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"Only the Dark Side Deals in Absolutes"

#16 User is offline   Primetime Icon

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:30 AM

Yes, the biggest problem here is that the line reminds us that we are watching a movie in the year 2005 and that our country is "divided."

We should also watch closely for how Palpatine's rise to power is portrayed. It seems as though he gets more and more power in the name of "security" and "democracy." Sound familiar? Again, is Lucas trying to say something?

This post has been edited by Primetime: 19 May 2005 - 09:34 AM

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#17 User is offline   SouthernRonin Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:16 AM

QUOTE (StarWarsIsUs @ May 19 2005, 08:57 AM)
Greed, and greed alone, is what this universe was made of. Don't you realize, that if there is a god, he would be evil? There is no other explanation for our sufferings. He lowers us down to where we need to be, to be less powerful than him. He gets off on seeing us suffer. And I believe this fully. GREED! POWER! Those are things nobody can deny.



Wow.

I mean, wow.

Or rather, eesh.
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#18 User is offline   SouthernRonin Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE (Primetime @ May 19 2005, 09:30 AM)
We should also watch closely for how Palpatine's rise to power is portrayed.  It seems as though he gets more and more power in the name of "security" and "democracy."  Sound familiar?  Again, is Lucas trying to say something?



But if you think back to all the theories that swirled around the prequels even as far back as the early nineties, that was still what was theorized about Palpatine's rise to power. He wormed power away from the Senate and converted the Republic to an Empire.

I think some lines (like Anakin saying "You are with me or against me") are certainly little hits on Bush - as an artist, I don't think Lucas could possibly reconcile that kind of attitude. Not sure I can every day of the week either, but...

Anyway, I want to say this is just a matter of life imitating art. If this should serve as a warning against anyone starting to amass power in large quantities, well, so much the better.
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#19 User is offline   Failureboy2 Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 03:16 PM

It's not quite worded like that anyway:

Anakin: "You're either with me, or you're my enemy."
Obiwan:"Only the Sith deal in absolutes."

So it's not as distracting as I thought it would be.

The scene that made me the most uncomfortable was actually one with Padme, she's sitting on the couch with Anakin and it's the whole, "What if we're on the wrong side - maybe this war is a failure to communicate" scene. I'm sorry? Suddenly we're supposed to wonder if the Trade Federation - and the SITH - are misunderstood groups that might not be so evil after all? I felt like slapping her. This is the army that took over your planet and enslaved Sio Bibble, for christ's sake!

sick.gif
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#20 User is offline   Lord Melkor Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 04:42 PM

But Failureboy2, Republic under leadership of Palpatine evolved into totalitarian Empire!
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#21 User is offline   HeckHouse Icon

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:41 PM

Even ignoring the political implications of that line, it is a tad ridiculous in context of the movie. The Jedi crawl in absolutes. You can't fear, can't love, can't be angry, etc.

With that in mind, it made the line stand out even more as a political stab, because it is extremely hypocritical.

This post has been edited by HeckHouse: 21 May 2005 - 08:41 PM

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#22 User is offline   DarthTherion Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 12:52 PM

It's rather funny that "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is itself an absolute statement. It's even funnier that Obi-wan decalres, "The Emperor is evil!" less than five minutes later. Then suddenly, Anakin becomes a moral relativist: "From my point of view...."

Those lines were pretty sloppy, and someone should have caught those problems.

However, I must say I loved the idea of presenting the Sith as a self-centered group that believes themselves "right" and everyone else "wrong." The commentary on modern day politics (and the ridiculous foreign policy of certain countries....) is obvious. I only wish more was done with this in the film.

What about the line, "This is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"? I found that very powerful.

Oh, and I think that Obi-wan's words should be taken as something said by a heartbroken individual in the heat of the moment, not necessarily clearly thought-out. I certainly wouldn't accept the "only a sith..." line as Jedi doctrine of any kind. As a matter of fact, it may well indicate Obi-wan's blindness to the facts -- it really does appear that the Jedi are the ones who deal in absolutes.
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#23 User is offline   A Link to the Past Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:35 PM

I like the idea of no absolute good or no absolute evil. There is a potential good in a Sith, POTENTIAL, and a potential evil in a Jedi. Anakin was both - Throughout his life as Anakin, the potential evil was all over, while when he was Darth Vader, there was a potential good in him as well. It's just like Disgaea - Laharl believed himself to be evil but was actually good, while Vulcanus believed himself to be good, but was actually evil.
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#24 User is offline   HeckHouse Icon

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 09:02 PM

Something I found interesting about ROTS was just how flawed Lucas made the characters. There's so much dialog in the movie that seems like a contridiction, or just doesn't make sense. But, when you really look at the characters, you can kinda justify it, because they're very human.
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