[Magee]

I want somebody to explain to me why Anakin is a 10 year old in the Phantom Menace. It throws the entire PT off kilter. It makes almost everything more difficult then it has to be.

Obi Wan cant really befriend him.
We lose time developing his love affair with Luke and Leia's mother.
He is not "too old to begin the training."
The audience cannot get attatched to a 10 year old.
He cannot be one of the best starfighter pilots in the galaxy.
It sets his being a "most powerful Jedi" back 2 hours of screen time.

In '99, I instantly new that this was going to be a problem. I thought that there was going to be some big reason for it. I was wrong. The only advantage that there could have been for this was to show the audience how somebody young and innocent could become evil. This is not the point of Star Wars. It is distracting and stupid stupid stupid.

[CowboyCurtis]

Your points are absolutely valid, Magee. There, inherently, is no reason to show Anakin as a child.

Add to your list.

--How can one expect a 9 year old kid and a 14 year old Queen to really be attracted to each other? We don't. If they had been closer in age (and I'm talking BOTH older), it would've worked far better.

And just like your last point, we have two hours wasted of getting these two to fall in love. This should've been "slam-bang" right off the bat, or at least the love/hate relationship banter similar to Han & Leia's in SW.

TPM = The Potential Missed.

[Lord Aquaman]

I want somebody to explain to me why Anakin is a 10 year old in the Phantom Menace. It throws the entire PT off kilter. It makes almost everything more difficult then it has to be.

Obi Wan cant really befriend him.
We lose time developing his love affair with Luke and Leia's mother.
He is not "too old to begin the training."
The audience cannot get attatched to a 10 year old.
He cannot be one of the best starfighter pilots in the galaxy.
It sets his being a "most powerful Jedi" back 2 hours of screen time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

George Lucas thought it was important to show that evil tyrants were once children.

You're very right in pointing out that being in the 9/10 year old range really doesn't make him "too old to begin the training". There's a big difference between the thought process of a 10 year old child and a guy in his early/mid 20s; a 10 year old child is still very impressionable and most likely more open to the many imaginative, some may say ludicrous, notions of the Force than a 20 something. And you're very right about the other stuff, how it sets back his "most powerful Jedi" stigma, his developing a romantic attachment to Luke & Leia's mom (love/hate relationship or whatever suits you), his inability to be a great pilot, and the difficulty of having Obi-Wan befriend him.

But as I enjoy pointing out at every oppurtunity, Obi-Wan really DOES NOT befriend Anakin at all in Episode I; they have like two to three exchanges of dialogue and glances. This is the result of the Qui-Gon Jinn continuity error.

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 05 May 2005 - 05:22 PM

[Mnesymone]

Anakin as a child... also of immaculate conception.... that pissed me off a great deal - also - why was Obi-Wan so young...

And as far as developing a love story this was BOY meets GIRL - and then 10 years later he hasn't gotten over her - in fact after ten years very little seems to have changed... oh well.

I think he wanted to do the whole ultimate innocence to ultimate evil thing... the sad descent into darkness - but he failed. I came away from TPM and, to a greater or lesser extent, from Clones thinking that he had risen to become Darth Vader, and that it was quite a remarkable success story to start out as a silly little kid, then a moody and petulant teenager, and then become such a calm and collected guy like Vader.
Way to backfire, George.

[ernesttomlinson]

I must correct: "immaculate conception" does not mean "virgin birth". (I'm Catholic, I know these things.) "Immaculate conception" is the doctrine that, because Jesus was born without sin, his mother must also have been born without sin - hence Mary must have been pure, "immaculate", when she bore Jesus. The doctrine has nothing to do with parthenogenesis. I think it's a bit nutty and certainly not a question anyone should lose any sleep over (except for pernickety, overprecise theologians, I guess.)

Making Anakin a little boy was, perhaps, Lucas's easy way out. Or maybe that's how he sees himself, the little kid with the biggest toy train set in the world. Why is it necessary for Anakin to be good at building things? It really doesn't advance the plot much (unless you think that the pod race is a plot advancement.) Possibly Lucas, because he thinks he's good at building things, gave Anakin that quality.

Also, as I pointed out in another post, sometimes little Ani the sweet, innocent child doesn't seem so innocent. He displays odd facial exp​ressions at times, especially in that last shot where he's standing by Obi-Wan, not looking at all happy, with this weird grimace. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Lord Aquaman]

Also, as I pointed out in another post, sometimes little Ani the sweet, innocent child doesn't seem so innocent.  He displays odd facial exp​ressions at times, especially in that last shot where he's standing by Obi-Wan, not looking at all happy, with this weird grimace.  Has anyone else noticed this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe it was Jake Lloyd on the verge of a temper tantrum, realizing he would not be in the next installments.

A simple flashback of Anakin as a kid and then going back to him as an adult would have gotten the point across that all tyrants were once children (like their heroic counterparts/dopplegangers), but Lucas has this very rigid system of executing his Star Wars films.

[CowboyCurtis]

Making Anakin a little boy was, perhaps, Lucas's easy way out.

Lucas' other "easy way out" IS the virgin birth. Lucas did this so Anakin wouldn't have a backstory, and a father, and grandfathers, and other ancestors who were strong in the Force, and then Lucas wouldn't be "forced" to make more prequel-sequels. Stupid dink. All he had to do is say, "I WON'T MAKE ANY MORE FREAKIN' MOVIES!" And stick to that. I swear, that guy operates on a different wavelength.

