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Evil will always triumph because good is dumb A mini-essay

#16 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:48 AM

Great work once again, Helena. thumbsup.gif devil.gif
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:18 AM

Helena, you make an especially good point there when you note that Anakin, in Episode, shows no extraordinary talent. After all the hype from the first movie, all the virgin birth, "Chosen One", more midichlorians than Master Yoda nonsense, all we see is a pissant teenager who doesn't look to be any better a Jedi than Obi-Wan. For all the movie's flaws, Episode I gets across the young Obi-Wan's talent - perhaps that's largely Ewan McGregor's ability. When he flourishes his lightsabre you can't help but smile. Anakin, by comparison, is utterly unappealing. Perhaps it's unfair to ask Hayden Christensen to measure up to McGregor, who is very possibly the most appealing and charismatic young actor to appear in the past ten years, but it's not like Lucas gave Christensen much to work with.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:05 AM

Nice work Helena!

"9. If Amidala or Qui-Gon had told the Jedi about the Sand People incident."

Or perhaps Yoda? He says "Young Skywalker is in great pain.." or something, while at the same time you hear Qui-Gon shout "Anakin, Noooo!!!" If Yoda can sense what Anakin feels clear cross the galaxy, it seems the Force is only clouded when it suits Lucas stupid script. Also, wouldn't Yoda be able to sense that Anakins massive grief was abruptely replaced by homicidal wrath? No, not in the Georgieverse. yell.gif
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:29 AM

Helena, you get the props from me. This is fantastic stuff. I could sop it up with a bisquit! Can't wait for RotS. A bumper crop I predict, mmmmm, yess! Good points too, ernest. I seriously get down when I see how contrived the politics appear.

1. If the Republic had its own army, part 2.
The fact that the Republic has not responded to the threat posed by TPM is consistent with a government made up of muppets. That Amidala is not at the forefront of this political change is consistent with the sexist culture of the Republic. The Jedi, being a group composed of sociopaths, also continue to be consistent in their refusal to engage with reality.

Lucas must be a Taurus! Stubborn! Determined to be consistent with his sucky universe! Dude needs some serious Virgo action criticizing his cloud, and some major Scorpio vacu-jack action to lighten-the-choad-up.

2. If the Republic had a truly independent judiciary.
Four trials in the Supreme Court? Four missed free-throws in the People's Court is more like it. Palpatine didn't need to bend justice (See "Miracle on 34th street", also "how backroom Court politics are conducted"), because, as we all know, all the villain in this trilogy has to do is watch his master plan execute flawlessly regardless of outside interference.

Nute Gunray, despite being about as believable a Bill Gates character as Richie Rich, forms a vital part in the *Big Picture* (See "15 Credits", also "Its awfully Big"), such that it is absolutely impossible to remove him without crashing the Matrix. Amidala was obviously living the life of the idle debuttante and spending her trust fund instead of buying the judges herself. Master politician, she!

3. If the Jedi hadn’t continued to train Anakin, despite the fact that he clearly isn’t suited to the Jedi path.
As far as I can tell, the Old Republic Jedi path is about the use of force for attack, not the use of The Force for knowledge and defense. As such, Anakin was obviously "our kind of guy" (See Rumsfeld's comments about Saddam circa early eighties, also "demonstration of force against civillians").

Given that, I have to say I was also surprised to see how weak Anakin was. So much for being "the One". He really did turn out to be "just some guy". I can only conclude the "prophecy" was just some code phrase for a Jedi Rave where everybody got high as a kite and had a Jim Morrison moment of revelation. We, the audience, of course, have no clue what the hell they are talking about.

4. If the Jedi hadn’t allowed Anakin to associate with Palpatine during his training.
The only thing that I can conclude is that the Jedi are unable to see Palpatine at all, and the scenes in which they speak to him as Chancellor, they must be actually talking to someone else off-camera.

Anakin can see Palpatine perfectly, but the rest of the Jedi assume the Paddy-wan to be talking to an imaginary friend or personal daemon (See "Harvey", also, "Donnie Darko"). As all the other Jedi are insane and many of them have several personalities and pet MeeGees of their own, Anakin's mild delusion would in no way precipitate any alarm.

