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Your Nitpicks About Episode III *SPOILERS* list 'um, j0!

#31 User is offline   Deleted Scene Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (jariten)
but why did it make no sense?! WHY?!! taking what we know about Qui Gon from ep 2 and what then happens in ep4, where is the confusion?


Okay, connect QGJ from ep2 to what we know in ep4 without using fandom knowledge of SW.

QUOTE
and which we was getting a kicking in. whats the point in sticking around just to die?


Grievous is trained in the Jedi arts and has four freaking arms that can spin around at lighting fast speeds, which would be like fighting four crack-addicted Yoda's trying to take your money. GG also collects the sabres from the Jedi he's killed and since the Clone Wars cartoon is canon, he had no problem fighting four at a time, so there was no reason for him to run from one or two in the film. He was a chicken-shit cyborg and no amount of fanboy/girl defending on your part will change that.

QUOTE
yes but my point was, how did Obi Wan know exactly what the hell Anakin was up to when he only saw the aftermath? we know he went to the temple, but you can bet that he did more than just kill the younglings. there were still plenty of jedi bodies in the temple.


And my point was that OWK says in ep4 that Anakin helped the Empire destroy the Jedi Knights, yet we only see Anakin killing the Younglings. It seems that the Knights were taken down by Order 66. GL does not show Anakin killing a fully grown Knight, only kids.

QUOTE
Well, first off- Sidious tried to escape, then Yoda gave him a run for his money once the fight got underway.


And Yoda got his ass kicked in the process.

QUOTE
"hes as wise as master yoda, and as powerful as master windu". how does yoda 'losing' to sidious make him any weaker than Mace, who has already been set up as a kick ass jedi anyway? where does it state that the best lightsabre fighter=most powerful Jedi? and these are supposed to be fights between living beings, where any number of factors can alter the tide/outcome of a fight.


My point was that Mace had Palpatine defeated until Anakin interferred. Yoda on the other hand got his ass completely handed to him and ran away. So my question was, who's more powerful, Mace or Yoda? You're the one who said "who cares?"

QUOTE
for example, what do you think Yodas chances would have been once the clones started showing up?


I guess you didn't see the film. Yoda not only took down the two clones who tried to assassinate him, but a whole bunch more when he and OWK were entering the Jedi temple.

QUOTE
what, who stands their ground? I know, annoying isnt it  tongue.gif


No. There's always someone...who thinks the their posts are logical and sensible, but in effect are completely nonsensical.
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#32 User is offline   jariten Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:00 PM

QUOTE
No. There's always someone...who thinks the their posts are logical and sensible, but in effect are completely nonsensical.


biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Okay, connect QGJ from ep2 to what we know in ep4 without using fandom knowledge of SW.


ok...
so we hear Quis voice in ep2, so we know that, even though hes dead, hes still kicking around somewhere.
In RotS, Yoda tells Obi that hes contacted Qui Gon, and from Qui Gon hes learnt how to join the force or whatever (i cant remember the exact dialogue, ive only seen RotS once so far)
He will teach Obi, who, while watching out for Luke, trains himself with this new technique (again, thats dialogue from RotS)
In ANH, hes learnt it, bless 'im. Which explains why Anakin didnt know where the hell he went after he cut him down, and also explains why he doesnt disappear.

I cant believe I had to explain that.

About Grivious, my point was that when you're getting a kicking and are clearly going to get beaten (as he was against Obi Wan) you run and live to fight another day. Obi had already cut two of his hands off! what would you do? doesnt it say more about Obis skill as a Jedi then G.s fighting ability? and the clone wars is EU.

QUOTE
And my point was that OWK says in ep4 that Anakin helped the Empire destroy the Jedi Knights, yet we only see Anakin killing the Younglings. It seems that the Knights were taken down by Order 66. GL does not show Anakin killing a fully grown Knight, only kids.


Are you ignoring my posts on purpose?! we only see him killing the younglings, but we dont know what else he did. Its highly unlikely that thats all he did in any case. and again i'll say it- Obi saw all the dead Jedi in the temple, and he knew that the younglings had been killed by a lightsabre, so its only logical to assume that any number of the others went the same way.

again- obi was not there at the time.

QUOTE
And Yoda got his ass kicked in the process.


