[njamilla]

I'm here because I like and even respect the people who post in this forum. Essentially we all love SW but we're also mature enough to recognize, and laugh at on occasion, all the blemishes of the saga.

We all rant. But at least people have a reason to rant. Not because they spit out the first thought that pops up in their brain.

If the reason to hate is "it sucks", then the reason to like is "it is cool".

What a great quote! Madam Covax, I'm going to use your quote, with your name attached, of course.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Honestly though, there is no point of us arguing like this. We each have a special gift called "free will", therefore everyone is entitled to their own opinions. At one point I really liked Chef's reasons and supported all of them. But then I realized that despite they are damn funny, a lot of them are just blown out of proportion. Two months ago I would have been saying "Revenge of the Sith" is going to suck, but then I watched the biography of Star Wars on the OT DVD and gained a lot of respect for Lucas. The man practically sacrificed his family, and even his health at times, to make the movies. So yeah, he made some mistakes in Episodes I and II. But there are good things in them, you just have to look for them.

I, for one, have not lost all respect for Lucas, either. I realize that a person can change alot in twenty years worth of a break. But when Lucas came back to make the prequels, he really did make them too different. While we bashers can sit here and waste our lives, insulting something that is never going to be redone, the gushers are the ones who see the PT as it is... worthwhile movies. BUT, I myself cannot see them as good movies. I have been stuck in the OT, so that is not my perception. Though, I will make an effort, after seeing ROTS, to give gushers their rights, and I will not go out of my way to insult them anymore. Those short-lived times are over for me.

[jariten]

I personally loved reading Chefelfs Reasons to Hate lists, despite the fact that I like both ep1 and 2. It was funny, which is more than you could say for a lot of the tiresome critics shocked that the PT didnt live up the version of the OT ( a DARK ADULT DRAMA!) that exists only in their heads.

However, because of that, I just cant believe that he went into ep3 with any intention other than to want to hate it so that he could come up with another list.

Not entirely his fault of course, where else is there for him to go at this point?

Anyway, looking forward to reading (and disagreeing with) it.

[civilian_number_two]

Storm, I don't understand the energy you're putting in to this one claim that everyone who posts on these boards is just toadying up to Chefelf. From my point of view, this place is full of very opinionated people who tend not to agree on a lot of tiny points (Whisper: That's what you get on the Internet. /whisper)

Yes, a lot of people came to this site and began posting because they read Chef's reasons and wanted either to agree or to disagree. But there's no profit in agreeing; Chef doesn't hand out lollipops for the best post that sounds like something he'd agree with. These boards have had many members Chef disagreed with very strongly; and there have been some heated debates for sure; and Chefelf has not banned one member to this day.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that you are jealous of Chefelf for some reason (I honestly can't imagine what), and that you should create your own website so that you can fill t with people who agree with you and who toady up to you, if you think that would be cool. It's not what Chef did; I can tell you that, but you might like it.

[Madam Corvax]

What a great quote! Madam Covax, I'm going to use your quote, with your name attached, of course.

Thanks, njamilla. It is an honour for me to be quoted by you.

Storm - I'll go and look for your reasons to like ROTS. I am not without power to see good things. However your reasons have to be a bit more substantial than "neat idea" and it is innovative. Having a washing mashine as a villian is innovative, too.

Anyway, going back to reasons to like ROTS. Maybe there are some. Maybe in the case of ROTS I was not looking hard enough, true. I can see now that I was too harsh with AOTC, when I saw ROTS. For one thing AOTC had a woman who was feisty and could kick ass, and wore at least one nice costume. It had really lovely, imaginative scenery, it had colours other than orange and maroon. For heaven's sake, it even had jokes, bad, but still.

I have just realised that there was not even one joke in ROTS. Not a single one. True, the theme of the film was serious et all, but I mean, one joke, even about falling into the nest of Gundarks or whatever!

It just crashes in the self-importance of itself and frankly, it suffocates me.

In case of AOTC, my first gut reaction was, if only! If only they got me to design the costumes, if only they got a good writer to smooth out the dialogue, if only there was a director who can kick Hayden in the stomach and elicit from him another exp​ression but sulennes and gaping at Padme, if only they removed the jerking scene and so on, the film could have been saved, it had potential. I can see nothing that could have been saved here.

Padme is delegated into the materinity ward to weep and wring her hands, Obi-wan got to ride a lizard, Yoda did more Kung-fu, and Lucas thought he could patch up the continuity with a check list within the last ten minutes of the film:
- get rid of Mace Windu - check
- turn to the dark side - check
- kill other Jedi, (don't forget the Twi'lek one, makes a nice action figure) - check
- droid memory -erase - check
-Leia to alderaan - check
and so on and so on. Sorry, but that is now what I would consider a good story telling. Would you?