5. If the Jedi hadn’t assigned Anakin to protect Amidala.
Not only are the Jedi insane, but many of them suffer from serious sexual disorders. In their own minds, they probably thought Anakin was "normal" and a "perfect match" for Amidala, another insane sex offender like themselves.

Anakin has been busy learning how to kill people and flaunt his power. To expect the restraint and maturity that, say living in a Buddhist Shrine for ten years would produce is too much to ask of Lucas. God bless him for thinking of us.

6. If Amidala hadn’t chosen Jar Jar to stand in for her in the Senate.
7. If the Senate hadn’t permitted Jar Jar to stand in for Amidala.
Jar Jar must have come across some scandalous pictures of Amidala during his internship and purloined (huh-huh, I said "loin") it into a chance to play Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. That whacky Amidala!

This probably happens all the time. Our career politician is busy living La Vida Loca as the new Paris Hilton of Naboob. She can hardly be bothered to show up for class...I mean a session when she was busy all night consuming mass quantities with her posse at the crib.

I find Jar-Jar's lack of whacky antics in the scene frankly pretty unsettling. Was this just some ploy to further humiliate a Gungan? I'm a good little doggie.

8. If the Jedi had noticed the change in Anakin after the Sand People incident.
"What was that? Oh, nothing. Yoda, stop boggarting that crack-pipe and pass it down!

9. If Amidala or Qui-Gon had told the Jedi about the Sand People incident.
Amidala clearly is turned on by confessions of mass murder and psychotic breakdown (probably the most disturbing scene in AotC as a result of the total disconnect of his confession and her reaction). Qui-Gon is dead now, so who cares what he has to say?

10. If the Jedi had listened to Dooku.
Dooku didn't believe Palpatine when he said "it doesn't matter what you say or do to them. My plan is absolutely 100% foolproof." Dooku was just testing the statement, and was amazed when Obi-Wan showed no interest at all in what he revealed.

11. If the Republic and Jedi had been more wary of taking on a clone army.
The Jedi never "trust their feelings" but they definitely appear to "never look a gift horse in the mouth".

I just want to cry. This is more than any one should have to endure! Cruel, cruel world!

- rangwe
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE
I just want to cry. This is more than any one should have to endure! Cruel, cruel world!


I agree with you there.. fully! sad.gif

Good work on those facts, Helena. I think that Episode III will blow for sure.

Which is why I'm not going to watch it at the movies, but rather buy it on VHS (not DVD) and then have my movie marathon...
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#21 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:02 PM

As a student of nothing, I have even more free time. So I decided to offer a few playful rebuttals to helena’s essay. Im trying to show that we don’t know the whole story of the republic and that there is quite possibly a good reason behind all these difficulties.

1. You say you wont accept any argument against the republic having an army! But yet the republic didn’t have one. Instead of focusing on all the reasons they should have one, ask why didn’t they? My first thought is that the reason there has been no war for a thousand years is because there were no armies to fight in them. And if the republic is indeed galactic, then what outside threats could there be? Since no other galaxies are mentioned. My next thought was that each planet probably has laws banning a military. In the same way the Tokugawa shogunate promoted peace by banning weapons from civilians. Peace was kept by the samurai. I hope everyone can recognize the parallels between samurai and jedi. Finally, the thought occurred to me that it would be very difficult to form an army out of thousands of distinct species, cultures and traditions. Chewie complains about the imperial ship’s controls not being designed for wookies! Imagine trying to design tanks and weapons and uniforms to fit all these different standards. In fact, only a clone army or a racist army could be effective. Even the rebellion has very, very few aliens in it. And yes an army of the republic would settle the TF blockade quickly. An army is much more effective than a diplomat...quicker, easier, more seductive than a diplomat...

In my opinion, having my planet invaded would strength my resolve in banning armies all together, then no one can invade anyone, ever.

2. We don’t know how this government is supposed to work. By the time of TPM, the republic is falling apart.
The blockade is illegal! That’s what the treaty was for, remember?
There should be clear procedures but the bureaucracy is on the pay role of the TF. And what ever procedures they had clearly “no longer functions”.
Who says they don’t have a regional department? Naboo is just one instance of the whole trade route dispute. Its no just one or two, all the outlying star systems are in danger.
Im sure there is a diplomatic core, palpatine says plainly that the chancellor should never have involved the jedi. It was a bad move.
Ok, im not sure how they’d enforce their laws without a military...maybe they do have a small military, or perhaps they rely on embargos and such.
Though we don’t see it, I assume the attempted murder was reported as soon as they reached coruscant. Communications were jammed. And then it was no longer safe to send messages.

