[StarWarsIsUs]

Now that you have indeed dared me, I've made a thread for a suggestion checklist. A few of you posted suggestions in the 'Dare Me' thread, but those are scattered and crammed in between strange humor, so I would like to make this ONLY for your personal suggestions on my remakes. What would you like changed? Added? Taken away?

Alright, here is how it works. Short and sweet. Just write the abbreviation for the OT installment, and put what you would like to change about it. For those who do not comprehend, here is a prime example.

ANH -

ESB -

ROTJ -

Mmkay?

[Mnesymone]

All right.
Don't touch ANH.
Empire doesn't need anything on Hoth or Bespin - It can be tempered somehow in the middle so it isn't so choppy. Perhaps use the Interdictor Cruisers that appear in the later novel stories as a way of keeping the Falcon in the Hoth system so that the trip to Bespin doesn't give you the impression of being carried out on sublight - they just take ages to get past the blockade and they head to Bespin to make repairs and so they don't lead the Imperials to the Rebel rendezvous. Luke's training remains largely similar.
ROTJ - here you get to do some serious work. Don't make jabba a maddened slug on Tatooine - move him to another world, a new one, and give him the kind of organisation that could do galactic smuggling - change his species and don't let him have Boba Fett hanging around. Also cut out the perverse undertones of Jabba's palace and make the Rancor somewhat scarier if indeed keeping it at all.
The Second Death Star was a re-hash, also it weakened the character of Vader since he was against the first one but seems to be monkey-boy to the new one. Turn it into a massive Star Destroyer shipyard - or perhaps the Emperor has a palace space station of comparable scale to the original Death Star but different shape and purpose. Trade Ewoks for Wookies. Don't have forest going right up to the bunker - clear fell everything down there around the base. Don't bring 3PO and R2 to Endor - what good would they do? Also, if you really want to be daring, don't make Leia Luke's sister, since that was a cop-out... introduce The Other as a new character - perhaps something a la the Emperor's Hand.
Finally - Lando's death - that way it doesn't have the uberhappy ending we all hate, dislike, don't mind, or think was cool depending on our mental age.

[Just another wretched fan]

Empire doesn't need anything on Hoth or Bespin> WHAAT? hoth and bespin is the entire movie.

THATs the entire movie. Hoth was amazing. AT-ATs, snowspeeders. Awesome. So was Bespin! A floating city? never seen before on film!!! Don't cut them out!! ESB was flawless.


It can be tempered somehow in the middle so it isn't so choppy. Perhaps use the Interdictor Cruisers that appear in the later novel stories as a way of keeping the Falcon in the Hoth system so that the trip to Bespin doesn't give you the impression of being carried out on sublight - they just take ages to get past the blockade and they head to Bespin to make repairs and so they don't lead the Imperials to the Rebel rendezvous. Luke's training remains largely similar.
The hyperdrive antics gave us some of han's best proformances. the fact that they were trying to fix it set up that great kiss scene.



ROTJ - here you get to do some serious work. Don't make jabba a maddened slug on Tatooine - move him to another world, a new one, and give him the kind of organisation that could do galactic smuggling - change his species and don't let him have Boba Fett hanging around. Also cut out the perverse undertones of Jabba's palace and make the Rancor somewhat scarier if indeed keeping it at all.

Body Fett hanging out doesn't make sense unless he had a very good reason too, let another bounty and a good party.

The fat slug gangster is a cult classic now. You can't change that. Jabba the Hutt is as well known as any SW character. I always thought that the reason Han ran into Greedo on Tatooine was because that was Jabba's base of operations. I thought it was alluded to in ANH. Them returning to Tatooine makes sense. "Boy returns home a Man" archetype. I never thought of him as an intergalactic crime overlord, just a rich smack dealer. Don't hate just because he's fat. A lot of gansters are fat and they still play the game.


The Second Death Star was a re-hash, also it weakened the character of Vader since he was against the first one but seems to be monkey-boy to the new one. Turn it into a massive Star Destroyer shipyard - or perhaps the Emperor has a palace space station of comparable scale to the original Death Star but different shape and purpose. Trade Ewoks for Wookies. Don't have forest going right up to the bunker - clear fell everything down there around the base. Don't bring 3PO and R2 to Endor - what good would they do?