[ernesttomlinson]

You know, I think you're right, CowboyCurtis. None of this ancient mythic trope nonsense - Anakin's virgin birth was a dodge. Anakin comes into being full-formed as though he sprang out of Zeus's forehead. How lovely and simple! It takes care of so much. No backstory to deal with, as you say; no need to explain why he's special and the fulfilment of the prophecy and so forth because the reason is obvious.

You're right, Lucas is a dink.

[BinarySunset]

I must correct: "immaculate conception" does not mean "virgin birth". (I'm Catholic, I know these things.)

Thank you! I, too, am RC but I was afraid to open that whole can o' worms, so... I'm glad you explained and did so succinctly.

Magee, looks like you're a "new cop" to the board like me. If so... welcome! If you're not new, well... Hello, anyway

ITA with you that showing Anakin as a 10-year-old pretty much ignored everything that was set up in the OT. I've mentioned this on other threads as well. From what Obi Wan said in both SW (the original) and ROTJ, I envisioned this Anakin to be a grown man with a life of his own when he and Obi Wan met. And his life may or may not have included a wife, but (in my mind) Anakin was his own man. Obi Wan felt the Force flowing through him, and decided to teach him in the ways of the Force and about being a Jedi.

That was the idea I took away from the OT and, like you, I couldn't understand why in TPM we saw a 10-yr-old; why he was on Tatooine, and why Obi Wan could not have cared less about the whole thing! I agree with everyone who says that Qui-Gon Jinn need not have been in this story. Actually, before I got the "facts" straight about who was portraying whom in TPM, when I saw Liam Neeson's photo, I assumed he was playing a younger Obi Wan. Why couldn't GL have done it that way? I'm still trying to figure that out.

A simple flashback of Anakin as a kid and then going back to him as an adult would have gotten the point across that all tyrants were once children

ITA Lord Aquaman - as a matter of fact, my mother says that GL should use flashbacks and "fast forwards" to tell this stroy. And my Mom is by NO means a fanatic like we are on this board. So if she can come up with that, why couldn't GL? (that's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer )

Magee, great post. This subject happens to be my biggest problem with the PT, so I'm glad you brought it up. You are not alone.

[Lord Aquaman]

That was the idea I took away from the OT and, like you, I couldn't understand why in TPM we saw a 10-yr-old; why he was on Tatooine, and why Obi Wan could not have cared less about the whole thing!  I agree with everyone who says that Qui-Gon Jinn need not have been in this story.  Actually, before I got the "facts" straight about who was portraying whom in TPM, when I saw Liam Neeson's photo, I assumed he was playing a younger Obi Wan.  Why couldn't GL have done it that way?  I'm still trying to figure that out.


ITA Lord Aquaman - as a matter of fact, my mother says that GL should use flashbacks and "fast forwards" to tell this stroy.  And my Mom is by NO means a fanatic like we are on this board.  So if she can come up with that, why couldn't GL? (that's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer  )

Magee, great post.  This subject happens to be my biggest problem with the PT, so I'm glad you brought it up. You are not alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Binary Sunset, you're alright!

[Primetime]

There really was no point to it. That innocence to evil nonsense is pure garbage. He basically wanted a kids flick; a Disney film. He wanted a new generation of youngsters to get into the saga (at the expense of the rest of us).

[CowboyCurtis]

You can still have innocence if Anakin is 15-18, or at least a nobler person. The "grown man" thing just doesn't sit right with me. I mean, if Luke was "too old" for the training, then a 25-30 year old is definitely too old!

He has to be at that age when you are idealistic and still a tad naive (16-18), and people still try to tell you how to live your life. It has to be at an age when you're at a cross-roads in your life. At age 9-10, you're not at a cross-roads, at 16-18, you're nearly an adult, and that's a crucial stage---you're leaving home, you're making a big decision. If you're already an adult and someone says, "You wanna join the Jedi?" *Shrug* "okay, I've got nothing better to do." He just has nothing to "lose" at an older adult age.

If he's at the "cross-road" age, and Owen his brother, and they have the same mother, and Owen says that Anakin's interests lie "here" at the farm, Owen will be much angrier with Anakin after Anakin leaves. And, he'll definitely be sore--and blame Anakin for Shmi's death.

"You have all that power, and you're chasing through the stars! You should've been here! You should've been here to protect her! "

Could be very powerful, great drama.

ITA Lord Aquaman - as a matter of fact, my mother says that GL should use flashbacks and "fast forwards" to tell this stroy. And my Mom is by NO means a fanatic like we are on this board. So if she can come up with that, why couldn't GL? (that's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer )

Lucas never used flashbacks before in SW, so it wouldn't make sense to start now.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""ITA Lord Aquaman - as a matter of fact, my mother says that GL should use flashbacks and "fast forwards" to tell this stroy.  And my Mom is by NO means a fanatic like we are on this board.  So if she can come up with that, why couldn't GL? (that's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer  )""

You might find my Prequel re-do's interesting then, Binary. They are an alternative prequel trilogy, as I think it should have been. I use flashbacks in Episode I: The Clone Wars.

[StarWarsIsUs]

""TPM = The Potential Missed.""

Exactly what it stands for in these forums.

[Magee]

Anakin has to be from Tatooine, because Obi Wan says "Your uncle thought that he should have stayed here, not gotten involved."

Which of course is just another great line that gave me chills as I used to imagine the potential of the PT and now just gives me cold douche chills as I think of how Lucas refused to read the OT scripts before putting pen to paper.

When Anakin returned from the sand people's village with his dead mother did Owen sit down to dinner that night and say, "You know Anakin, I think you never should have gotten involved."

And gotten involved in what exactly? The battle in Naboo? I dont really understand. There is no sense in the PT that the rest of the galaxy is even paying attention to the government, OR THE WAR for that matter.