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Your Nitpicks About Episode III *SPOILERS* list 'um, j0!

#16 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:08 AM

clone wars...

look for a thread called toon tie in...

i'm pretty sure i outlined it there.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:46 AM

1. Padme's Death: In ROTJ, when Luke asked Leia if she remembered her real mother, Leia replied by saying "Yes, but she died when I was very young. She was kind, but sad" (paraphrased). By having Padme die, it means that the woman Leia remembers as her real mom wasn't really her real mother after all. This means Leia had THREE moms - Padme (who dies during childbirth so Leia can't possibly remember her); Bail Organa's wife (who we must assume is the one who dies when Leia is young) and then her eventual adoptive mother.

2. Qui-Gon Who?: Lucas deleted the scene where Qui-Gon shows up and talks to Yoda about how to become a ghost, etc, but in a baffling move, he kept a later scene where Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has training for him on Tatooine to be taught to him by Qui-Gon. Now unless you know about the missing Qui-Gon scene, then the later one between Yoda/Obi makes no sense.

3. General Grievous: After being shown as a bad-ass Jedi assasin in the Clone Wars cartoon, the film version of Grievous shows him as a coward. Personally I don't think Grievous ever killed any Jedi. I think he happened to come ones already dead and simply took their lightsaber to make it seem like he killed them.

4. Anakin Kills Younglings: They never show Anakin killing any of the adult Jedi, he's only shown killing the kids/teens in the temple and the separatist on Mustaphar [sp?]. He doesn't "Help the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" like Obi-Wan said in ANH.

5. Who's stronger? Mace or Yoda?: Earlier in the film, Palpatine would have lost his battle against Mace Windu had Anakin not interferred, but later on Palp pretty much kicks Yoda's ass all around the senate chamber, to the point where Yoda runs away and into exile. So the question is, if Palp can defeat Yoda but not Windu, then who was the true Jedi Master?
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#18 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 02:24 AM

Here we go!

QUOTE
2. Qui-Gon Who?: Lucas deleted the scene where Qui-Gon shows up and talks to Yoda about how to become a ghost, etc, but in a baffling move, he kept a later scene where Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has training for him on Tatooine to be taught to him by Qui-Gon. Now unless you know about the missing Qui-Gon scene, then the later one between Yoda/Obi makes no sense.


i'm at a loss as to how this is a problem. Qui Gon (heard as a voice in 2) has clearly contacted yoda to tell him a thing or to about the Force, which Yoda will then teach to Obi, who'll learn it before ep.4. hence the 'if you strike me down...' bit. this explains why Anakin doesnt know whats happened to Obi after he cuts him down.

I loved this aspect of Sith, it really made Qui's role much stronger (I loved the character anyway).

QUOTE
3. General Grievous: After being shown as a bad-ass Jedi assasin in the Clone Wars cartoon, the film version of Grievous shows him as a coward. Personally I don't think Grievous ever killed any Jedi. I think he happened to come ones already dead and simply took their lightsaber to make it seem like he killed them.


why was he a coward? because he ran away from almost certain death?

QUOTE
4. Anakin Kills Younglings: They never show Anakin killing any of the adult Jedi, he's only shown killing the kids/teens in the temple and the separatist on Mustaphar [sp?]. He doesn't "Help the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" like Obi-Wan said in ANH.


because Obi Wan was there at the time of course, and knew exactly what Anakin did...
and how did he not "help the Emperor?"

QUOTE
5. Who's stronger? Mace or Yoda?


who cares?

great film, btw.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 03:28 AM

The eternal life thing could have just been BS on Palpatine's part to try to sway Anakin, not that he needed much sway or actually seemed to be swayed as much as went from poor actor to zombie for a sith lord in mid scene.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 03:48 AM

There's always someone...

QUOTE (jariten)
i'm at a loss as to how this is a problem. Qui Gon (heard as a voice in 2) has clearly contacted yoda to tell him a thing or to about the Force, which Yoda will then teach to Obi, who'll learn it before ep.4. hence the 'if you strike me down...' bit. this explains why Anakin doesnt know whats happened to Obi after he cuts him down.

I loved this aspect of Sith, it really made Qui's role much stronger (I loved the character anyway).


I wasn't talking about QGJ's role or character. I have no idea where you got that from. You're going on and on about something I wasn't talking about. I was complaining that GL removed an earlier sequence which showed QGJ talking to Yoda, but then kept a later scene where Yoda relayed the point of those talks to Obi. That made no sense to anyone unless you knew about the deleted scene. I'm talking about the film itself, not QGJ's role with the force. You completely misunderstood what I said there. At least try and understand a nitpick first before you jump on it.

QUOTE
why was he a coward? because he ran away from almost certain death?


He didn't just run away from death, he ran away from fights which he was supposedly trained in.

QUOTE
because Obi Wan was there at the time of course, and knew exactly what Anakin did...


Anakin just killed kids/teens in the temple. He's never shown killing any of the adult Jedi. So no, he didn't "Help the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" like Obi-Wan said in ANH. Anakin took out the younglings; Order 66 is what took out the Knights.

QUOTE
and how did he not "help the Emperor?"


