[Code Red]

If this point has already been mentioned before, please accept my craven apologies while I go and fall on my Kellogs Lightsabre etc etc...

The Jedi, and more particularly the Jedi Council are so thick they frankly deserve to die. Consider this - Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan (not a council member I know, but stick with me) and all the various fish/octopus/chicken/dog-headed Jedi are on Genosis for the final battle.

They know that Jango Fett was used as the template for the Clone Army (the "goodies").

But there's Jango cosying up with Dooku, Poggle, Gunray and Metal Mickey (the "baddies") at the execution.

At no point do any of them think "hang on, why is the master template for the Republic Clone Army fighting on behalf of the representatives of the Separatist forces? I smell a conspiracy!!!"

Even my slightly dim-witted younger brother spotted this straight away and yet none of these so-called Master Jedi made the connection.

Not to mention the fact that this clone army has mysteriously appeared at precisely the right moment that it was needed. Even Dan Quayle would have suspected they were being manipulated.

[StarWarsIsUs]

This has been discussed in many forums, and I don't remember it being discussed it this one. TheForce.net has a lot of discussions like this. But I do not suggest going there, as it is crowded with gushers.

[HK 47]

The origin of the clone army has been discussed here, but not from this angle. The clone template fights with the separatists. Hmmm, I wonder how that would have looked if Jango had survived until Yoda turns up with the army. Jedi stupidity however is a very common topic here and you will find that virtually all on this forum agree with you. Welcome!

[CowboyCurtis]

I agree, the only way for these movies to absolutely work/make sense if the characters are stupid. What was it called in another topic, "The Ebert Factor?"

[Radu094]

The plot fails to meet common sense on so many levels it is hard to know where to begin:

Anakin not saving her mother after pretty much saving an entire planet from invasion.

Palpatine attempting to kill queen Amidala.. then needing her to overthrow the Chancelor.

Palpatine again creating an army of clones, just in time to help the Jedi kick the Geonosian's separatists army (who was also serving him.. so pretty much we are kinda witnessing two armies fighting ... but under the control of the same guy ? )

Here's an ideea: why not use the separatists's army to kick Jedi ass. They pretty much tied when the clones helped them out, so without the clones it shoudn't have been that dificult, would it ?


The Jedi find a large army and decide they have nothing better to do than to use it, without questioning for a minute why was that army created, and what purpose did it serve. So much for Jedi wisdom.

I've seen Justice League cartoons that make better sense than this plot :angry:

This post has been edited by Radu094: 18 May 2005 - 01:25 PM

[JW Wells]

I agree, the only way for these movies to absolutely work/make sense if the characters are stupid.  What was it called in another topic, "The Ebert Factor?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Roger Ebert coined the term "Idiot Plot" to refer to any film plot which only worked if all of the characters were idiots. I think that's what you're looking for here.

[floppydisk]

The characters reflect Lucas. Stupid.

I've seen Justice League cartoons that make better sense than this plot

That's because superheroes are awesome.

This post has been edited by floppydisk: 18 May 2005 - 01:27 PM

[Storm]

They know that Jango Fett was used as the template for the Clone Army (the "goodies").

But there's Jango cosying up with Dooku, Poggle, Gunray and Metal Mickey (the "baddies") at the execution.

At no point do any of them think "hang on, why is the master template for the Republic Clone Army fighting on behalf of the representatives of the Separatist forces?  I smell a conspiracy!!!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jango Fett is what we call a "bounty hunter". He mentions that him being used as the clone template is "just a job". There's no reason why he couldn't be hired to be the clone template and then also be hired to assasinate Queen Amidala.

As for Obi-Wan chasing Jango from Kamino, I too would probably run to a person I previously worked for, especially when that person is someone as powerful as Count Dooku.

This post has been edited by Storm: 18 May 2005 - 01:31 PM

[Veer]

Jango Fett is what we call a "bounty hunter".  He mentions that him being used as the clone template is "just a job".  There's no reason why he couldn't be hired to be the clone template and then also be hired to assasinate Queen Amidala. 

Given the fact the clone army was ordered in suspicious circumstances, not to mention he claims to have been recruited by someone called 'Tyrannus'. Evil sith Lord, hello? The only explenation that works is that the Jedi are idiots.

As for Obi-Wan chasing Jango from Kamino, I too would probably run to a person I previously worked for, especially when that person is someone as powerful as Count Dooku.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I belive him leading Obi-wan to Dooku was part of Sidious's plan. Why he tried to kill him, I don't know though.

[Casual Fan]

As has been pointed out here before, by the time AOTC ends its pretty much established that Palpatine controls:

1) The clone army

2) The separatist army, which the clone army is fighting

3) The Senate (as per Count Dooku)

Not only that, he seems to have controlled them since the beginning of the movie. He doesn't control the Jedi, but the separatists by themselves seem to be able to handle them.

So WTF? Why doesn't he just take over? It seems that Palpatine established his power offscreen, sometime between TPM and AOTC.

That's really all you need to know about the "plot".

[Storm]

Given the fact the clone army was ordered in suspicious circumstances, not to mention he claims to have been recruited by someone called 'Tyrannus'. Evil sith Lord, hello? The only explenation that works is that the Jedi are idiots.
I belive him leading Obi-wan to Dooku was part of Sidious's plan. Why he tried to kill him, I don't know though. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the Jedi's are idiots. This is a well established fact in the prequel trilogy. However, I think they are supposed to appear as fools because they are so arrogant and sure of themselves.

The only point I was trying to make is that Jango isn't necessarily loyal to one person, therefore you can't really use him as a connection between the Sith and the Clone Army.

This post has been edited by Storm: 18 May 2005 - 02:35 PM

[StarWarsIsUs]

Now we are getting into grounds that have been discussed over and over and over and over, etc. Seriously, guys, we have discussed this before! But I will say that these things are still good points. KEEP THEM COMING!!!

[Storm]

Now we are getting into grounds that have been discussed over and over and over and over, etc. Seriously, guys, we have discussed this before! But I will say that these things are still good points. KEEP THEM COMING!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being on the defensive of these topics is ridiculously challenging, especially when you get no support with any of the points you make.

[Bohrok Awakener]

It's odd, I've never really thought about it that way. Know I do, it's so obvious - I think that Yoda, with over 800 years of experience of a Jedi, should have recognised that almost instantly. And you can't say that they didn't notice Jango Fett - I mean, Mace Windu actually had a fight with him. He certainly understood that he had killed the guy, and he had been trying to kill him. He obviously understood that Jango was bad.

And yet, here he is, leading an army of copies of the same man! It's like George Bush commanding an army of Saddam clones. There's also that whole Syfo-Dias thing, which no-one really believes. So, the Jedi know that there's this army of clones of this bad guy, and they supposedly were ordered by the Republic. They have no proof whatsoever though, and the fact that Jango Fett and Darth Tyranus were involved with the clones' development seems to make it clear that there is something odd going on with them. Obi-Wan might not have felt a disturbance in the Force with the clones, but she should have at least been able to see that there was something very dark-sided going on anyway.

[Storm]

The Jedi perhaps became more skeptic on the connection between the clone army and the Sith after the clone army saved the Jedi from annihilation on Geonosis.