[StarWarsIsUs]

Many say that The Empire Strikes Back, was the best movie in the OT. I disagree with this, because I think A New Hope was way better than the other two. BUT, I still love ESB for what it is. This is a thread where you can explain why you like the movie so much, and some of the qualities that stood out for you as classic.

Below, is a list of personal reasons why I think ESB is a great movie:

* It introduced the 'Imperial March' theme.

* The Battle of Hoth was awesome. I liked seeing the AT-STs and snow speeders in action. What I really liked, was the fact that it all took place in a snowy setting. I like winter, and I like snow.

* Introduction of Boba Fett. I don't love this character, but I thought he was kinda cool for a bounty hunter.

* Millenium Falcon action. We get to see more of the M.F. in battle, and the part with the asteroid field, and landing inside of the giant worm, were both awesome happenings in the story.

* Cloud City. I love the way it looks, especially in the Special Edition Version. (NOTE: I have nothing against SE ESB , it's just SE ANH that I was upset about.)

* Yoda. I love the Dagabah setting, with all the swamps, trees, reptiles, etc. And I love the character of Yoda. He really did add to the story. This goes along with the interesting training scenes, such as Luke meditating upside down with Yoda on his feet, and Yoda making the X-Wing rise from the swamp by the power of the force.

* The final lightsaber duel between Luke & Vader. This also leads to Luke getting his hand chopped off, and finding out Vader is really his father.

This post has been edited by StarWarsIsUs: 14 May 2005 - 12:08 AM

[Just your average movie goer]

I'll second what you've said above. I really like both The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars fairly equally, but for different reasons.

Star Wars has one distinct advantage though in that it doesn't require Return of the Jedi to finish off its story. The Empire Strikes Back does however and although this is no fault of its own, it is unfortunate. In order to see the cliffhanger at the end of the movie resolved, we have to suffer through Jabba, slapstick stupidity, the ewoks and Montgomery Burns (a.k.a. the Emperor).

However, in its own right, The Empire Strikes Back is a fine movie. And apart from the all the spectacular scenes you have mentioned above, I really admire the way this movie expanded the Star Wars universe. It felt infinitely larger in this movie than in any other movie. One of the things I loved about the cloud city sequence is that it showed that there WERE other people in the galaxy besides the Empire and the Rebellion, something that Return of the Jedi undid (along with a lot of other great things it undid).

I could go through all the scenes I loved but I think that'd be a bit redundant as I loved the whole movie. I also like how grown-up this film is. I've said before that like the first Star Wars, this film grows up with you, whereas Return of the Jedi doesn't. What I mean by this is that you can be an adult AND you can watch The Empire Strikes Back.
(But you can't be an adult and watch teddy bears wave sticks and go "Yub! Yub!" for instance).

I also enjoy the emotional depth of this film. You get some very strong dramatic moments. Watch the scene with Han, Leia and Chewie in the detention cell when Lando comes in and they discover that they're being used as bait to lure Luke into a trap. This is good stuff. And nothing beats the stormtroopers tearing Han away from Leia in the freezing chamber for eliciting an emotional response from the audience.

Another point I'd like to make is that this is the best of all the Star Wars movies for Darth Vader. Here, he is the catalyst of all the action, with the entire Imperial fleet at his command. He is neither Tarkin's henchman or Palpatine's pet doggy. This is Vader at his best. And the scene where Vader uses the dark side of the force to launch that telekinisis attack on Luke is one of the most incredible scenes in the trilogy. It is touches like this that make the lightsabre duel in this movie the best of them all - by far.

[StarWarsIsUs]

However, in its own right, The Empire Strikes Back is a fine movie. And apart from the all the spectacular scenes you have mentioned above, I really admire the way this movie expanded the Star Wars universe.

Yes, it really took the story out into the deeps of outer space and took you to see new people. This is the main reason I like the S.E. ESB more than the original: Because it draws back and lets you see more buildings, people, and space vehicles zooming around, especially the cloud cars. I love those things.

...the cloud city sequence is that it showed that there WERE other people in the galaxy besides the Empire and the Rebellion, something that Return of the Jedi undid (along with a lot of other great things it undid).

Yeah. I liked Lando and his crew, and the people it showed walking around the city when Lando told them to evacuate.

And nothing beats the stormtroopers tearing Han away from Leia in the freezing chamber for eliciting an emotional response from the audience.

Yes, there is a lot of fine, quality emotion here in the storytelling. And I don't think George Lucas can rightfully take credit for the believability of this romance, because so many other people had a say in it. Lucas didn't care: but they did.

It is touches like this that make the lightsabre duel in this movie the best of them all - by far.

Yeah. In this movie, so much is explained. We get to see force powers as they were meant to be, and dueling as it was meant to be. I totally agree, JYAMG.

[Lord Aquaman]

Ironically, George Lucas did not originally like Ian McDiarmid being cast as the Emperor, the one time he probably should have put his foot down for the right reason.

I like how in ANH and ESB when Alec Guinness and Mark Hamill face off with Darth Vader we actually care about whether or not they'll survive. It's hard to get that feeling in movies, especially now.

[Private Zod]

I like how in ANH and ESB when Alec Guinness and Mark Hamill face off with Darth Vader we actually care about whether or not they'll survive. It's hard to get that feeling in movies, especially now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True considering we already know the outcome of all the duels. There are no surprises coming in Ep3.

