[Devout Catalyst]

I don't buy that becasue she abandons her children either way. Going by the arguement Even if she does live, but dies when Leia is 3 or 4, doesn't that make her unkind as well? Afterall she lets Luke be taken away from her at childbirth to live on some desolute (and unsafe) farm in the middle of nowhere, while herself living with Liea somewhere else, and then dieing when Leia is 3-4 (or whatever age), thus abandoing her at a very impressionable age in childhood.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not her dying in and of itself that I object to. It's her willing herself to die. If she were murdered, that would be different. Presumably she wouldn't deliberately submit to that. Well, a kind person wouldn't, anyway.

It is one thing to give children up for adoption, especially to save their lives; it is quite another to die just after they're born, on purpose.

[Veer]

I have also changed RETURN OF THE JEDI, so there is no need to say it is inconsistant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, not to diss you, I'm sure your work is very good, but Lucas could also go back and change the Luke-Leia scene in ROTJ, and voila, no contradiction!

[StarWarsIsUs]

It does indeed sound selfish and stupid, and very unkind for Padme to will herself to die. Especially when she knows she just gave birth to live twins that will need their mother. If she was a kind person, she would will herself to LIVE, even when she didn't want to, for the fact that her children will someday need help in defeating their father, and the fact that her children will need HER.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""Well, not to diss you, I'm sure your work is very good, but Lucas could also go back and change the Luke-Leia scene in ROTJ, and voila, no contradiction!""

Thanks, Veer. Though we know that Lucas will not do this. If he ever does, which he will not, I will delete all my work in honor of his rewakening to sanity. But he will never do this. Never. Nope. Thanks for the compliment.

[Lord Aquaman]

An oversight or two is forgivable but not every single f**king time. Am I wrong to find a certain amount of perverse pleasure in thrashing Georges stupid storyline?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that's perfectly fine. We all draw joy from it.

[looktothesky]

so anyway...


Apprently padme dies giving birth to the incestuous twins...

this really fucks up ROTJ.

luke: do you remember much about your mother?
leia: she died when i was very young.
luke: what do you remember most about her.
leia: she was beautiful, and yet always... a little sad.
luke: really?
leia: nope... she died giving birth to me.



great work again lucarse!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I know I never post in this forum but...
...that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

...I'm not gonna see this movie.

[StarWarsIsUs]

See the movie to draw your own personal opinion, at least.

[barend]

I brought up a good damned point and no one is quoting me. Instead, you are all going off on something that has already been argued.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh, sorry... (time zone thing, i was asleep), but here you go...

It is possible that Leia maybe didn't know what she was talking about, and is describing something from scattered, vague dreams she had as a child.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure, why not...

Luke: do you remember your real mother?
Leia: yes, she was stunning... 8 feet tall, with chocolate milk in left breast and strawberry in the right, she had hex vision and could fly!!!


(would make that, "are you an angel" line from TPM tie in a lot better...)

[J m HofMarN]

Ok, you gushers are insane. Say it with me

THE FORCE CANNOT FIX EVERY DAMNED PLOT HOLE!

Now, with that established. Had these prequels been written by a sensible fellow, such as me (and I have written my own versions) ep1 would have had adult anakin and adult Padme meeting and doing adult things. Ep 2 would have had her giving birth and the babies being split up so she could care for Leia for a while. ep3 should have seen her meeting Anakin again and him killing her.

Padme DOES NOT FUCKING DIE OF NO DAMN BROKEN HEART!

You think that's the kind of genes that Leia got? FUCK!

"Oh no. Han called me a stuck up princess. My heart is broken. Hold me whilst I do die."

Bullshit. Luke and Leia had a better mother than that! Her creepy ass boyfriend who she DAMNED WELL KNOWS likes to kill people for a hobby, goes and kills some people, and she feels the need to die?

Why the fuck didnt she get around to it in ep2 and save us some more shitty romance scenes.

"I killed them all. Not just the men. But the puppies and the kitties. And their goldfish Goldie."

"Oh Anakin. You're breaking my heart. Blargh I am dead."

[StarWarsIsUs]

*falls over laughing so hard that he pisses his pants* :d:d:d:d:d BAREND, you comic!!!!

[BinarySunset]

It's not her dying in and of itself that I object to. It's her willing herself to die...
It is one thing to give children up for adoption, especially to save their lives; it is quite another to die just after they're born, on purpose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Devout Catalyst, have you never seen movies, or tv shows, or read books that talk about people "losing the will to live"? I'm hoping you are a real "youngling" or perhaps English is not your first language because it's boggling my mind that you are misinterpreting "losing the will to live" as "willing [one]self to die".

THAT IS NOT WHAT THAT MEANS IN MEDICAL TERMS.

And not just Devout Catalyst, but to everyone who seems to be misunderstanding what the term means (SWIU, I'm shocked, but you're still cool ), here's the deal:

People "lose the will to live" each and everyday on this planet in this solar system in this galaxy. It is not that they "will themselves to die", it is more that the natural instinct to live and survive is gone, usually due to some kind of emotional heartbreak or feeling of no longer "mattering" to anyone - there are also other extreme reasons.

It is medically documented that quite often widows and widowers die shortly after their spouse and they seemingly have nothing wrong with them. No "natural causes" can be attributed to the death, it's an overwhelmingly emotional response to unbearable grief and loss. Their spirit (if you will) gives up and they die... in their sleep usually, but that's an aside.

