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I have seen Revenge of the Sith and this is what I thought

#1 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 04:55 AM

Let me preface this by pointing out for those who do not yet know that I found Episodes I and II to be technically, creatively and in all other ways weak films.
Let me add that Revenge of the Sith does not resemble its predecessors in almost any way.

I went in with minimal spoilers, no reviews, no brush with the Clone Wars cartoons and as little opinion as I could, and as a result, there was nothing to stop me accepting the film on its own merits.

The reliance upon digital technology that so thoroughly sank Menace and Clones is here almost a blessing - the techniques have been polished to an extraordinary quality - this is not to say that many pieces do not have the distinct lack of texture found in computer generated images but that they have improved past the point where it is objectionable. So, in short, the technical quality of the film is far superior to the previous prequels.

As to the film itself.
It cannot be compared to any other Star Wars film - its sweeping scale, divergent stories and the heavy dosage of darkness injected into it are unlike anything we have seen before in the Star Wars saga. It stands alone and so thoroughly gives the gist of the backstory that it renders Episode I and II almost entirely unnecessary. The acting has improved, the writing has improved, and fortunately for us all the directing has.
It is very ponderous - not surprising for its size and scale and thusly took some time to 'take off' and has flaws.
Christopher Lee's Dooku fails to impress, but not because of the poor dialogue he was saddled with in AOTC but because he is summarily killed. Grievous also fails to convince that he is dangerous, menacing or even real. Hayden Christensen, who made a thoroughly unpleasant pretty boy Anakin in Clones when he was supposed to be a good man, but here he's supposed to be unpleasant and he takes to it with relish - also he is handsome in a hideous way here, which helps him further. Ewan MacGregor, who played a non-Obi-Wan in Menace, played the voice of Obi-Wan in Clones here, while far short of Alec Guinness does a good job.
Natalie Portman - whether through her own fault or through the stuff she was given as dialogue gives a rather weak performance, but she does notch up from her previous efforts - once again the romance scenes are poorly executed but they have picked up from "I don't like sand."
Ian McDirmid, who gave a very weak attempt at convincing in Return of the Jedi does a very convincing attempt at being weak here - and his conversion of Anakin, though efficient, is a touch too convenient. Samuel L. Jackson's Windu is far too ponderous to impress and his talents are wasted.

Gone is the clunky foreshadowing from Clones, and the music takes a stirring and haunting note when it should - Duel of the Fates, the 'money' scoring for the prequel trilogy which came off poorly for Maul and Evil Tusken Avenger Man Anakin is here very powerful.

Order 66 comes off brilliantly... it is completely different to any scene in any Star Wars movie - but it is an earthshakingly good scene.
The twin final confrontations are very good pieces - Yoda's Super Grover Battle Mode, which was the straw that beat the crushed cadaver of the camel who had already had his back broken in Episode II is here quite enjoyable - probably because it is put next to Palpatine's Super Grover, which was quite bad and his continuous laughing and gurgling further weakens the idea of a powerful Emperor.
Anakin and Obi-Wan however, work quite well - gone is the painfully fast/ponderously slow Episode I battle, or the poorly filmed lighting and camerawork of Dooku versus Anakin duel. The fight is well paced, well lit, well filmed - and its conclusion is powerful and believable. Anakins Terminator impression was a weird little bit, but it did work. The full Darth Vader treatment didn't work, largely because Hayden Christensen lacks the sheer physicality for the role. The final tie-ins made a good conclusion to the film.
One final point - Jar Jar Binks. He didn't die, but his relative absence probably was better - even his bloodstains would have tainted the film.
I don't know what rating to give it - but its miles ahead of Clones and Menace, and not far behind the Original Trilogy. It won't stand up to a nitpicking, but I'm willing to leave it be.
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#2 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:04 AM

QUOTE
and his conversion of Anakin, though efficient, is a touch too convenient


I sort of agree with you here. Although when he got down on one knee it didnt seem to me like Anakin was entirely convinced by what Sidious was saying. Although Anakin clearly was going right over the edge, what he says to Padme at the end makes me think that he just wanted to side with Sidious to save her, then overthrow him, then bring about peace. Which ties in with what he will later try with Luke. I like this idea of the sith always trying to kill each other off to take the top spot, the most power. I loved all that stuff about Darth Plagus (or whatever) and his apprentice killing him in his sleep. Plus, who was right about Anakins birth, Palpatine or Qui Gon?