[Helena]

jariten, I would have more respect for your opinions if I thought that there was the slightest possibility you would dislike this film. If there's one person here who is absolutely, positively, 100% biased in favour of the prequels, it's you - I've seen you concede that Lucas might be wrong on maybe two or three occasions the entire time you've been here, and then only after we'd argued you into the ground. Given this, it seems a little hypocritical of you to accuse Chefelf of going in with pre-conceived opinions, especially when you admit that some of the most skeptical bashers here have changed their minds after seeing the film. Are you implying that only these people are being honest, whereas anyone who didn't change their minds could only think that way because they'd already decided to hate the movie?

In any case, I personally don't believe that Chefelf went into that movie determined to hate it. I know for a fact that he's been trying to avoid any spoilers in order to go in with as few pre-conceptions as possible. In fact, that may even have something to do with it; many of the spoilers sounded so awful that it wouldn't be surprising if the actual movie seemed good in comparison.

[The Lord of Dorkness]

I saw the movie with seven friends. It was so much fun, I laughed a lot: when R2D2 fought the big, mean robots, when the robots opened their mouths, when Anakin killed all the little children (Seriously! The scene was so poorly shot, I was bent double over laughing.... and not alone).

I just wanted to tell someone this:
Me, being a star wars "expert" (compared to them) and new trilogy critic, was told on several occations beforehand NOT to open my mouth at ANY time during the film. And I tried to shut up.

Until I saw General Griveous. I leaned over to my nearest friend and whispered (inspired by one of the nitpicks about the trailer): "See that cloak? He has a kind, friendly, weak mother why doesn't want her angel to catch a cold."
A second after the words were out of my mouth, the General leaned forward and coughed, clearly sick.
It took a while for us to stop laughing.

[Jordan]

Storm, I don't understand the energy you're putting in to this one claim that everyone who posts on these boards is just toadying up to Chefelf.  From my point of view, this place is full of very opinionated people who tend not to agree on a lot of tiny points (Whisper: That's what you get on the Internet. /whisper)

Yes, a lot of people came to this site and began posting because they read Chef's reasons and wanted either to agree or to disagree.  But there's no profit in agreeing; Chef doesn't hand out lollipops for the best post that sounds like something he'd agree with.  These boards have had many members Chef disagreed with very strongly; and there have been some heated debates for sure; and Chefelf has not banned one member to this day.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that you are jealous of Chefelf for some reason (I honestly can't imagine what), and that you should create your own website so that you can fill t with people who agree with you and who toady up to you, if you think that would be cool.  It's not what Chef did; I can tell you that, but you might like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly! This is the kind of thing I was trying to say over many threads. n

[Chefelf]

Excellent, I shall make the counter-list, then!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go right ahead. If I told you that I've received 200 emails from people who have gone through each and every one of my 78 (and 64) reasons with a counter-argument that may be a conservative estimate.

That's fine. It's great. If I told you that 0 of these emails have changed my opinion, that estimate would probably be spot on.

If the reason to hate is "it sucks", then the reason to like is "it is cool". If you have anything "pro" other than that, let me know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with njamilla. Excellent quote and an even better point.

And you are absolutely right, I've forgotten to mention it - nitpicking is FUN!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY. I think people tend to think I'm some sort of angry renegade SW fan in my mom's basement, typing away in pure anger. I do these lists for two reasons. 1) It's FUN! I love watching the movies, taking notes, and blowing the stupidest little things out of proportion. Sure, I think there are major flaws in these movies but it's over the top and it's all done for a laugh. 2) I do feel legitimately let down by these movies and this is a release for me. I am not angry, just disappointed. Some people create their own fanfic versions of the trilogy. Others crop pictures of Lucas doing embarrassing things. Others invade message boards to call Lucas every four letter word under the sun. I simply get hyper-critical with the thoughts I had while watching the movies.

I personally loved reading Chefelfs Reasons to Hate lists, despite the fact that I like both ep1 and 2. It was funny, which is more than you could say for a lot of the tiresome critics shocked that the PT didnt live up the version of the OT ( a DARK ADULT DRAMA!) that exists only in their heads.

However, because of that, I just cant believe that he went into ep3 with any intention other than to want to hate it so that he could come up with another list.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put, jariten, old friend. If you can't laugh at the shortcomings of a movie you love then maybe you're taking that movie too seriously. Does anyone honestly believe that I have a seething hatred of Star Wars? Would I devote this kind of time to nitpicking something I truly hated?