That being said, as a kid around 7-8, when RotJ came out it was my favorite film of the series at the time and would be for a while. Luke being a jedi, the cool Scarlac Pitt fight, Luke beating Vader, etc was very apealing at that age. As I grew older, Empire replaced it as the better of the filsm in that it really expanded upon what ANH started. More interesting worlds, more detail into the characters, one of the greatest plot twists ever, and it ends on a down note. RotJ while still enjoyable tried to do too many things at once especially the last half of the movie when they had the land battle scene at Endor (like the Hoth scene), the space battle over Death Star 2 (like the space battle over Death Star 1 in ANH) and the lightsaber battle all going at once.

[CowboyCurtis]

I love ESB, and it is my favorite film, but it really is nothing without ANH. ROTJ really hurts it---ROTJ should've completely blown us away. ESB is only good because it sets up so much potential, and ROTJ fails to deliver. If ROTJ had been as good as ESB promised... we wouldn't say it was the best film of the series.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Yes, ROTJ did really weaken ESB. But if you watch ESB without the third installment in mind, it makes it even better. Someone should load the film on a computer, and then make an alternate ending to Empire Strikes Back, so that the OT could end there, at least.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Anymore reasons? I would like to see some more, from more people. Come on.

[ernesttomlinson]

Well, what about Han and Leia? It's not a love story for the ages but there's some nice little touches to their growing fondness for one another. "You do have your moments. Not many. But you do have them." And: "We'll soon be gone." "And then you're as good as gone."

[A Link to the Past]

Vader's Luke's father?!

Mark for spoilers, damnit!!

[Mnesymone]

It was a great film - personally not as good as Star Wars, but I loved it nevertheless. As far as personal loves with it - "Imperial March.", Vader and Luke duel (obvious), The Emperor, the cave and the sunsets on Bespin. Sure it stretches the suspension of disbelief a bit, sure it picks up a slight episodic feel between Hoth and Bespin with the divergent storylines but I still love it. And would very much like an imperishable DVD version to be released of the visually remastered 1995 edition.

[Madam Corvax]

I have seen it again recently and still the film retains a lot of magic for me. This time I was not watching for big moments - fights and chases and escapes, CGIs and ships, but for the quiet moments that somehow get to you into more subconscious level.

There were several scenes that I only now realised that were so great.

One of the greatest moments for me is when Leia at the request of Han swithes of Threepio...Honestly. I would love to repeat the little gesture of Han saying "Would you please switch off that jerk", many times during the whole trilogy...
And only then are they allowed to have this little conversation about where to go... the little exchange when they say:
"He is a gambler, a scoundrel... you'll like him"
"Thanks" she says, and smiles a little crooked smile...
is so natural that it could be carried out between any courting couple, is actually funny and ironic... in short does not give you twinges the SW dialogue usually does...

Another great scene that is very powerful is the scene when Lando invites Leia and Han to dinner and the door open and Vader is there. When he catches Han's blaster he says "We would be honoured if you would join us". To listen him say this still sendsshivers dowm my spine...And then Han says I am sorry, too, and takes Leia hand, steps in and the door hisses behind them... What were they talking about inside? What happened? We'll never know, and at least GL was not able to tamper with that like he tampered with Snow Beast... The mistery sytill holds good...

[Xombie]

Two points:

I agree that the ESB is the best of the series but it nonetheless has the stupidest scene of them all. The Space Worm is dumb on so many levels I can't even begin to count them all. It seriously detracts from a movie that is trying to be darker, richer, and more serious than its predecessor.

Lando is exactly the same character as Han: the charismatic rogue who seems to only be looking out for himself but actually has a moral compass beneath all the bluster. This flaw becomes more apparent in the third film when the character is given zero character development and ends up having exactly the same ultimate end of his character arc as Han (being the big hero by delivering a critical blow to the enemy during the final battle). This is just bad scripting.

[CowboyCurtis]

What if we edited out the Ewoks in ROTJ and edit in the Wookie battle from ROTS? Now that might be cool....

[BinarySunset]

For many years I had a "love/hate relationship" with ESB.

The love was because it's SW, after all. The hate was... well, I didn't really know until about 7 years ago (turns out it had nothing to do with the movie, so...)

Having gotten over all that, when I watch ESB now, I tend to watch the 1997 Special Edition. [I know, I know: Luke willingly dropped down the shaft after his duel with Vader so he should remain silent as he falls. I agree 1000%], so before anyone throws anything, IMO the '97 SE version allows me to enjoy the things I love about it.

Like:

- someone above mentioned it shows there are others in the galaxy - the SE version lets me see more of Cloud City (rather than white walls) when our heroes and heroine are making their escape, and more people (albeit CGI people) can be seen reacting to what's going on

- the Hoth Battle just seems more engaging to me in the '97 SE. I'm sure someone will let me know if any subtle things were added to it, but whatever the reason, I love watching the '97 SE.

- I also like some of the extra footage in scenes. Maybe not each and every time Vader boards his Executor or other Star Destroyer, but...

And, as Lord Aquaman has mentioned on another thread:

- the Emporer originally voiced by Clive Revill.

I don't care if the visual is an old woman with chimpanzee eyes superimposed, I like the original Emporer and felt that even if they used Ian McDiarmid for ROTJ, they could've at least used the same "thunderous voice".

As for the Space Worm: My brother and I have always gotten a kick out of that. I still chuckle after that whole scene.

So, having analyzed the film, myself, and life in general several years ago, I am now able to enjoy it much better than in the first 17 years of its existence. But I will always lurve how Luke looks in black in ROTJ