[Lord Aquaman]

How many of you out there feel that the transformation from Anakin to Vader could have been handled in one film - albeit a long one - as opposed to being dragged out across three?

[Primetime]

Absolutely right! We could have been spared the last two flicks . . . and we could have been spared getting to know the young Anakin.

[Just another wretched fan]

well, the events of ESB make Vader/Palpatine's seduction of Luke in ROTJ that much better and believable. The same to a lesser degree with Leia/Han's relationship.

Ideally, a similar situation would happen in one movie, and anakin has the entire period between films to brood on the dark side's offer. In the next film he falls at the climax.

Use the same technique for the Romance. He meets and flirts in epidsode 1 then the couple has time to brood on it so when you see them again in ep2 the audience can reasonally believe the feelings have gotten that much heavier.

lucas tried to do that and failed because no one believes that the 8 year old boy still had feelings 10 years later. its nonsensical.

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 06 May 2005 - 10:32 AM

[CowboyCurtis]

Agreed. I might go to ROTS with the thought that the first two didn't exist...

...but my GOD, the horribly acting I see in those trailers! Padme: "You're breaking my heart, Annie..."

GAH!!! I've never been so horrorified and amused by such terrible acting!!!

[StarWarsIsUs]

Natalie Portman even knows that she sucked in ROTS.

You COULD have fit it all into one film, but that would have been a pain in the ass. Plus the fact that ANH is called episode IV in the opening crawl.

[Magee]

The fact that Lucas DID do it in one movie, does not mean that it SHOULD have been done in one movie. The fact that he has indeed wasted 4 hours of screentime does not mean that he SHOULD have wasted 4 hours of screentime.

I always thought that the PT would follow the same arc as the OT.

EPISODE 1 BEING GOOD FOR GOOD GUYS
VICTORY AT YAVIN
SOME SORT OF VICTORY FOR ANAKIN IN A CLONE WAR BATTLE

EPISODE 2 BE BAD FOR GOOD GUYS
DEFEAT AT HOTH, SOLO FROZEN, LUKE BEATEN
THE FRUSTRATION AND TURN OF ANAKIN, THE WARS GO AGAINST THE JEDI, PALPATINES DECISION TO RETURN ORDER TO THE GALAXY

EPISODE 3 BE BITTERSWEET
VICTORY AT ENDOR, DEATH OF VADER AT HIS REDEMPTION
THE ANNIHALATION OF THE JEDI, THE BIRTH OF THE TWINS, AND THE BEGINNING OF THE REBELLION

I dont know something like that, something good. I know it is unrealistic to expect Lucas to make the trilogy the way I wanted it to be, but these movies are totally devoid of believable human emotion. I dont really give a shit if Anakin turns or not, at least Natalie wont have to hear him whine anymore.

[rangwe]

That's an interesting proposition, Lord Aquaman. You could definitely do the whole thing in one movie. It would require a lot of focus, however. Something I don't think Lucas has any more. You'd have to dispense with the grander picture of the Republic and focus entirely on Anakin's small part in what was going on at the time of his transformation. You'd have to set up the character of Anakin in the beginning of the film (whatever makes him good and whatever makes him evil), develop the conflict between the opposing traits in the middle of the film, and have the payoff/resolution (in this case, evil wins out) at the end. Everything else would have to serve to develop that internal Character dialogue so the audience could follow it.

The idea that one should show as much "stuff" as possible is just so much spectacle. Its fluff that distracts from the central plot (Vader's fall from grace). The problem is, there is no clear "grace" for Anakin to fall from. There's no obvious "flaw" that is his downfall. There's no "loss" for him that I can see. A lot of this has to do with all the subplots and "noise" going on around the central story. Some of it is quite promising but never gets enough development to be satisfying. The audience can't be distracted or theme won't develop naturally.

So, yes. Episode III would be all about Vader, ideally from his point of view (so we can emphasize with him) or Obi Wan's (or Padme, or R2D2's, whomever) point of view (so we can emphasize with the storyteller). There are so many things I'd leave out of episode III because they don't cut to the meat. Magee is right in that there should be clear plot choices.

I think the movies are just Lucas's way of working out his complexes with Star Wars. Three movies is an opportunity to develop a single character each time. I *liked* Qui-Gon. TPM should have been all about his story. Ben Kenobi is *cool*. AotC should have been all about him, without his master, with the awesome pressure of raising Anakin (hey, sometimes foster parents just screw up, regardless of intentions). And RotS should have just been about Anakin, finding himself unprepared for a confrontation with the dragon that is the collective shadow of mankind (no one can shoulder that burden).

