[Madam Corvax]

1. There isnt any actual proff that he created Anakin, only the suggestion. ...I liked it that Lucas threw a spanner in the works for those of us who were actually following the story.

You know what? This is evem more confusing than I thought it was, then. It it was not meant as an explanation, then we are still left with the huge unanswered question of immaculate conception. And you LIKED it? You are being sarcastic, right?

Why Shmi was kidnapped isnt important.

I was honestly hoping for some explanation there. Why woudl they kidnap her? Why keep her alive? Why on earth Anaking did not check up on her earlier, then? I hope you can see that this situation is like pasted by random scenario generator.

4. Lucas needed a new sith for Sidious, a figurehead for the seperatists, a fallen jedi (to show it could be done), and yes, im sure he also needed a guy with a cool voice.

Yes, Dooku, was all that, but why on earth get rid of him so early in the film and introduce a lame character like Grievous, who also is expendable as hell.

Yes, yes, I know the official explanation to make place for someone younger and powerful, but again, this is just done for the sake of "coolness".
To intorduce and kill off your characers because you don't know what to do with them is the technique which is used by teenager schoolgirls for their love stories. I strongly recommend you read "Anne of Green Gables" the chapter where girls form "Writing club" and read description of their techniques. The story in ROTS bears strong resemblance to some of the ideas Diana Barry, Anne Shirley, Ruby Gillis and Jane Andrews come up with.

[jariten]

Yes, Sidious wanted Dooku out of the way so he could take on Anakin, it was a "necessary loss" as he put it. I think it makes Palpatine even more heartless and evil. Eventually, he'll try to do the same thing to Vader as he did to Dooku.

I like Palpatine messing with Anakins mind, and I like the idea that Lucas made Anakins birth ambigious. Is it the result of interfernance from a 'good' source (the 'living force' as Qui Gon saw it) or a bad one (the sith)? what is Anakins destiny? its left intentionally ambigious until RotJ, where he finally fulfills the prophecy and restores balance by killing the last sith (himself included).

Thats why I liked it.

I was honestly hoping for some explanation there. Why woudl they kidnap her? Why keep her alive? Why on earth Anaking did not check up on her earlier, then? I hope you can see that this situation is like pasted by random scenario generator.

They're "vicious, mindless monsters". Thats all thats needed to make it believable. What we see in ANH, and even the brief glimpse of them in TPM confirms it. Anakin went to her as soon as he was able to, after he couldnt stop dreaming about her.

[Madam Corvax]

I like Palpatine messing with Anakins mind, and I like the idea that Lucas made Anakins birth ambigious. Is it the result of interfernance from a 'good' source (the 'living force' as Qui Gon saw it) or a bad one (the sith)? what is Anakins destiny? its left intentionally ambigious until RotJ, where he finally fulfills the prophecy and restores balance by killing the last sith (himself included).

I am a bit baffled about your explanaiton as to Anakin's birth. Balance is restored by killing all Jedi, good and bad alike and leaving only one?

I think you are a bit deluded in thinking it is all deliberate on Lucas's part. I am almost positive, that if it had been "intentionally ambiguous" then a person of an average intelligence (and I hope I count as one) would have been able to discern such plot. Otherwise it is pretty pointles to devise such an elaborate construction solely for the benefit of a few fans who are willing to stretch their imaginaiton enought to accept it.

I perceive it just as lack of coherent plot.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""""I am a bit baffled about your explanaiton as to Anakin's birth. Balance is restored by killing all Jedi, good and bad alike and leaving only one?"""""

Yes. Anakin made it where there are two sith... two jedi. That is balance. Bringing balance to the force in an unexpected way.

[jariten]

I am a bit baffled about your explanaiton as to Anakin's birth. Balance is restored by killing all Jedi, good and bad alike and leaving only one?

No, balance is just through destroying the disruptive element (the sith), which is something Obi Wan brings up again at the end of ep3. I dont think killing all the Jedi had anything to do with the prophecy.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Killing off the Jedi helped bring balance to the force. It was a necessary step in evening the odds.

[The Scornful Roman]

Yes, Sidious wanted Dooku out of the way so he could take on Anakin, it was a "necessary loss" as he put it. I think it makes Palpatine even more heartless and evil. Eventually, he'll try to do the same thing to Vader as he did to Dooku.

You're right; it does tie in with Palpatine telling Luke to kill Vader in ROTJ... Makes you wonder if Luke could have become an even more powerful Sith than Vader?

Probably...