I liked AotC before, but its improved now that I see what Lucas had in mind for this one.

If nothing else, it was a fun day out at the cinema. and how often can you say that these days?
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#3 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:11 AM

Well, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by a movie, that while flawed, was still enjoyable - if enjoyable is the right word to use for describing what was essentially a large-scale tragedy.

There was never a dull moment and there didn't seem to be any extraneous scenes. There were things that I didn't like about it but overall, it was a breathtaking film and dammit, it actually elicited real emotion out of me. But I'll get to that later. First, I'll get my nitpicking out of the way and then I'll close on the positive notes it deserves.

The nitpicks...

- I thought there was a bit too much silliness at the start of the movie with all the dicky droids. I particularly disliked the droids that jumped on Obi Wan's ship. That was just overkill, plain and simple.... and Anakin's way of knocking them off reminded me of Topper Harley using his plane to wack the enemy planes in Hot Shots.

- Springy R2. I know it's a little thing but it bugged me every time R2 leapt out of a ship. It always pulled me out of the movie when he did that.

- General Grievous. He was just a stupid villain. I hated the way he walked, talked, coughed and ran away like a girlie all the time.

- The most serious nitpick has to be that Palpatine's persuasion of Anakin, both in getting him to kill Count Dooku and in turning him to Darth Vader, was very cheesy.... in my humble opinion of course. I just couldn't see how that could work. It was very contrived and the whole time, I just thought "Anakin, how can you buy this rubbish?"

- There was also a cringe-worthy moment when Vader, in his new costume, gets up and does that drama thing "Where's Padme? I killed her? Noooooooooooooo!" That... sucked.

-The only other real problem for me was all the streamlined technology that was more advanced than what was in the original movies... especially the Corellian Corvette because it was supposed to be the same ship design as the ship that appears in the openning scene of Star Wars.



However, compared to the seemingly endless nitpicks I had with the last ones, six isn't that bad. The other thing is that watched in its own right, without thinking about the original movies, it is a good solid entertaining movie.

I thought the directing was a lot better and more cohesive. Gone was the contrived, overly-complicated silly plots of the previous film and instead Lucas treats us like sensible adults and gives us a straightforward story.

The music this time around was superb as well and it was appropriate to the tragedy that was unfolding. Hayden Christensen, while quite painful in the previous film, seemed to hold his own well enough here. And at the start of the movie, we finally got to see Anakin as a good man. Also, Obi Wan and Anakin actually had a real friendship here. Obi Wan's concern for Anakin was also very genuine.

Although Anakin would never turn in real life, given the pathetic cheesy persuasive techniques of Darth McDiarmind, his character arcs always seemed credible for his part.

There was some really powerful moments in this film too. I have to say that the Order 66 scene was unlike anything I've seen before. That was a really strong sequence - very emotional. The scope of the tragedy and the scale of this film exceeds anything we've ever seen in another Star Wars film, or most other films for that matter. I also thought it was very effective when they showed Yoda sensing all the Jedi being slaughtered and I really felt something, watching him in wordless aching pain. The Yoda in this film was a Yoda I could relate to and sympathise with. The same can be said for all the Jedi. Finally, they were written as real people that we cared about and mourned for when they died.

As an aside, it was also nice to finally see Bail Organa in the fray.

