea the slave-labour thing could be true also. I am open to any possibility, except me being raped of course

This post has been edited by Richard: 23 May 2005 - 07:45 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

Their beasts. Animals... they are the embodiment of perversion and the carnal desires of nature itself. They have no conscious. Slave labor? I doubt it.

'Hey, woman from the desert, start building a casa!'

[SPQR]

He kills the sandpeople, but not the flying immigrant italian Watto, who keeps her as a slave?
pondering...
Therefore, he slaughters the sandpeople because they dehumanized and violated her.
She was raped and tortured, otherwise he would have sprang her from Watto's OTB parlor a long time ago.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""She was raped and tortured""

Glad we agree on this.

[Richard]

He kills the sandpeople, but not the flying immigrant italian Watto, who keeps her as a slave?
pondering...
Therefore,  he slaughters the sandpeople because they dehumanized and violated her.
She was raped and tortured, otherwise he would have sprang her from Watto's OTB parlor a long time ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah of course! She was already a slave, so something worse than slave-ness must have been happening to her for Anakin to give-a-shit.

AND I KILLED THEM LIKE ANIMALS

[StarWarsIsUs]

Richard... SPQR... looks as if we, together, have solved the mystery of why Shmi Skywalker died.

[ForceHippo]

Ah of course!  She was already a slave, so something worse than slave-ness must have been happening to her for Anakin to give-a-shit.

AND I KILLED THEM LIKE ANIMALS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still not willing to give in to the rape theory, so I will elaborate a little on the slave theory. Perhaps we can agree on that Watto was a slightly more sophisticated slaver than the sand people. If Shmi tried to run away from him he could simply blow her up. The sand people instead had the habit of beating her up at random, thus being held a slave by them certainly was no walk in the park. Had Watto beaten Shmi to death we would probably have seen his blue wings spread across the silver screen, but he did not pose this direct threat to her, which the sand people did.

[Veer]

Myabe they were keeping her for Ransom?

And if it was rape - I wonder what they would have done with Luke?

[Madam Corvax]

Here you are. The discussion above is a direct proof that Lucas had Shmi captured by sand people for no reson at all, or for his fans to speculate what they were doing with her. Would you argue why Vader was after Han Solo in ESB?Or after Leia in ANH? No, the reasons were obvious they were pivotal to the plot. Here, we don't know. Something happens, oh well, because it could

To have something happen for no reason at all is not good story telling.

The whole trick of having the tale told backward not forwardd is that in order to be coherent you need a lot of skill so the seams, patches and holes would not show. There were ways of doing it, but Lucas was simply not up to the task. And the result is mess.

[Richard]

I'm still not willing to give in to the rape theory, so I will elaborate a little on the slave theory. Perhaps we can agree on that Watto was a slightly more sophisticated slaver than the sand people. If Shmi tried to run away from him he could simply blow her up. The sand people instead had the habit of beating her up at random, thus being held a slave by them certainly was no walk in the park. Had Watto beaten Shmi to death we would probably have seen his blue wings spread across the silver screen, but he did not pose this direct threat to her, which the sand people did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea you may well be right. The only thing I'd argue with is that if it was just beatings, Lucas could / would / should have shown her being beaten to show what they were doing. But because he didn't show anything, I think it might have been something worse IE rape. Of course that is an extremely flimsy point of view, and I don't really defend it. I just think, if it was beatings, why not show them?

I agree with you Madam Corvax

[ForceHippo]

Here you are. The discussion above is a direct proof that Lucas had Shmi captured by sand people for no reson at all, or for his fans to speculate what they were doing with her. Would you argue why Vader was after Han Solo in ESB?Or after Leia in ANH? No, the reasons were obvious they were pivotal to the plot. Here, we don't know. Something happens, oh well, because it could

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not averse to a fair bit of Lucas bashing, but just because the PT does not live up to the OT standard does not mean that everything in the PT can be regarded as stupid. Lucas had Shmi captured by sand people for a very good reason. Anakin's little sand people genocide following the kidnapping constitutes his first significant step towards the dark side. The plot device to use sand people actually seems quite intelligent in my view, since they probably best can be described as part beast and part humanoid. Had the sand people really been truly viscous monsters without any form of social structure (they live in organised villages after all) it would have been much justifiable for Ani to go on a killing spree. Also note that Ani tries to rationalise his action afterwards by saying that they are mindless monsters, but this is certainly not the case since societal organisation implies at least some kind of intelligence.