Yeah, its stupid, but it works. We already have the biggest starship we've ever seen. You thought the ANH Star Destroyer was huge? We got blown away by the Super Star Destroyer and the Imperial Fleet in ESB. You really can't get any bigger than a Death Star and a SSD which out getting corny.

Plus, the way they destroyed it made more sense then 2 proton torpedoes in an exhaust port. What would make a shipyard so important to bring the emperor there in person?

All i'm saying is that you can't top a world-destroyer and the biggest starshp you've ever seen.

Also, if you really want to be daring, don't make Leia Luke's sister, since that was a cop-out... introduce The Other as a new character - perhaps something a la the Emperor's Hand.

Look what happened when GL tried to introduce too many primary characters in the PT. It didn't work. The only main characters we were introduced to in ESB were two heros, Yoda and Lando. In ROTJ we get the Emperor and Jabba. Throwing in Mara Jade would be way too much. IMO. If you reform the Jabba's palace scene to have the plan fail at first...in a way that lets us get some genuine Leia/Han classic dialogue instead of mush, you'll kill multiple birds with one blaster bolt. Quite honestly, the mushy romance would have worked out much better if Carrie Fisher wasn't on coke at the time.

[Storm Shadow]

JAWF, I agree with you 100%.

Mnesymone, no offense, but a Star Destroyer shipyard? That's not a very good idea. At all. Give me DS 2 over that anyday.

[Mnesymone]

I'm mainly remembering the Bilbringi shipyard battle out of the Zahn books - I thought it worked - but if you want the Death Star version 2.0 thats fine by me - what about some giant armed and armoured space station Emperor's Palace affair - which I mentioned up there...

"All i'm saying is that you can't top a world-destroyer and the biggest starshp you've ever seen."

You don't have to do something bigger - something different works just as well. And also that argument also works against the second Death Star - though the battle about it topped the dogfights and trench runs out of ANH the DS2 did not top the original Death Star.

[Just another wretched fan]

Now, if in the PT, we develop Palpatine's character to show his obsession with destroying planets, we might see why he would insist on building another superlaser. Back when i thought GL was the master who knew what he was doing, i figured that he was developing character. I mean, Hitler had some dumb ass ideas but everyone had to obey him. I figured it was the same way for the Emperor.

Hitler: Invade Russia!
General: But...but...
Hitler: Do it!
General: Ja, mein fuhrer.

Palpatine: Build another Death Star!
General #1: But that's retarded!
Palpatine: Zap!
General #2: Yessir!

Yes, its weak. But explaining that Palpatine has a fetish for weapons of mass destruction in the PT would strengthen ROTJ, the weakest part of the trilogy. I mean, look at Palpatines face when he talks about his beloved fully functional battle station. He's so turned on by raw destructive power that his probably pitching a tent. The PT should explain his obession, why he addicted to wielding so much power - even though the idea of a second death star is insane. He must have been so pissed the DS1 was destroyed before he could command it. Too bad there wasn't a scene at the beginning of the movie where Vader references the demise of the officer who protested creating the second death star.

If the PT also explained Palpatine's hatred of aliens, the ewok factor might be a lot more credible. especially in a super-special edition that deleted several notorious ewok scenes and filmed new footage of blast-plate wearing Ewoks with thermal detonators, sniper rifles, and artillery. Dub over the Yub Yubs. Don't laugh. It can be done.

Hell, give me a camera, a crew, some fans with stormtrooper costumes, a few little people and ewok costumes, some props, and a digital computer with effects package and i'll make those new scenes for you to insert.

Btw, while i'm at it, dub over the General Solo and General Calrissian dialgoue with "Captain Solo and Commander Calrissian" and suddenly the entire battle of Endor makes sense.

On the issue of Leia being the other, check one of despondant's articles in the countdown thread its post #23 under his countdown. Look at letter from Robert:

The concept of lovers turning out to be brother and sister was a popular device in classical mythology and arabian tales.