And the finale was nothing short of spectacular - grand, tragic, powerful, moving... it was all of those things. The exchange between Padme, Anakin and Obi Wan was something to treasure. And it was so good to see all these characters come into their own. The climactic duel between Obi Wan and Anakin, while a little over the top with the tower floating towards the lava waterfall, was absolutely riveting. And I felt that this DID give us what we'd been waiting for for all those years. The way it ended as well was also very innovative. Very stylishly done.

After the duel, I liked the nice juxtaposition of Padme and Anakin - one giving life, the other being virtually brought back to life.

All in all, it was a strong movie that really moved me and made an impression. It doesn't justify the rubbish that preceeded it and it doesn't really mesh with the original films, if for no other reason except that they just look too different. But I think it really works as a stand-alone. Watching it, I can almost find it in my heart to forgive George Lucas... on the proviso that he releases the untainted versions of the original movies on DVD, of course.

But whatever else, I can say about him and his skills, he did it this time. I was very pleasantly surprised. Episode III is a good solid movie and I think it'll be one I will watch quite a few times in the future. I can't believe I'm saying this...

Thanks George. May the force be with you.
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#4 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:27 AM

It grieves me to see JYAMG's ipinion so very different from mine...

For the full list of nitpicks, I hope at least Chefelf will not disappoint me. But just to add

- What was with the "kidnapping" I mean Dooku and Palpatine were allies, what would Dooku kidnap Palpatine? Would anyone kindly explain this too me?

- My eyes just hurt from the profusion of lights, lights, more lights, all those ships with lights. Compare it with pure elegance of the fleet of Star Destroyers from ESB. It was way too much

- And there is only so many time a gal can watch lightsabre duels

- Lizards, Wookies, lava, all the superfluous stuff was overwhelming

- haven't you noticed that the galaxy is populated like with a dozen people, and that Twi'lek Jedi girl?

- I hated the murky, dim orange colouring of the film. It takes a little more than sad colours to create an atmosphere

- There is one thing that bothers me a lot about Anakin turning to the Dark side. It messed up the whole philospphy of Jedi again. I mean, Anakin stops Windu from killing Palpatine. I thought this is what a Jedi would do, not to kill but have a fair trial, etc. And yet it was stopping Mace windu from killikng P. that turned Anakin to the Dark Side??? WTF?

I can't write anymore.
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#5 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:58 AM

Madam Corvax, if you complain about Lightsaber duels and special effects in ROTS, it just seems that you were not a target audience of this film! It doesn`t mean this film was bad!

Things that annoyed you made me excited, it is just a matter of taste!

And concerning the kidnapping- Palpatine has seen into the future, and saw a chance to destroy Obi-wan and test Anakin.

And yes, Jedi in this film made mistakes! This is why they lost and Luke will create a New Order!
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#6 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 07:04 AM

Also, you must remember, that Yoda told Anakin he should accept Padme dying!

Only Palpatine gave him hope!
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#7 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 07:40 AM

QUOTE
Well, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by a movie, that while flawed, was still enjoyable - if enjoyable is the right word to use for describing what was essentially a large-scale tragedy.


i'm glad we can finally agree on something!

QUOTE
What was with the "kidnapping" I mean Dooku and Palpatine were allies, what would Dooku kidnap Palpatine? Would anyone kindly explain this too me?


Sidious and Dooku were allies, not Palpatine and Dooku. its an alliance that no one else knew about.

QUOTE
Lizards, Wookies, lava, all the superfluous stuff was overwhelming


What made it superfluous?

QUOTE
There is one thing that bothers me a lot about Anakin turning to the Dark side. It messed up the whole philospphy of Jedi again. I mean, Anakin stops Windu from killing Palpatine. I thought this is what a Jedi would do, not to kill but have a fair trial, etc. And yet it was stopping Mace windu from killikng P. that turned Anakin to the Dark Side??? WTF?