Another typical example is an old person who has outlived all their family and friends and feels they "have no one left". They are old, yes, but they are reasonably healthy yet they die because they no longer feel a sense of "wanting to be alive".

There are many of other examples of this, but these are the most common.

Having said all that, I agree with all of you who have mentioned that having the twins (or even 1 child) should have given Padme something/someone for which to live. But as we know, George is not at all capable of writing emotions and he certainly would is NOT good at writing about the emotions of a woman: who is force-choked by her husband, the father of her baby; and then [she] gives birth under duress.

IMO, he should not have tried to tackle it. The results are what we saw on screen.

[Devout Catalyst]

Devout Catalyst, have you never seen movies, or tv shows, or read books that talk about people "losing the will to live"? I'm hoping you are a real "youngling" or perhaps English is not your first language because it's boggling my mind that you are misinterpreting "losing the will to live" as "willing [one]self to die".

THAT IS NOT WHAT THAT MEANS IN MEDICAL TERMS.

Yes, I KNOW. Contrary to your expectations, I am not stupid. I know all about the medical studies that suggest (yes, merely SUGGEST, not definitively PROVE) that widows/widowers die early, etc.

All I'm saying is that people just don't suddenly die when they lose the will to live. Based on what I'm hearing about ROTS, Padmé just up and dies immediately after childbirth. I'm sorry, that just seems stupid to me. As I've already explained at length, I don't consider death in childbirth acceptable in the SW universe, at least not when medical droids and whatever other technology they have are present. So that leaves Padmé dying of grief. It just does not happen that suddenly. Maybe years and years of extensive psychological trauma can shave some time off of someone's lifespan, but they don't just drop dead of "grief." Therefore, I can only conclude that she somehow willed herself to die, using her latent Force powers or something.

If you can find me one thoroughly documented incident of someone literally keeling over dead because of "grief," I'll be more than happy to change my opinion to accomodate you.

[BinarySunset]

First and foremost, Devout, you do not have to change your opinion to accomodate me, or anyone else. It is, after all, your opinion to which you are entitled.

Based on what I'm hearing about ROTS, Padmé just up and dies immediately after childbirth.

From what you wrote, you haven't yet seen the movie, so why get all upset about what you've only "heard" or read? Once you see it (with an open mind, I hope), you will see for yourself that Padme doesn't "just up and die". There is a chain of events - not necessarily well-written, but...

All I'm saying is that people just don't suddenly die when they lose the will to live.

So I guess you know all the people who have ever lived, throughout the history of the world, and how they did or didn't die. Good for you. Then you don't need me to find "one thoroughly documented incident of someone literally keeling over dead because of 'grief'", because you already know that there has never, ever been even one in the entire history of mankind, right. So what are you so upset about?

As for what is or isn't acceptable in the SW universe - welcome to the Boards... where we bitch and moan, debate and rebutt, about what we think should or shouldn't happen in a universe that doesn't really exist. And with that in mind, one should not expect "real life" to always fit perfectly into this fictional universe, no matter how much we may love it.

So... take a deep breath, let it out, and go see the movie.

[Devout Catalyst]

From what you wrote, you haven't yet seen the movie, so why get all upset about what you've only "heard" or read? Once you see it (with an open mind, I hope), you will see for yourself that Padme doesn't "just up and die". There is a chain of events - not necessarily well-written, but...

Granted, I am jumping to conclusions. Maybe I will change my opinion after I have seen the movie...if I see the movie.

But I am guessing that I won't be too surprised, and that to me it will seem to me more or less like Padmé up and dying. Hey, I saw AOTC, and people defended Shmi's death scene. Didn't make it any less ridiculous for me.

So I guess you know all the people who have ever lived, throughout the history of the world, and how they did or didn't die. Good for you. Then you don't need me to find "one thoroughly documented incident of someone literally keeling over dead because of 'grief'", because you already know that there has never, ever been even one in the entire history of mankind, right. So what are you so upset about?

This is just silly. I don't need to have known every single person in history to be suspicious of certain claims. I don't know absolutely, positively, 100%-for-sure that no one has ever flown of their own accord without the aid of aviation devices, that no one has ever time-traveled, that no one has ever walked through walls. But I can be pretty damned skeptical of claims like these, and rightfully so.

So, yeah, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask for proof of some far-fetched claim. Maybe you are willing to accept anything anyone tells you at face value. I'm not. And someone keeling over dead because of grief just seems ridiculous to me.

[J m HofMarN]

Padme is supposed to be a strong willed and brave and principaled character like her daughter. She is portrayed wrong in the PT.

The character of Padme Amidala we see in the PT WOULD conseivably lose the will to live just because Annie spurned her and turned (more) evil.

The character we all know was the mother of Luke and Leia would NEVER do that. How can you even figure that crap? The real Amidala would have kicked Anakin's crack ass for killing the sand people. The real Amidala would have also had clear morals (not "I'll shoot at the trade federation a lot but I wont endorse an army") And she NEVER would have given up the will to live once she gave birth. That's total bull shit. Noone would do that. Your lover betrays you and all you have left of him are two kids so rather than hanging on to them you just decide to fucking die? What kind of wuss is this chick? She knew Anakin was a jerk ass but shes apparently so shocked when he proves to be a jerk ass that she loses the will to live and take care of two non-jerk ass kids? Bullshit.