3. The TF has its own planet, but I imagine they ‘own’ several others, making their planetary name no longer sufficient, so they gave their confederation of planets a new name. As such, they have every right to be in the senate.

4. Naboo has a volunteer army. They lived under the assumption that the republic could protect them. In another time the republic could have but not with so much corruption. When amidala realizes this, she seeks out an army.

5. The senate never got a chance to review the evidence. The TF objected immediately to the accusations and a bureaucrat whispered something troubling in valorum’s ear. Then before evidence could be brought forward, amidala moved for the vote against valorum at palpatine’s behest.

6. Valorum was mired by baseless accusations of corruptions. It shows in the screenplay that palpatine was behind this. Maybe ten years ago valorum was popular, but it seems everyone was ready for a change.

7. Obi-wan wants to please his master. He’s trusting his faith in qui-gon and qui-gon’s faith in anakin. Ben tells us that he thought he could train anakin as well as yoda. Obi-wan had qui-gon’s defiance in him, it was the death of him.

8. We only hear mace’s and yoda’s opinions, and they are not the only jedi on the council. Yoda says he personally does not agree with the training. I got the impression he was the only one against it becuase then he says “agree with you the council does.” is yoda speaking for the whole council when he says no, or when he says yes?

9.yes, yes, I agree whole-heartedly. That is lousy and I cant defend that. Someone should have freed shmi.

part 2 coming soon!

This post has been edited by xenduck: 03 May 2005 - 06:06 PM

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:09 PM

""" My first thought is that the reason there has been no war for a thousand years is because there were no armies to fight in them. And if the republic is indeed galactic, then what outside threats could there be? Since no other galaxies are mentioned. My next thought was that each planet probably has laws banning a military. In the same way the Tokugawa shogunate promoted peace by banning weapons from civilians. Peace was kept by the samurai. I hope everyone can recognize the parallels between samurai and jedi. Finally, the thought occurred to me that it would be very difficult to form an army out of thousands of distinct species, cultures and traditions. Chewie complains about the imperial ship’s controls not being designed for wookies! Imagine trying to design tanks and weapons and uniforms to fit all these different standards. """"

That is no excuse. No EXCUSE at all. We don't want excuses, we want honest answers to the question of the Republic not having an army. SO what if the army was multi-racial? SO WHAT? And just because it had the Jedi, doesn't mean the need for an army should be ignored. The sentence of 'imagine trying to design tanks and weapons and uniforms to fit all these different standards', is the one that makes me even more ticked off! There would be no reason not to design all these things for the races that would be part of the army. You even mention that it takes place in ONE galaxy... there are only SO MANY races in one galaxy, then.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (xenduck @ May 3 2005, 06:02 PM)
1. You say you wont accept any argument against the republic having an army! But yet the republic didn’t have one. Instead of focusing on all the reasons they should have one, ask why didn’t they? My first thought is that the reason there has been no war for a thousand years is because there were no armies to fight in them. And if the republic is indeed galactic, then what outside threats could there be? Since no other galaxies are mentioned. My next thought was that each planet probably has laws banning a military. In the same way the Tokugawa shogunate promoted peace by banning weapons from civilians. Peace was kept by the samurai. I hope everyone can recognize the parallels between samurai and jedi. Finally, the thought occurred to me that it would be very difficult to form an army out of thousands of distinct species, cultures and traditions. Chewie complains about the imperial ship’s controls not being designed for wookies! Imagine trying to design tanks and weapons and uniforms to fit all these different standards. In fact, only a clone army or a racist army could be effective. Even the rebellion has very, very few aliens in it. And yes an army of the republic would settle the TF blockade quickly. An army is much more effective than a diplomat...quicker, easier, more seductive than a diplomat...

In my



i like some of the stuff you said, but its invalidated by the fact that it was not explained in the movie.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:43 PM

There WERE armies. Everyone had a bloody army but the republic. The cloners had the capability to make an army at the drop of a hat.

As for the general topic, Helena, I'm sorry I didnt see this sooner because it is brilliant. The fallacies in Lucas' plot come out in a big way here.