I dont think that turned him to the darkside, he did that willingly to save Padme. The Mace thing was a differnet issue Palpatine uses to 'prove' his ideas about the Jedi betraying him and the Republic.

Didn't you like anything about it?
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#8 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:09 AM

QUOTE (jariten @ May 20 2005, 07:40 AM)
Sidious and Dooku were allies, not Palpatine and Dooku. its an alliance that no one else knew about.


Sorry, Jariten, just beats my logic why would anyone do that, because Sidious and Plpatine were the same person. If it is to serve as a plot to hide the relation, then still it is stupid plot device, introduced only to show some supposedly cool chase scenes.

QUOTE (jariten @ May 20 2005, 07:40 AM)
What made it superfluous?

I believe ht purpose of filmaking is not just to create cool images. If there is a scenc in the film, it should serve a purpose. If there is a duel, it should serve a purpose, and not to be presented there just because the zapping of lightsabre is cool. If they were the only purpose of filmmaking, why not just have two hours of duels. It does get boring, it is boring and excessive.

QUOTE (jariten @ May 20 2005, 07:40 AM)
Didn't you like anything about it?

No, come to think of it, I didn't like one thing about it. It was laughable, murky, as if cut out of bright paper. I liked some bits about AOTC, but there isn't one thing I like abou this one. GUess I am the minority and not target audience. Tough luck. A big shrug of my shoulders at all that
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#9 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:22 AM

Well without knowing the exact circumstances surrounding the kidnapping its hard to comment. but Palps wasnt in any real danger since he had Dooku around.

QUOTE
No, come to think of it, I didn't like one thing about it.


what about when Yoda took out the Imperial Guards?!
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:25 AM

I thought the thing about Palpatine and Dooku was that Palpatine used Dooku. Dooku didn't know that getting killed was part of the plan.

Anyway, I can understand why people wouldn't like it, Madam Corvax, as there are plenty of flaws with those vulture droids, parasite droids, jumping R2 and the rest.

It's funny though... I really didn't expect to enjoy this movie but despite the aforementioned flaws, I did. The final ending is a bit hollow though, with Vader standing around, not quite sure what to do, seeing how the movie's over and everything. But I'd still see it again.
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#11 User is offline   Madam Corvax Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:28 AM

Well, this moment warmed my heart because the whole cinema burst out laughing...

The other two laughing moments were when Vader was freeing himself -Frankenstein style, and when Padme was naming the twing... Honestly, people were chucking to that.

And c'mon. Qui-Gon brought into this Deux ex Machina... Will we get a TV series featuring endless training lightsabre duels between a ghost and Obi?

And the continuity... I was hoping for some decent resulution of continuity... All the discussion why Leia remembered her mother and Luke not...
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#12 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:30 AM

When I saw it a few of the laughs it got were-

when the super battle droid kicks over R2

when R2 backs away and puts the radio thing in his body

when yoda takes out the guards

when obi says "so uncivilised"

etc. etc.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:31 AM

Like I said, I don't think the continuity is there. And there are flaws a plenty... and I mean LOTS of things. But on its own merits, it's entertaining enough. I don't think it measures up to the originals by any means - although I'd say it's a more interesting film than Return of the Jedi. But it was lively and entertaining enough.
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#14 User is offline   SPQR Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:35 AM

The most laughs witnessed in the theater was when Yoda knocked out the Imperial Guards with a force push into a wall. That was sweet.
An nescis quantilla sapientia mundus regatur
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:39 AM

Sweet... I just thought up an analogy to my feelings towards Yoda. I feel like a devout Catholic who followed the life of chastity only because of teachings of one charismatic priest, and then one day comes to the recotry and finds this priest screwing a bimbo...


Luminous beings we are, not this crude mater...
Wars do not make anyone great...
Where you go, you won't need this [lightsabre]
DO or do not, there is no try....

And suddenly we have a guy who knocks people, does Kung-Fu, leads armies fo droids. I want my Yoda back...
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