I didn't say Anakin didn't help the Emperor. I said it turned out to be something other than what Obi said it was.

QUOTE
who cares?


People who like consistency in their storytelling, that's who.
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#21 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 04:08 AM

Isn`t he shown fighting Jedi in security footage?

It isn`t possible there were only children in Temple!

And I don`t think Order 66 killed all Jedi!
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:39 AM

Qui-Gon coming and speaking to Yoda would have been very stupid. It would be like in ROTJ when Obi-Wan's ghost came and sat down and walked around on the ground.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:48 AM

Yes, I was preparing to cringe at the sight for force ghost gon jinn. I can live without that scene, though I was hoping to see the gold leaf script spelling out (in arubesh?) "Journal of the Whills."

I though Greivious was hilarious. Just could not take him seriously. His cape, the overacting, the dialogue. Poodoo in the truest sense of the word.

I suppose Order 666 would've been too obvious.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:06 AM

too dark tongue.gif
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:15 AM

Palpatine: Execute Order 666.

Clone: That's a name that would better fit what we are about to do. Glad to hear you changed it. Order 66 wasn't as good of a title.

Palpatine: Thank you. At least someone appreciates the irony I have created!
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:42 AM

Well, the Mace or Yoda question is easily answered. Palpatine's powers have grown since the extinguishment of Mace and the rest of the Jedi Council, as the dark side/light side seems to exist in some sort of zero sum relationship. Probably just Anakin's conversion instantly adds to Palpatine's powers. Conversely, we can infer that Yoda's strength has diminished.

This logical consistency aside, however, the film is fairly wretched, marked by hideous dialogue, atrocious acting, ridiculous and superflous distractions by random droids in alleged dramatic scenes, a schizophrenically hasty conversion by Anakin to the dark side and endless legions of needlessly silly, weak, unfunny and personified droids.

At one point Padme asks "what if we're on the wrong side? what if the republic is actually the evil side?"

Why on earth would she ask this when the separatists are led by uniformly evil Sith lords and their sycophants! I kept waiting for Anakin to unmask General Grievous and discover some shred of decency ...

But no.

This film can only be praised in relation to its immediate predecessors, which is faint praise indeed.
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:49 AM

""Well, the Mace or Yoda question is easily answered. Palpatine's powers have grown since the extinguishment of Mace and the rest of the Jedi Council, as the dark side/light side seems to exist in some sort of zero sum relationship. Probably just Anakin's conversion instantly adds to Palpatine's powers. Conversely, we can infer that Yoda's strength has diminished. ""

It is rumoured by some that Palpatine's powers that flow from the Darkside of the Force, come from the Kiber Crystal that he wears around his neck. The Kiber crystal was supposed to be the baseline of the original Star Wars story. I've not read anything about it in the books (since I hardly ever look through a SW novel), and have only heard clear mention of it in the early 70's scripts of Luke Starkiller. I think it was on another forum, or something, that I heard Palpatine wears the Kiber crystal to make himself more powerful in the force.
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#28 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:21 AM

But Grevious was supposed to be funny, wasn`t he?!

Him being over the top was really cool to me!

"Crush them!" -i loved it!
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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:36 AM

Maybe if Mace hadn't made him ill with the force attack in the Clone Wars, then Grievous would have been more evil-driven. Can't expect everything from someone who is totally ill and dieing.
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#30 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE
I wasn't talking about QGJ's role or character. I have no idea where you got that from. You're going on and on about something I wasn't talking about. I was complaining that GL removed an earlier sequence which showed QGJ talking to Yoda, but then kept a later scene where Yoda relayed the point of those talks to Obi. That made no sense to anyone unless you knew about the deleted scene.


but why did it make no sense?! WHY?!! taking what we know about Qui Gon from ep 2 and what then happens in ep4, where is the confusion?

QUOTE
He didn't just run away from death, he ran away from fights which he was supposedly trained in.


and which we was getting a kicking in. whats the point in sticking around just to die?

QUOTE
Anakin just killed kids/teens in the temple. He's never shown killing any of the adult Jedi. So no, he didn't "Help the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" like Obi-Wan said in ANH. Anakin took out the younglings; Order 66 is what took out the Knights.


yes but my point was, how did Obi Wan know exactly what the hell Anakin was up to when he only saw the aftermath? we know he went to the temple, but you can bet that he did more than just kill the younglings. there were still plenty of jedi bodies in the temple.

QUOTE
People who like consistency in their storytelling, that's who.


Well, first off- Sidious tried to escape, then Yoda gave him a run for his money once the fight got underway.

"hes as wise as master yoda, and as powerful as master windu". how does yoda 'losing' to sidious make him any weaker than Mace, who has already been set up as a kick ass jedi anyway? where does it state that the best lightsabre fighter=most powerful Jedi? and these are supposed to be fights between living beings, where any number of factors can alter the tide/outcome of a fight.

for example, what do you think Yodas chances would have been once the clones started showing up?

QUOTE
There's always someone...


what, who stands their ground? I know, annoying isnt it tongue.gif

This post has been edited by jariten: 20 May 2005 - 12:01 PM

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