The main thing that pisses me off is that you never ever get the impression that the good guys have a chance. As someone already said everything they do is completely futile, yet they dance and sing anyhow.

"Oh yay we defeated an entire planet crushing army with just two people, killed a sith, and saved the queen."

"Yeah, but luckily that was all part of the plan"

That just dosn't work. I would have liked to see a prequel where Palpatine's plans actually had to be rethought and altered because the Jedi were being sensible and fucking them up. Instead it appears that no matter what the fuck happens it's all part of his plot. There's no reason for a movie if there's no suspense at all. I mean by the end of ep1 Palpatine is in charge of a republic full of morons and the Jedi have no powers and are banking on a six year old child to save them because they heard something in a prophecy. The great leader of the resistance to the trade federation is a fourteen year old girl.

It aint that big of a leap of imagination to see how Palps can take over. The subsequent two movies are unnecessary. Palpatine can fix four trials of the surpreme court, fuck over the Jedi's minds, and his plans are in-fucking-fallible. Why do we need two more movies it's just beating a dead horse.

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:44 PM

there are thousands of species. each with a diffrent idea of how war should be fought. look at our own history and failed attempts to assimilate other cultures into one fighting machine. we can gather by the lack of a republic army that most of the cultures were passavists. it has been said that a space age society would have to be peaceful. not wasting their resources on war. some say war stimulates technology, thats true up to a point, then it comes down to either we abondon war, or we destroy ourselves. like in dr. strangelove.

and as for these answeres not being in the movies; i wrote these responses as i read the list. i didnt have to think about it. all the answers are there if you pay attention.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:51 PM

Most are passivists, you say. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, lets say that you are right. But still: We have a galaxy, with probably a few billion, conscious, active people. Even in times of peace, you should have a weapon. Its a GALAXY. I could understand if a country maybe didn't have an army, because the earth is in an unrealistic state of utopia, but this is a series of THOUSANDS of PLANETS. Can't you see, that it is ignorant, not to have an organized military? Can you not see that the Republic in the PT is pretty freaking stupid? The question of races/species is answered. There would be no problem in making suits, weapons, etc. designed for these specefic beings. ITS A GALAXY! ITS NOT THE EARTH! ITS A CRAPLOAD OF EARTH-LIKE PLANETS!

This post has been edited by StarWarsIsUs: 03 May 2005 - 06:53 PM

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#27 User is offline   xenduck Icon

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:13 PM

can you imagine wicket and sebulba charging in with jarjar and chewie? they couldnt carry the same weapons, or use the same armor, or drive the same vehicles. what good is an army like that? but wait, thats not even the point. physical carachteristics aside, im talking about ideaological diffrences. different cultures fight wars in different ways, and for different reasons; as demonstrated in the battle of naboo. but thats not the point either, if the republic didnt have an army then there was a reason for it. they could have a large 'police' force. or they could have a system similar to feudalism where the senate can call on non-passivist planets for military support. there could be a galactic gaurd, which wouldnt count as an army but be able to settle internal disputes. they could conscript in a crisis. what threats could an all encompassing republic face that would warrant a large standing army? the naboo were threatend and the naboo handled it. why should other planets be different? if one or a hundred planets decided to act aggressivly then there would be hundereds of thousands more that would turn against them, there would be no point in being militantly aggressive. and if tens of thousands of seditionist systems threatend the republic with a droid army then the senate would create an army to counter that increasing threat.
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Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:19 PM

GL still failed to show us this in the films. They are bad films and poorly excuted. The core of the plot has hope if written correctly, which it wasn't and executed properly, which it wasn't, with good, well directed actors, which it wasn't.
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Posted 04 May 2005 - 06:59 AM

QUOTE (xenduck @ May 4 2005, 03:13 AM)
can you imagine wicket and sebulba charging in with jarjar and chewie? they couldnt carry the same weapons, or use the same armor, or drive the same vehicles. what good is an army like that? but wait, thats not even the point. physical carachteristics aside, im talking about ideaological diffrences. different cultures fight wars in different ways, and for different reasons; as demonstrated in the battle of naboo. but thats not the point either, if the republic didnt have an army then there was a reason for it. they could have a large 'police' force. or they could have a system similar to feudalism where the senate can call on non-passivist planets for military support. there could be a galactic gaurd, which wouldnt count as an army but be able to settle internal disputes. they could conscript in a crisis. what threats could an all encompassing republic face that would warrant a large standing army? the naboo were threatend and the naboo handled it. why should other planets be different? if one or a hundred planets decided to act aggressivly then there would be hundereds of thousands more that would turn against them, there would be no point in being militantly aggressive. and if tens of thousands of seditionist systems threatend the republic with a droid army then the senate would create an army to counter that increasing threat.