It already seems like Leia has force sensitivity from the end of ESB. It makes sense that she's the other. They don't necessarily have to be brother and sister. But it made sense. Plus, any wierdness generated by their relationship is more than made up for in the "under the staircase" scene in the throne room.

The Yoda death scene is touching and should be left as is.

Now the only problem is Jabba's palace. To bad we can't digitally take the cocaine out of Carrie Fisher in a super special edition. Personally, i don't think harrison ford did that bad of a job at first, but then the Han Solo we know and love becomes barely recognizable. Can anybody think of a way to fix him up?

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 03 May 2005 - 11:34 PM

[Mnesymone]

Fair enough points in all - but I never bought the whole 'Leia and Luke were always meant to be brother and sister all along' thing - what with Luke originally being a woman and Luke and Leia poised to make out in Empire (scene was cut - probably cause it made the princess seem slatternly to make out with both male leads)... The dialogue between Luke and Vader in the final duel was the only redeeming feature of the Luke-Leia borther-sister... perhaps it would have sat better if the relevant deliveries were better, but the ghostly obi-wan on a park bench and the "I know. Somehow I've always known/ He's my brother" stuff were pretty weak scenes.

[Just another wretched fan]

yeah, i totally agree they were weak scenes and that GL pulled it out of his ass. I'm just saying, and we both agree, that ROTJ turned out pretty well because of its excellent parts. The Luke/Leia relationship is forgivable, imo. With CGI you can fix the poorer parts of the forest battle of endor. the space battle and the throne room scenes don't need to be touched.

Lets say, hypothetically speaking, you CGI a different shape over the Death Star model, so it doesn't looks like the DS2. I believe that none of the imperial characters refer to it as a "Death Star" they just call it a "battle station." Lets say you edit Lando and Mon Mothma's dialogue to replace "Death Star" with "battle station", too.

Now you basically just have a frickn huge imperial fleet with a SSD and a super-lasered imperial construct...you know what...scratch that...they more i try to change it, the less it makes sense.

DS2 doesn't make sense, but i can't think of anything else that makes more sense. The big weapon of ANH was the DS1. The big weapon of ESB was the fleet. Now you combine both and destroy both along with the emperor. It works. You just have to think of a DS likes its a SSD or other capital ship.

idk...going to my either point about changing the appearance of the DS so it wasn't a DS. what if it was less spherical and more skeletal. Just a superlaser, reactor, station, and palace. Would it be more believable? What if we inserted multiple spherical space stations in orbit around Endor, but only one had a superlaser. Would it make it feel less like "Death Star 2" and more like "just another part of the fleet" ?

bah, i don't even know what i'm talking about anymore.

[Casual Fan]

OK, I'll give it a try.

ANH -change nothing. Don't mess with a classic.

ESB -When a sequel came out (I was around ten years old), I thought it would be about the Rebel assault on the Emperor's capital, following up with their success on the Death Star. I was actually disappointed with the direction the sequel took instead, though I grew to appreciate it later. I'm still not sure about the "I'm your father" plotline.

Accepting the basic structure of the ESB plot, change little. Its an excellent movie. One thing that bothered me is what Superstar Destroyers actually do. If Luke can go to different system in a small fighter, and a small freighter can outmanuever the SSBs, what is the point? They only make sense as a means of ferrying fighters over distances the fighters can't reach.

Therefore, have Luke get to Dagobah differently somehow. Maybe it turns out to be where the new rebel base is and he gets there on a cruiser. Yoda just happens to live there. Yes, I know that's bad but its no worse than a force ghost telling him where Dagobah is.

Also, slightly more information about how the Millenium Falcon gets to Bespin, and how long it takes, and then how Luke exactly finds Bespin and gets there. Just tighten up on small, annoying plot points like that and keep everything else the same.

The worm-on-the-asteroid scene was funny but its a good candidate for being cut to free up time to clear up these plot points. Same with anything involving C3PO on Bespin. I would put some of the early, painful dialogue on the rebel base at Hoth in th same category. Cut this and you might get some more scenes in of Luke's training.