I do this because it's great fun. It's fun to laugh at and make fun of things you love. I love Star Wars... I am just not overly thrilled with these movies.

These originally showed on Lance & Eskimo, a humor site. Nitpicking the negative components in the PT is funny. Talking about how awesome something is or how much it rules... not so much.

I go over this in my ROTS "Reasons to Hate" list but I think that "Reasons to Hate" may give people the wrong idea. It's a pretty strong title I chose a while back. I think it's kinda morphed into something entirely different. A more appropriate title would probably be "72 Observations I have made while watchine Episode III". Not quite as funny though.

[StarWarsIsUs]

- get rid of Mace Windu - check
- turn to the dark side - check
- kill other Jedi, (don't forget the Twi'lek one, makes a nice action figure) - check
- droid memory -erase - check
-Leia to alderaan - check
and so on and so on. Sorry, but that is now what I would consider a good story telling. Would you?

WHAT? This is stupid! Of course it was somewhat like that, but you cannot blame Lucas! It was meant to fill in all the holes. You want to let him leave a bunce of holes empty? I consider it great storytelling. It's not the checklist... it's the way it was all carried out in the movie that made it good.

I watched the movie with 8 people sitting near me, all of us friends/family. ALL of them, even if not liking ROTS, liked at least ORDER 66! Where 'kill other Jedi' is on your list!

[Madam Corvax]

Chefelf - thank you

StarWarsIsUs - What I meant is that the check list was done like in the last ten minutes of the film. There were three films to resolve all this, and still Lucas is doing it in a hurry, filling someholes, forgetting about others. It is not possible to patch things up just within 10 minutes, what was he doing, spending time writing about pod races and trade fereration, when we wanted some coherent story.

Hell, he did not even fill the gaps created by previous episodes. For example, I would have liked to find out who was this Mater Sifo Dias who ordered the Clone Army. Was this explained? This was a good idea, but it was never fully elaborated.

Order 66 - hm, i think it was one of the easy shortcuts Lucas took. It could not have worked at all, but ok, maybe it was cool.

This post has been edited by Madam Corvax: 22 May 2005 - 10:49 AM

[StarWarsIsUs]

There were three films to resolve all this, and still Lucas is doing it in a hurry, filling someholes, forgetting about others. It is not possible to patch things up just within 10 minutes, what was he doing, spending time writing about pod races and trade fereration, when we wanted some coherent story.

I cannot argue with that. I agree with some parts of what you said. Lucas did have three films to explain it all. He did indeed, IMO, mess up on two of them. I just appreciate the way he explained all he could in ROTS, in an orderly fashion.

Hell, he did not even fill the gaps created by previous episodes. For example, I would have liked to find out who was this Mater Sifo Dias who ordered the Clone Army. Was this explained? This was a good idea, but it was never fully elaborated.

I think Lucas wanted us just to figure out it was Dooku. I can't argue with this one. Because I think AOTC was completely stupid. IMO, you are right about this, but I don't know how well it would have fit in ROTS, under any circumstance.

Order 66 - hm, i think it was one of the easy shortcuts Lucas took. It could not have worked at all, but ok, maybe it was cool.

This probably was the main reason they liked it. Coolness. Lol

This post has been edited by StarWarsIsUs: 22 May 2005 - 11:21 AM

[Storm Shadow]

While watching the movie I couldnt help but wonder, everytime I saw something that made me roll my eyes, if this was going to be included on Chef's Episode 3 list

[Coco]

There were three films to resolve all this, and still Lucas is doing it in a hurry, filling someholes, forgetting about others. It is not possible to patch things up just within 10 minutes, what was he doing, spending time writing about pod races and trade fereration, when we wanted some coherent story.

Yep, I totally agree. One of the things that bothered me the most was that I left the theater with the feeling that the movie was rushing to tell everything in what seemed like a sequence of two-minutes long scenes glued together. I remembered, when AOTC ended, my first question was 'how is he going to put all the things that are left to tell in just one movie?'. I recognize that I have to watch it again (I'm going tomorrow), this time knowing that the film is (again) not what I expected.

[Jeff]

While watching the movie I couldnt help but wonder, everytime I saw something that made me roll my eyes, if this was going to be included on Chef's Episode 3 list 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I saw the movie last night I was thinking the same thing.

Actually, during Episode 2 guess who was sitting of the right of Chefelf during his first viewing of the movie....THIS GUY!!!

His reactions to some of the parts were great....it still makes me laugh to this day.

-Jeff