Joseph Campbell talks about how sometimes the hero meets the dragon and is slain, annihilated into a million pieces, and it becomes his offspring's task to redeem him, or that the hero must pass through a resurrection process while in "the belly of the beast".

Why does it have to be a "choice"? Why can't Anakin go up against the dragon and.....lose? What if everyone was just plain wrong about him? What does that say about projected wishes on the backs of others? Because the way it looks to me now, Anakin was *always* evil, and just lacked a suitable chance to live out who he really was. He was *meant* to be a thug who tortured and murdered people. What does that say about Lucas's view of "providence" or "the Force"?

Lukas: Search your feelings, Father, you can't do this (to the fans). I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.

Darth Lucas: It is too late for me, son. The Emperor (my negative Father image) will show you the true nature of the Force. He is your master now.

Showing some serious Calvinist leanings there, Lucas.

- rangwe

[Chefelf]

I think it would have been powerful had the ACTUAL fall of Anakin

Episode 1

• Like Anakin and see his initial training begin.
• See some indication of flaws (not some cherubic cute little kid who clearly has NO evil in him).
• See Anakin's shortcomings (much like Luke's in ESB, impatience, etc.).
• Introduction of potential romance.

Episode 2

• See Anakin's flaws more clearly and see his temptation by the dark side.
• Development of Obi and Ani's relationship and conflicts.
• Development of Padme and Ani's relationship.

Episode 3

• Anakin's complete fall to the dark side.
• Break with Padme and end of relationship.
• Eventual conflict with Obi-Wan and becoming Vader.

Seems like such a simple format but too much is being left for Episode III. This is why it seems like it could be just one movie since the events of Episode I and II really have such little impact on what's going to happen now.

[StarWarsIsUs]

"""I dont know something like that, something good. I know it is unrealistic to expect Lucas to make the trilogy the way I wanted it to be, but these movies are totally devoid of believable human emotion. I dont really give a shit if Anakin turns or not, at least Natalie wont have to hear him whine anymore. """

Perhaps, Magee, you could go to the 'Screening Room' and check out the SWIU version of the prequels. I think you would really like them. They are by me, and I worked hard on them, trying to make them as much OT based as possible.

""Seems like such a simple format but too much is being left for Episode III. This is why it seems like it could be just one movie since the events of Episode I and II really have such little impact on what's going to happen now. ""

I urge you, dear ChefElf, my friend, to check out the SWIU version of the prequels so far.

[Magee]

I think you make two excellent points rangwe. One is that in order for Anakin to fall he needs a place to fall from. I don't LIKE Anakin Skywalker. Didnt Lucas think that this was important? He is a whiny bitch. And I would add to that, that he is an unimpressive whiny bitch. What is so impressive about Anakin's ability to use the Force? Where Luke showed his ability by destroying the Death Star, giving Vader a run for his money in ESB and his ability to fight his way through Jabba's honchos, it seems that Anakin's (greatest Jedi of all time) impressiveness is limited to his ability to juggle fruit and slaughter Tuskens (more on this later). It is confusing to me why Palpatine is even interested in turning this second rate Jedi other than that he can.

Your second point is that Lucas uses his films to act out his own complexes. I had a theory about this. Lucas' wife has left him and apparently he hasnt been on a date since (this is not speculation he talked about it on 60 minutes). I felt that he wanted to make a cute kids movie out of sorrow and show his wife what a good father he is. I was annoyed at this and pissed that he had to ruin my expections about the PT. But I felt sorry for him. I have since though decided that this is not the reason. The PT is almost entirely a gigantic advertisement to sell merchandise. It infects almost every part of every scene, and it makes me physically ill. I have actually grown to hate this man who I have adored my entire life.

[Magee]

Please give me the website, I would love to read your version. My friend and I had decided to do this, but I had to quit because the very endeavor made me depressed. I have since decided to pretend that they do not exist and will go see Episode III only to ridicule it. Ridicule from here and Chef's page has been cathartic to me. I had not been able to talk about this for more than a couple of minutes until I read Chef's page.

[StarWarsIsUs]

http://www.chefelf.c...hp?showforum=25

There you go. Look at the descriptions, mine should have SWIU Version on it. Thanks.