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How Many Reasons To Hate ... ? An Early Guess...

#46 User is offline   Dark_Sith Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Madam Corvax)
Hell, he did not even fill the gaps created by previous episodes. For example, I would have liked to find out who was this Mater Sifo Dias who ordered the Clone Army. Was this explained? This was a good idea, but it was never fully elaborated


True, he could have explained more about Syfo Dias in the movie. But, I don't think he should go into much detail for him. He isn't really a big important character. I know we would all like to know why he ordered the cloone army, how he was killed...etc. But, that would, in a sense, make the movie too long. I would also reccomend reading Lybrinth of Nightmare, if you want to know more about Master Syfo Dias.
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#47 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Jeff @ May 22 2005, 08:10 PM)
Actually, during Episode 2 guess who was sitting of the right of Chefelf during his first viewing of the movie....THIS GUY!!!


I'm sorry you couldn't have been alongside me for Ep III. You would have been treated to some of my best cringes to date! smile.gif

Ep II was particularly painful. I think Jeff's favorite part was my reaction to Jango saying, "Boba!" I hadn't been prepared for that and I wasn't equipped to deal with it.
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#48 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Dark_Sith @ May 22 2005, 08:19 PM)
  True, he could have explained more about Syfo Dias in the movie. But, I don't think he should go into much detail for him. He isn't really a big important character. I know we would all like to know why he ordered the cloone army, how he was killed...etc.  But, that would, in a sense, make the movie too long. I would also reccomend reading Lybrinth of Nightmare, if you want to know more about Master Syfo Dias.


i suppose you're right. but the problem is i don't care enough about the PT to read PT EU. I cared enough about the OT to pick up Shadows of the Empire, Truce at Bakura, Courtship of Princess Leia, Zhan Trilogy, and almost all of the Rogue Squadron series.

i just don't want to read Labyrinth of Nightmare because i can't stand the PT universe. If its bad, its bad. If its good, its worse, because then i just get pissed that PT EU was better than PT canon, and if the characters were good, ticked off at how much the movie characters sucked. sorry dude
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#49 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:45 AM

QUOTE (Dark_Sith @ May 22 2005, 08:19 PM)
[ I would also reccomend reading Lybrinth of Nightmare, if you want to know more about Master Syfo Dias.


I was dreading this sort of reply. Mind you, in addition to what JAWF said also not everywhere in the world they care enought to translate and publish these novels, because people don't care enough to read them. Basically they want to see film and that's all.

Anyway, if Syfo Dias is not that important, why bother with him at all? Why bother with Count Dooku, I mean, look at him, story and plotwise he turned out to be a totally expendable character. He was laudly established as a plausible villain in AOTC, only to be killed within ten minutes in ROTS without his saying more than two sentences. Lucas did a Peter Jackson with him, I wonder what poor Mr Lee must think about bein killed at the beginning of every sequel he is in laugh.gif

Anyway, the reasn WHY the Clone Army was created is the fundamental thing - where all these white bearmoured men came from? We are not being told, or being told by some obscure awful novel from EU. I strongly object to my money being siphoned like that
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#50 User is offline   Kirjava Icon

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (Madam Corvax @ May 23 2005, 01:45 AM)
Anyway, the reasn WHY the Clone Army was created is the fundamental thing - where all these white bearmoured men came from? We are not being told, or being told by some obscure awful novel from EU. I strongly object to my money being siphoned like that


Having just finished watching AoTC on television this evening, I thought the explanation was needed. I'll be the first to admit that I'm by no means a Star Wars expert, but the average person viewing the movies isn't one either, and without a solid explanation it felt like a bad case of deus ex machina to me.

"Oh, look! We just so happened to have discovered a massive army of clones at the same time the enemy has created a massive army of droids! How fortunate!" rolleyes.gif

Some say that it was apparent in RoTS that Dooku ordered the clones, but a great many more say they didn't find it apparent at all. And as this forum is almost exclusively populated by people with high intelligence who know their Star Wars stuff, I'd say that it definitely wasn't shown well enough for the average viewer to get it.

How the clones were discovered in AoTC also seems quite dubious to me, given it was just Obi Wan trying to find out where a dart had come from. If Obi Wan hadn't bothered trying to track down the owner of the dart (and if he hadn't asked help from Yoda, who in turn asked help from a five-year-old), no one would have known about the clones and the Jedi would have been doomed in that arena. Something more pressing and important should have taken Obi Wan there, or else it's just a stupidly contrived plot point like you'd find in an HP book. I just don't think anything was handled well in the clones story line, even using every bit of information taken from any of the movies and throwing it all together.