QUOTE
My point was that Mace had Palpatine defeated until Anakin interferred. Yoda on the other hand got his ass completely handed to him and ran away


dont exaggerate...like I said, it was a tough fight whoch Yoda chose to flee and preserve the jedi rather than stay and risk death. against a lot of clones- no problem. against a lot of clones and sidious- your chance of death increases exponentially.

btw, I get the feeling we're having the same argument across two different threads...?!
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#33 User is offline   Deleted Scene Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:40 PM

QUOTE (jariten)
so we hear Quis voice in ep2, so we know that, even though hes dead, hes still kicking around somewhere.
In RotS, Yoda tells Obi that hes contacted Qui Gon, and from Qui Gon hes learnt how to join the force or whatever (i cant remember the exact dialogue, ive only seen RotS once so far)
He will teach Obi, who, while watching out for Luke, trains himself with this new technique (again, thats dialogue from RotS)
In ANH, hes learnt it, bless 'im. Which explains why Anakin didnt know where the hell he went after he cut him down, and also explains why he doesnt disappear.


Most of what you said there is completely wrong. Yoda never tells OWK that QKJ learned to join the force. All he says is that he (Yoda) has training for Obi on Tatooine to be done by his old master. That's it. All that dialogue you've quoted from RotS is made up. It does not exist onscreen.

QUOTE
I cant believe I had to explain that.


All you did was make a whole bunch of crap up.

QUOTE
About Grivious, my point was that when you're getting a kicking and are clearly going to get beaten (as he was against Obi Wan) you run and live to fight another day. Obi had already cut two of his hands off! what would you do? doesnt it say more about Obis skill as a Jedi then G.s fighting ability?


He didn't just run after he got his hands cut-off, he ran the first time he faced Obi and Anakin, then again later when Obi was by himself. It would be one thing to see him run to save his life, but he ran for anything. Grievous was a bum in the film.

QUOTE
and the clone wars is EU.


I could've sworn the CW toon is canon, but I guess I'm mistaken.

QUOTE
Are you ignoring my posts on purpose?! we only see him killing the younglings, but we dont know what else he did. Its highly unlikely that thats all he did in any case. and again i'll say it- Obi saw all the dead Jedi in the temple, and he knew that the younglings had been killed by a lightsabre, so its only logical to assume that any number of the others went the same way.

again- obi was not there at the time.


Doesn't matter. Obi-Wan knew about Order 66 and how Jedi from all around the galaxy were taken out by the clone troopers. Even though GL hinted at there being more Jedi that weren't killed (with Obi and Yoda changing the signal warning all Jedi to stay away), it doesn't take away from the fact that Anakin is not shown killing any Jedi Knights, only younglings.

QUOTE
dont exaggerate...like I said, it was a tough fight whoch Yoda chose to flee and preserve the jedi rather than stay and risk death. against a lot of clones- no problem. against a lot of clones and sidious- your chance of death increases exponentially.


You're making excuses now. Yoda got his ass kicked and ran away before the clones showed up. The troopers only came when Palp wanted to find Yoda who was hiding in a crawlspace. The clones never interferred in the Yoda/Palp fight.

QUOTE
btw, I get the feeling we're having the same argument across two different threads...?!


We are and it's annoying.
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#34 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE
You're making excuses now. Yoda got his ass kicked and ran away before the clones showed up. The troopers only came when Palp wanted to find Yoda who was hiding in a crawlspace. The clones never interferred in the Yoda/Palp fight.


I am starting to understand why Yoda had to leave after being defeated by the Emporer. I feel that it was because, it is honorable to back down when defeated in a lightsaber duel, and to come back, would be redundant and dishonorable to yourself, and the Jedi. Plus, Yoda had other things to attend to, and only HE could attend to such things. You can't really carry out a mission when you're dead. Yoda knew this.
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#35 User is offline   Sauron Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 04:36 PM

Sadly and stupidly watching The Clone Wars cartoon is really pretty essential to watching the film:

Most obvious it shows how Palpatine got kidnapped.

To the one who keeps saying look at the cartoon Grievous kicked butt!!! 4 Jedis at a time, yes but did you see the episode where Dooku is training him and specifically tells him only to fight the Jedi when he has the element of surprise and INTIMIDATION on his side. Otherwise he should FLEE!!! Palpatine tells him two seconds later that this is wise advice.

A few other reasons why the Clone Wars should be seen....

Mace Windu CRUSHES the stomach of Grievous at the end, which I can only assume is the reason he is coughing like he's a chain smoker.

...also there is the not so subtle moment when Anakin & Padme conceive Luke & Leia....or am I reading too much into that?