1. This is an entire GALAXY; there must be hundreds and hundreds of planets/companies capable of producing species-specific armour, weapons etc. (and most of the aliens appear to be humanoid anyway).
2. An army would not have to contain representatives of every species in the entire Galaxy, and any cross-cultural difficulties should certainly not prevent them from trying to create an army in the first place! The Rebels in the OT were multicultural and appeared to be able to surmount these problems, so why couldn't the Republic?
3. I explained exactly what threats the Republic could face in my first post. We SEE some of the threats it could face in TPM and AotC: civil war and an NGO which starts getting too big for its boots. Besides, the Republic is not 'all-encompassing'; we see planets like Tatooine which are outside its boundaries. Enemies could come from the Outer Rim or the unknown space at the edge of the Galaxy (an example is the Mandalorians in KOTOR, who brought the Republic to its knees despite having a fraction of its men and resources).
4. The Naboo did not 'handle' the invasion; they simply gave in without a fight. Even when they did try to fight they got their arses kicked, and were only saved by a complete deus ex machina (Anakin accidentally destroying the droid ship).
5. You say agression by one party would be met with agression by thousands of others, and this should indeed be the case, but in TPM it simply doesn't happen. Where are Amidala's allies when Naboo is invaded? And besides, this would inevitably lead to a huge civil war, which is precisely what the Republic wants to avoid - which is why it needs its own army to enforce peace between warring systems.
6. So earlier you were claiming that it would be practically impossible to create an army, and now you say that the Republic should do so every time a threat comes up? Creating a galactic army is going to be a long and arduous process at the best of times - there's no way it makes sense to wait until you're in the midst of a crisis before you even start! As I pointed out, having no army means that in an emergency they have to rely on the Jedi - who simply don't have the numbers to handle the task - and on the clones, who they couldn't have predicted would be there in the first place. What's more, the clones turn out to have been created by the Sith and end up wiping out the Jedi on Palpatine's orders.

As for your other points:

QUOTE
2. We don’t know how this government is supposed to work. By the time of TPM, the republic is falling apart.
The blockade is illegal! That’s what the treaty was for, remember?
There should be clear procedures but the bureaucracy is on the pay role of the TF. And what ever procedures they had clearly “no longer functions”.
Who says they don’t have a regional department? Naboo is just one instance of the whole trade route dispute. Its no just one or two, all the outlying star systems are in danger.
Im sure there is a diplomatic core, palpatine says plainly that the chancellor should never have involved the jedi. It was a bad move.
Ok, im not sure how they’d enforce their laws without a military...maybe they do have a small military, or perhaps they rely on embargos and such.
Though we don’t see it, I assume the attempted murder was reported as soon as they reached coruscant. Communications were jammed. And then it was no longer safe to send messages.

1. If the blockade is illegal then why does the Senate even have to debate it? They should be acting immediately! The treaty was to legalise the invasion, not the blockade (though how on earth you 'legalise' an invasion through a treaty that was clearly signed under duress is beyond me).
2. How can the bureaucracy be 'on the payroll' of the TF? The bureaucracy should be on the payroll of the Republic! Besides, the Republic has been around for a long time - these 'procedures' must have been written long before the TF crisis ever came up, and in any case they should have been set out by the politicians who came up with the Republic, not by bureaucrats. (In case you're not aware, the term 'bureaucrats' refers to civil servants, not politicians.)
3. Saying that Naboo is just 'one instance' is a flat-out lie. NO threats to any planets other than Naboo are ever mentioned. Taxes on some other trade routes (note that it never says 'all') may be in dispute, but I'd hardly call that a galactic crisis.
4. So why did they involve the Jedi if there was no need to do so?
5. Naboo's communications may have been jammed but that doesn't mean the Jedi's were. Why didn't the Republic send someone to investigate as soon as they lost contact with the Jedi? Come to that, if it was such a crisis, why didn't they send out a much larger contingent in the first place? And if the attempted murder was reported when they got back to Coruscant, why the hell was the Senate still faffing around rather than actually doing something about the TF?