I like Palpatine messing with Anakins mind, and I like the idea that Lucas made Anakins birth ambigious. Is it the result of interfernance from a 'good' source (the 'living force' as Qui Gon saw it) or a bad one (the sith)? what is Anakins destiny? its left intentionally ambigious until RotJ, where he finally fulfills the prophecy and restores balance by killing the last sith (himself included).

I agree. I did like that aspect of the film, and I'm glad that Lucas really gave Ian McDiarmid a chance to stand out in this one; in the first two his role was disappointingly small, IMHO.

Your point about whether Anakin is a product of good or evil is interesting also, in the light of that my dad believes that Darth Plagius was Palpatine's own master, and that it was Palpatine who offed him. I like that thought very much. . .

Did people laugh in the threatre when he said "nooooooooooooooooooooo"?

My dad did. Then my mom joined in, and then I started to laugh!

It was quiet laughter though; I wouldn't want to ruin the film for anyone else...

I'm waiting for that moment to be parodied on the internet. I'd love to see it spliced with Howard Dean flipping out.

-Anakin rises from the table-

"YEAAAAAH! YEEEAAAAGGHHHHHH!"

I'll have you know that you nearly killed me with that.

On a more serious note, though, can't we discuss this film politely? I thought that Chefelf said "No Flaming, people". We don't have to use "gusher" and "basher" like obscenities against each other.

Not to get on a high horse myself, but when people start slinging insults over a subjective opinion on a movie, I think it's just silly. It's not a life-or-death thing.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""You're right; it does tie in with Palpatine telling Luke to kill Vader in ROTJ... Makes you wonder if Luke could have become an even more powerful Sith than Vader?""

I imagine that Luke probably could have become even more powerful than Vader.

[J m HofMarN]

Jariten- About your comments on ep2 - I think Jango and Boba were both typical nothing bad guys, but Boba was especially stupid since he seemed completely insane and evil. I mean he's a little kid, with a powerful warrior chasing his father far out in the deep reaches of space, and he's chanting "get im dad get him!"

Also, about the "vicious mindless monsters" That will NEVER make sense.

1: She is tied to THREE sticks. and not very well I might add. each of her hands is tied to one end of a single stick and her feet are free. She could have fallen down and gotten free in a second.

2: Cleeg says they've had her for over a month. So what the fuck? They keep her for a month tied to a stick? That's not a vicious killer its just dumb as fuck.

3: She dies literally of a cut on her cheek.

However, I have almost nothing bad to say about ep 3. It really brought things together and lacked so many of the problems from ep 1 and 2.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""3: She dies literally of a cut on her cheek.""

Its a possibility that she was raped to the point of dieing. It's possible. Sick... but possible.

[jariten]

However, I have almost nothing bad to say about ep 3. It really brought things together and lacked so many of the problems from ep 1 and 2.

seriously? you liked it then?

Shmi looked liked she'd been severly beaten to me, and strongly tied up. I'm not sure why you object to a description of them as "vicious" and "mindless" either. What about how they were portrayed in ANH?

[Richard]

I thought that they had Shmi kept alive because they were raping her repeatedly. I couldn't think of another reason why they would keep her alive. They couldn't spell this out to the audience, but I think this seems like the most valid reason. The only other reason could be that they just want her around to beat up, which doesn't seem taht beneficial to them.

THEY'RE ANIMALS. AND I KILLED THEM LIKE ANIMALS. I HATE THEM.

[diligent_d]

I always thought that was the funniest part of Clones. It was supposed to show Anakin sliding to the Dark Side when he killed the Sand People...but I was like "They're fucking Tusken Raiders, man! You just did Tatooine a favour!"

[J m HofMarN]

Jariten- I wont discuss ROTS yet, saving that for my website, but it will be a revelation. However as for the sand people, play KOTOR, and remember that even mindless animals don't tie other animals to sticks for a month.

Other guys - Ermmm right... rape is something that dosnt occur in SW except by Midichlorians. If there were even a hint of that Anakins actions would have been totally justified if sand peoples culture condoned random rape, which all indications say it dosnt. The sand people are not sand people-like in ep2. But I know they're not month-long-rapists-of-death. That's insane.

[jariten]

Jariten- I wont discuss ROTS yet, saving that for my website, but it will be a revelation. However as for the sand people, play KOTOR, and remember that even mindless animals don't tie other animals to sticks for a month.

Will you send me a PM when you put it up on your site? Im really interested in reading it. anyway, we've got to discuss the content of these films using only the films themselves. and just going off that evidence, theres nothing contradictory in the behaviour of the sandpeople.

I do want to play KOTOR though.