From the illustrated screenplay I read they cut out several really stupid sounding scenes: Qui Gon talking to Yoda and also digisuing Yoda as a baby to sneak into the Jedi Temple, AND also the League of 20 stupidty, which were systems that were against Palpatine still in power and was supposedly the origins on the Rebellion, the senators including Bail Organa & Mon Montha (and also the chick who posed in Playboy I think)
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#36 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 04:54 PM

here's a nitpick. Did anyone else think it was stupid for Obi-wan to leave the scene, approach his ship, and cover his head with his cloak before climbing into the cockpit? just a nitpick, how could he fly better with his head covered?

Biggest opening ever, gang. At least we were together on that. smile.gif
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#37 User is offline   Private Zod Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Sauron @ May 20 2005, 04:36 PM)
Sadly and stupidly watching The Clone Wars cartoon is really pretty essential to watching the film:

Most obvious it shows how Palpatine got kidnapped.

To the one who keeps saying look at the cartoon Grievous kicked butt!!! 4 Jedis at a time, yes but did you see the episode where Dooku is training him and specifically tells him only to fight the Jedi when he has the element of surprise and INTIMIDATION on his side. Otherwise he should FLEE!!! Palpatine tells him two seconds later that this is wise advice.

A few other reasons why the Clone Wars should be seen....

Mace Windu CRUSHES the stomach of Grievous at the end, which I can only assume is the reason he is coughing like he's a chain smoker.

...also there is the not so subtle moment when Anakin & Padme conceive Luke & Leia....or am I reading too much into that?

From the illustrated screenplay I read they cut out several really stupid sounding scenes: Qui Gon talking to Yoda and also digisuing Yoda as a baby to sneak into the Jedi Temple, AND also the League of 20 stupidty, which were systems that were against Palpatine still in power and was supposedly the origins on the Rebellion, the senators including Bail Organa & Mon Montha (and also the chick who posed in Playboy I think)


First off, I greatly enjoyed the film. I think alot of people on this board have felt so burnt by the previous 2 films (rightly so) that they will refuse to give any type of credit to this film. I enjoyed it and by the sound of teh 500 people in teh theater, they did as well.

I agree with this post, the cartoon and comics and novels ahd a lot of backstory leading up to the film. The arguement could be made that that should have comprised Ep 2 instead of being done in other mediums, but what the heck.

The arguement that Anakin only killed teh younglings did not actually help Palpatine kill teh other Knights is absurd since you are arguing semantics. Instead of showing scene after scene of Anakin killing Jedi they focused on one chilling scene where he wipes out the kids. You assume since there were bodes of Jedi all over teh place after Yoda and Obi-wan walk through that he knocked off a few others as well.
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#38 User is offline   Kirby Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:10 PM

I have to agree with Jariten on QGJ.

QUOTE
Most of what you said there is completely wrong. Yoda never tells OWK that QKJ learned to join the force. All he says is that he (Yoda) has training for Obi on Tatooine to be done by his old master. That's it. All that dialogue you've quoted from RotS is made up. It does not exist onscreen.
DS

Yoda also said he learned how to contact him through the force.

QUOTE
Doesn't matter. Obi-Wan knew about Order 66 and how Jedi from all around the galaxy were taken out by the clone troopers. Even though GL hinted at there being more Jedi that weren't killed (with Obi and Yoda changing the signal warning all Jedi to stay away), it doesn't take away from the fact that Anakin is not shown killing any Jedi Knights, only younglings.
DS

You forget that those younglings had babysiters/masters of their own. Jedis might be at war but they would at least leave SOME knights to hold the fort, especialy after having it be attacked by the Trade Federation.

This post has been edited by Kirby: 20 May 2005 - 05:11 PM

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#39 User is offline   Deleted Scene Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE (Private Zod)
The arguement that Anakin only killed teh younglings did not actually help Palpatine kill teh other Knights is absurd since you are arguing semantics.  Instead of showing scene after scene of Anakin killing Jedi they focused on one chilling scene where he wipes out the kids.  You assume since there were bodes of Jedi all over teh place after Yoda and Obi-wan walk through that he knocked off a few others as well.


It's not absurd nor is it semantics. With only a vague crappy reference to other Jedi being out there, there is no shred of evidence that Anakin helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. Unless you forgot, most of them got wiped out in AotC on Geonosis and the ones that remained were taken out by Order 66. Maybe post-ROTS Anakin may help take out a few, but in now way does he help the Empire take them all out which was always implied. In effect, the clone troopers took out the Jedi, not Anakin.

QUOTE (Kirby)
Yoda also said he learned how to contact him through the force.


And my point still remains, we don't see that scene, only the aftermath of it which is stupid for anyone who doesn't follow fandom.