I can't recall anything from the original movies being left with so many loose ends even between movies, let alone at the very ending of the story line.
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#51 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:35 AM

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Lucas did a Peter Jackson with him, I wonder what poor Mr Lee must think about bein killed at the beginning of every sequel he is in


That never occured to me. Huh. Interesting. blink.gif
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#52 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:08 AM

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jariten, I would have more respect for your opinions if I thought that there was the slightest possibility you would dislike this film. If there's one person here who is absolutely, positively, 100% biased in favour of the prequels, it's you - I've seen you concede that Lucas might be wrong on maybe two or three occasions the entire time you've been here, and then only after we'd argued you into the ground. Given this, it seems a little hypocritical of you to accuse Chefelf of going in with pre-conceived opinions, especially when you admit that some of the most skeptical bashers here have changed their minds after seeing the film. Are you implying that only these people are being honest, whereas anyone who didn't change their minds could only think that way because they'd already decided to hate the movie?


I didnt think that chefelf went in wanting to hate the film, only that he'd got himself into a position where it would be difficult for him to do anything other than bash the film in his (admittedly very funny) reasons to hate list.

I mean, didnt you start writing them before you had even seen the film, chefelf?

Perhaps i'm way off the mark with this, but its just my perception.

Now then, dont get me wrong, there are things in this film that are badly done, theres things that I wouldve done differently. None of those are enough for me to dislike the film though, and the same goes for all the others, the OT included. I personally thought that i've always been honest about thinking there are a lot of mistakes in the films, sorry if that didnt come off.
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#53 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 24 2005, 12:08 PM)
Now then, dont get me wrong, there are things in this film that are badly done, theres things that I wouldve done differently. None of those are enough for me to dislike the film though, and the same goes for all the others, the OT included. I personally thought that i've always been honest about thinking there are a lot of mistakes in the films, sorry if that didnt come off.

The reason it doesn't come off, jariten, is that you virtually never admit to these mistakes when you're challenged on them. Your insistence on dreaming up the most insanely convoluted explanations for all the blatant plot holes and inconsistencies in the PT has become legendary in this forum. If you simply liked the Prequels in their own right I could understand (OK, no I couldn't, but I could at least accept it), but how you can seriously claim that this stuff makes sense - or fits in properly with the OT - is utterly beyond me.

Anyway, I don't agree with you about Chefelf being unable to do anything but bash the films - especially the idea that he'd started writing the list before he'd even seen the films. But I'll leave it up to him to defend himself on that point.

This post has been edited by Helena: 24 May 2005 - 06:42 AM

QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#54 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 07:47 AM

legendary?!

you make me sound so...epic...

QUOTE
is that you virtually never admit to these mistakes when you're challenged on them


you mean I dont admit to agreeing with you on what you consider to be mistakes? Fair enough, I agree with that. The trouble is that what I do consider to be mistakes rarely comes up, and if it does it seems to be stuff thats barely worth commenting on anyway (rubbish love story etc.).

QUOTE
especially the idea that he'd started writing the list before he'd even seen the films


I honesty thought I saw them a week or so before RotS was released, but I could be wrong.

This post has been edited by jariten: 24 May 2005 - 07:50 AM

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#55 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:11 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 24 2005, 01:47 PM)
you mean I dont admit to agreeing with you on what you consider to be mistakes? Fair enough, I agree with that. The trouble is that what I do consider to be mistakes rarely comes up, and if it does it seems to be stuff thats barely worth commenting on anyway (rubbish love story etc.).
I honesty thought I saw them a week or so before RotS was released, but I could be wrong.

If they weren't mistakes you wouldn't have to come up with all the credibility-stretching explanations that aren't actually supported by the films. I'd be interested to know what you do consider a mistake, however.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#56 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE
If they weren't mistakes you wouldn't have to come up with all the credibility-stretching explanations that aren't actually supported by the films


well then obviously I would'nt consider them to be mistakes in the first place!
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#57 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:38 AM

I'm not stupid, jariten. If these things did have a sensible, plausible explanation then I could work it out as easily as you could. I don't think you're stupid either, quite the opposite in fact - I just don't see why you insist on wasting your intelligence trying to do what Lucas should be doing himself, i.e. trying to make the plot of his films consistent. If you have to spend hours constructing an elaborate scenario to defend a certain plot element, it's not good storytelling in the first place.

Anyway, I know by now that there's not the slightest chance of us reaching agreement on any of these issues, so I call truce. I'm thinking of taking a break from these forums for a while anyway, as I'm starting to get rather bored of having the same debates over and over again. Maybe I'll start posting more again when I've seen Episode III for myself.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#58 User is offline   Chefelf Icon

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 12:24 PM

Okay, the latest figures are that there will be 82 reasons. Read more about it here...

http://www.chefelf.c...?showtopic=3337

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