ROTJ -again, I think once you accept the overall premise the picture mostly delivers. But unlike ESB it could use some big changes.

First the Ewoks. They are actually allied to the Empire. That is why the new Death Star is built where it is. The Ewoks will protect the shield generator, there is only a very small imperial force. The rebels know about the small size of the imperial force, but the Ewoks are a surprise and the rebel commandos get ambushed. That's why its a trap. Then Leia, or Luke, or whoever "flips" the Ewoks to the rebel side. All the Endor scenes become much more tense and actually make sense.

Tatooine There is a first attempt to rescue Han, before Leia or Luke show up, that fails. It would improve things it Luke and Leia actually had a real plan, plus Jabba is a more believable villian. He can still be slug. I found Leia's harem girl outfit creepy juxtabposed with Jabba and out of place in this sort of movie. However, I thought the muppet band was fine, though I was somewhat disappointed that none of them were fed to the Wampa.

The Emperor. I liked these scenes, but there should be more positive reasons for Luke to go to the dark side than "you will go to the dark side whether you want to or not. Now get really really angry". This only requires adding a couple more lines of dialogue. Also, we should see the Death Star zap more rebel ships. The rebel situation has to appear to be so desperate that Luke's going to the dark side is the ONLY way he can save his friends. I think this was the direction Lucas wanted to go in but the rebel situation never becomes desparate enough.

As for having a second Death Star, come on what else are you going to have? The only alternative is Coruscant and I think that was precluded by ESB -the rebels get kicked around too much there to be able to pull off an attack on the imperial capital. Some of the criticism of ROTJ vs ESB is unfair since ROTJ had to work within the material of two preceding movies, with the first sequel there were fewer constraints on the storylines.

[StarWarsIsUs]

Alright. I've read all your posts, and am taking all of them into account. Later on, when people stop posting here, I will put in my final say, and will state what I will change, and what I will not change. I thank you all for your suggestions, keep it up.

[Lord Aquaman]

Personally, i don't think harrison ford did that bad of a job at first, but then the Han Solo we know and love becomes barely recognizable. Can anybody think of a way to fix him up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps if George Lucas had simply given in and agreed to kill Han Solo then Harrison Ford would have been more motivated - his enthusiasm/interest in the work surfaces a little bit during the battle scenes when he's surrounded by chaos and mayhem, but during some of the other scenes, well...

I won't argue about the ranks of Han and Lando - commanders and captains yes, generals no.

Oh, and let's see if we can digitally add some female rebels in there. Why should Leia have all the fun?

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 04 May 2005 - 07:47 AM

[StarWarsIsUs]

We could end up with Leia and Luke being together, with Han dieing. That would be unique.

[Lord Aquaman]

We could end up with Leia and Luke being together, with Han dieing. That would be unique.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So long as you take out the thing about Luke & Leia being siblings - unless you're an incest fan.

[Primetime]

So long as you take out the thing about Luke & Leia being siblings - unless you're an incest fan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ROTJ needs a complete overhaul. No Luke and Leia sibling nonsense. No second DS. No return to Tatooine. And obviously no ewoks! All hack ideas!

Think about where the storyline should have evolved . . . In ESB, Vader uses Han and Leia to lure Luke. After failing to secure Luke, does he just give up on the whole idea for three years? Where's the one place he knows he can find Luke? On the trail of Solo! That's where your story should begin. Maybe Fett never gets to Jabba. maybe Fett hears through the grapevine that Vader never got his "prize," so being the smart bounty hunter that he is, holds onto Solo and enters into negotiations for teh highest bidder.

[Primetime]

Why do we even need a galactic space station in ROTJ? What's the point? This should really be about the saving of Solo and the final confrontation between Luke and Vader (and the Emporer). Ol' GL tries tying up so many lose ends in his version . . . I mean, in ESB, don't we get the impression that the rebels are depleted and on the run? How are these guys ready in three short years to take on the Empire in one sweeping final battle? In b.s.!