QUOTE
You forget that those younglings had babysiters/masters of their own. Jedis might be at war but they would at least leave SOME knights to hold the fort, especialy after having it be attacked by the Trade Federation.


If Anakin took out any Knights, they should've shown it. Plain and simple. The only Knights we saw killed were by the troopers, which sucks.

This post has been edited by Deleted Scene: 20 May 2005 - 05:21 PM

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#40 User is offline   A Link to the Past Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:15 PM

Consider this:

Palpatine was merely fending Mace off until Anakin arrived, so that Anakin would betray the Jedi Order.
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#41 User is offline   Sauron Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:20 PM

Consider this as well...

Palpatine kicks the crap out of all of them including Mace. Then Palpatine is tanding there among 4 dead Jedis and Anakin see this, what exaclty would Palpatine say there???

Anakin most likely attacks Palpatine, (to what end?) - Palpatine wanted a new apprentice and he wanted Anakin to be it. He knew the way to get him was to keep bringing up Padme and her possible death.

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 06:24 PM

I don't think Palpatine would be one to risk his own death. He's greedy like that.

But anyway, I personally believe the killing of Mace did factor into Anakin's decision, regardless of the fact that his main reason was for Padme.
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#43 User is offline   Deleted Scene Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:54 PM

Did anyone notice that the Wookies did the Tarzan yell?
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#44 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:53 PM

1. The security hologram. So the intimate conversation between Palpatine and Anakin was on tape? Couldn't someone have noticed it before and told somebody that Anakin had just joined the darkside? Shouldn't Palpatine have checked for cameras before telling Anakin he was the Dark Lord?

2. The Sidious/Plagueis plan. Ok. If you're on the dark side, the only person you care about is yourself. Its all about you, baby. The only way you become a master is if you're knock your own master off, you always gotta be looking over your shoulder, but if you're the biggest badass in the valley, you have nothing to worry about. Ok, so you're a Dark Lord of the Sith, abeit in hiding. Why would you use your knowledge of the Force to create a Jedi (Anakin) more powerful than yourself. If he goes darkside, he's ultimately going to knock you off. Anakin's maiming was in the best interest of Palpatine, but what if he won his duel with OWK? Then Palps would be fucked. I just don't see what the hell Plagueis was thinking. Yeah, conceiving Anakin the super-jedi was in the best interest of the Sith, but sith lords don't let themselves get knocked off for the best interest of the sith. they only care about themselves.

3. Plagueis is a stupid name, like Greivous, Dooku, and Shmi.

4. I guarentee you that 10 years from now, my kids are going to be playing with X-Wings and TIE fighters, not whatever fucked up hybrids we saw in the opening battle. They were buck UGLY.

5. Mace Windu's Jedi posse die off immediately in the most retarded fashion humanly possible. They don't even put up a fight. I thought they were masters.

6. Sidious was laughable at different points.

7. Why didn't the burst droids just blow up and destroy OWK's fighter? Bomb droids would be much more effective than Bust Droids or whatever the fuck they're called.

8. Anakin is a really shitty pilot. He says it himself (paraphrased) "That was a bad move" OWK gives him tactical advice he promptly ignored FOR THE WORST.

9. If i were commander of the battleship i would have removed the atmosphere from the hangar. Droids don't need atmosphere. Jedi's do.

10. Why didn't the battle droids just shoot R2-D2?

11. Why were there so many occasions of battle droids telling OWK and Anakin to freeze. If it was all part of Sidious' plan, as you gushers say, then why didn't Anakin and Obi-Wan get a clue.

12. The whole order 66 thing. In the real world. Real soldiers have a ton of jokes about combat and their equipment and how their technology loves to fuck up on them at the worst possible moment. I cannot believe, for one moment, that star wars soldiers didn't have jokes about battle droids, saying stuff like "always make your droids take point, because you never know who's controlling their command ship" or something like that. Any rational defense department would have legitimate questions about who makes their weapons and/or clone troopers. If you think that every single part of a Predator or Global Hawk was making in the USA you're kidding. But we can all be sure that then Pentagon made pretty damn sure that some other country won't be able to hack one of our drones and get it to knock of some of our own soldiers. "Evil will triumph because good is dumb"

Edit: because i can't type for shit.

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 20 May 2005 - 10:55 PM

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#45 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Deleted Scene @ May 20 2005, 09:54 PM)
Did anyone notice that the Wookies did the Tarzan yell?

Thank You, Deleted Scene. I'd deleted that from my short list.
But I groaned aloud at the occurance.
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