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A Sith Lord controls the Republic Doku's big mouth

#1 User is offline   DragonLord Icon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 10:31 AM

Ok, so we have a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that the Jedi's are incompetent.
So far Palpatine's "plan" is working alright. Nobody even knows about him. However, after these lines:

"The truth. What if I told you that the
Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lords of the
Sith?"

"The dark side of the Force has clouded their
vision, my friend. Hundreds of Senators are now under the
influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious."

"You must join me, Obi-Wan, and together
we will destroy the Sith."

Lets not discuss this unbeliavebly dumb scene or why Doku is so incredibly stupid to try and make Obi-Wan join him for a moment, and just consider the consequences of him giving away Palpatines entire secret. Up until now, nobody in the Jedi-counsel had a single clue about this Dark Lord. Now however, Doku gave almost everything away.

Is it so hard to find out who this Dark Lord is now? Someone who is in control of the republic? Someone who influences hundreds of senators? Someone who is so strong in the force, that he is the master of Darth Maul and (Darth?) Doku?

If the Jedi's are too weak to sense anything, then why not just demand bloodsamples from every major politician ? Lets put that stupid inclusion of midichlorians to good use, shall we? Idiots...
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Posted 02 May 2005 - 01:36 PM

biggrin.gif That's some great points there. Especially the whodunnit Midichlorian test. Imagine a scene like the one in The Thing where Palpatine is strapped down in a chair while they poke some of his blood with the tip of a lightsaber.

Seriously though, Lucas probably thought he could recreate the Luke/Vader temptation. Hey, here's a tip. You need a good story and believable characters expressing real emotions to do that George.
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Posted 02 May 2005 - 02:26 PM

You'd think Obi-Wan would at least pretend to be interested just so he could rat out the villain, as pointed out in the 64 Reasons to Hate Episode II.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:20 PM

Yes, but you're forgetting Lucas's reason: "The Jedi's power to use the Force has diminished."

It's the excuse that is continually repeated that allows this uber lame plot to evolve the way it does.
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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:43 PM

The scene where Dooku attempts to 'tempt' Obi-Wan, IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to much like the Fellowship of the Ring with Saruman and Gandalf!!!! Is that where GL got that? And it's the same guy who played Saruman, which makes it even worse!
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Posted 02 May 2005 - 06:23 PM

It's also almost line-for-line the same as Darth Vader and Luke, just without the emotions behind the deliveries.

Besides - revealing the plot is a commonly cliched bad guy antic - and seeing as they (the Jedi) do nothing about it, it's not as though the bad guys lost any ground.
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#7 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 07:45 PM

I included more of the script here than necessary for my post, because i got goosebumps just reading it. pinch.gif

QUOTE
        At that instant, Vader's sword comes down across Luke's right
        forearm, cutting off his hand and sending his sword flying.
        In great pain, Luke squeezes his forearm under his left armpit
        and moves back along the gantry to its extreme end. Vader
        follows. The wind subsides. Luke holds on. There is nowhere
        else to go.

VADER: There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. You do not yet
realize your importance. You have only begun to discover you power.
Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength,
we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.

LUKE: I'll never join you!

VADER: If you only knew the power of the dark side. Obi-Wan never told
you what happened to your father.

LUKE: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.

VADER: No. I am your father.

           Shocked, Luke looks at Vader in utter disbelief.

LUKE: No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!

VADER: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

LUKE: No! No! No!

VADER: Luke. You can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen this. It is
your destiny. Join me, and we can rule the galaxy as father and son.
Come with me. It's the only way.


Combine this with the emperor's speech, and it always figured that they tried the same approach on Anakin and succeeded. But no, they waste it on Obi-Wan and Anakin will turn b/c of his mommy. yell.gif

Take that bullshit piece of AOTC dialogue you quoted. Fix it up, and deliver it to Anakin, and it makes so much more sense. I mean, didn't little Anakin swear that if he had more power he'd free all the slaves in the galaxy? Doesn't Anakin want peace and order. He wants to be a good guy, right?

can't you see this scene happening? :

QUOTE
DOKU: There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. You do not yet
realize your importance. You have only begun to discover you power.
Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength,
we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.

Anakin's eyes widen, then become serious again. He shifts his stance and continues to stare down Doku, who continues speaking.

//not sure if i like what i wrote here:

DOKU: Anakin. We can destroy the Cloners and reform the republic. Together we can rule the new galactic order. You could stop all the evils you experienced as a child. You can bring peace to the galaxy.  That is what you want...right? It can be yours. It is your destiny.

ANAKIN: I'll never join you.


THERE IS SO MUCH FUCKING POTENTIAL IN THE PT AND GL BLEW IT!!!!

yell.gif yell.gif

This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 02 May 2005 - 07:46 PM

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 09:13 PM

A good point, Just-Another-Wretched-Fan. I like what you wrote well enough, it's better than anything GL gave us.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#9 User is offline   Just another wretched fan Icon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:55 PM

thanks man, i try. now i'm all inspired and shit.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:47 AM

I disagree, i think there was NO POTENTIAL in the PT. I feel it's a story that should never been told. A better movie would have been, heck, KOTOR 1.

I want to see the galaxy 5000 years before Palpatines rule. I want to see Jedi in their prime, not decaying stage. In KOTOR, Jedi were in their prime they fell due to a civil war. Both side fought in what they believed in and overall that plays up a much more well balanced plot.

Instead we get something along the lines of - Jedi loose power, Jedi still good, Jedi not strong, bad guys win.

If Lucas allowed the KOTOR story to fly, he and everybody else could have had a lot more to work with. Everything would have been fresh and experimental.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 03 May 2005 - 12:49 AM

Oh SMEG. What the smeggity smegs has smeggins done? He smeggin killed me. - Lister of Smeg, space bum
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#11 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:24 AM

Obi Wan not doing ANYTHING with this just shows him to be an infinitely more stupid character than he ever was in the OT.

I know you guys are all mentioning the mandatory villain-revealing-plot-to-prisoner scene. This does not work with intrigue. Nope nope. Especially not when the good guys will have TEN FRIGGIN YEARS to stop it. Something about that just rubs me the wrong way. And what if Obi Wan had accepted?

"Ok. I'll let you go"

"Good. Now tell me who the mole is."

"It's Palpatine."

"Ok then let me just make a call. Hey master Yoda, smack Palpatine around."

The fucking end.

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:36 AM

I mentioned this in the 'Evil will always triumph...' thread as well. No matter how much I turn it around in my head, I still can't work out what the hell Dooku thought he was doing. What if Obi-Wan had believed him?
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:55 AM

Then he would have told Yoda and Mace, and they would have sat on cushions and gone "Hmmm"
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#14 User is offline   DragonLord Icon

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 04:42 PM

biggrin.gif Exactly!

The funny part about all this is that I was watching the movie with a friend of mine and we were both laughing at the "plot". I mean come on, Jar Jar put Palpatine in power... As we were watching and making jokes he asked (just before the scene with Doku) "what the hell has to happen so that these Jedi understand what's going on?" and I said something like "someone has to knock on the Jedi Council's door and say: 'A Sith Lord is the new Emperor/King/President of the Republic'".

In a few seconds that basically happens!!
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:52 PM

Mnesymone- Yup, apparently thats just what they did for ten years.

"Master Yoda its been five years now and chancellor palpatine is cackling at you all the time, havnt you figured it out yet?"

"hmmm when eight hundred ninety years old you are, think so fast you will not."

"But master Yoda the problem with the sith lords controlling the republic is more important. Why dont you put down that crossword puzzle?"

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