QUOTE
3. The TF has its own planet, but I imagine they ‘own’ several others, making their planetary name no longer sufficient, so they gave their confederation of planets a new name. As such, they have every right to be in the senate.

And you get this from where, exactly? I don't remember anyone mentioning this in the film. Interest groups should not be allowed their own planet - that's like giving Greenpeace its own country so that it can have a seat at the UN.

QUOTE
4. Naboo has a volunteer army. They lived under the assumption that the republic could protect them. In another time the republic could have but not with so much corruption. When amidala realizes this, she seeks out an army.

Why did they assume the Republic could protect them when it didn't have an army of its own? And Amidala did not 'seek out' an army; she was opposed to its creation all along.

QUOTE
5. The senate never got a chance to review the evidence. The TF objected immediately to the accusations and a bureaucrat whispered something troubling in valorum’s ear. Then before evidence could be brought forward, amidala moved for the vote against valorum at palpatine’s behest.

The whole thing is entirely ludicrous. What's the point of having an emergency Senate session if you're not going to be allowed to hear any evidence? Amidala should have explained what happened immediately on arriving on Coruscant, and the information should have been passed on to the delegates at the start of the debate so that they'd have some idea what was going on. Real debates have motions clearly set out in written form before the actual debate takes place.

Besides, as I said, none of this should have required a debate in the first place. The Republic should have clear emergency procedures for situations such as this, and they should have been enforced - militarily - the moment Naboo's communications were cut off.

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6. Valorum was mired by baseless accusations of corruptions. It shows in the screenplay that palpatine was behind this. Maybe ten years ago valorum was popular, but it seems everyone was ready for a change.

If the accusations were 'baseless' how could they be used as grounds for his removal? Presumably you'd need some actual evidence before this could take place. It should not be possible to remove the Chancellor in this way, and besides, if the stalling was really down to official Republic procedures then how could Palpatine make any difference?

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7. Obi-wan wants to please his master. He’s trusting his faith in qui-gon and qui-gon’s faith in anakin. Ben tells us that he thought he could train anakin as well as yoda. Obi-wan had qui-gon’s defiance in him, it was the death of him.

Except that he didn't think so. He never wanted to train Anakin; he only agreed to do so because Qui-Gon asked him to - and it was still against his own better judgement.

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8. We only hear mace’s and yoda’s opinions, and they are not the only jedi on the council. Yoda says he personally does not agree with the training. I got the impression he was the only one against it becuase then he says “agree with you the council does.” is yoda speaking for the whole council when he says no, or when he says yes?

No, Obi-Wan insists that he will train Anakin and Yoda says 'Agree, the Council does'. As in, 'we agree to let you train him'. If a majority of the Council were in favour of training him, why was the final decision against it? And why does Obi-Wan say that 'they all sense it (that Anakin is dangerous) so why can't you?'

You admit to being 'a student of nothing', xenduck, and believe me: it shows. Do not try to convince me that any of this stuff makes sense: it won't work. You can make up lame excuses for Lucas till the cows come home, but it still won't convince me to take this sorry excuse for 'politics' seriously.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

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Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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Posted 04 May 2005 - 07:01 AM

Anyway, here's Part 3. Warning: This part contains SPOILERS! If you’re trying to remain spoiler-free up to the film’s release, DO NOT READ!

As the film hasn’t come out yet, I can’t be sure the things I describe below are 100% accurate. However, they are based on plot and dialogue spoilers from fairly reputable sources.

Part 3: RotS

1. If Anakin had paid attention to what Dooku said.
Dooku pretends to kidnap Palpatine, presumably to lure the Jedi into a trap. He ends up fighting with Anakin and getting his hands chopped off, whereupon Palpatine encourages Anakin to kill him. According to a dialogue spoiler, Dooku then says something like “But you promised me amnesty!”

If Anakin had stopped to think for a second, it might have struck him that there was something rather strange going on there. Why would a kidnap victim promise his captor amnesty, unless he thought he was going to be released – which clearly wasn’t the case? At the very least it should have given Anakin pause for thought, and prompted him to ask Dooku what he meant. But no, he just goes right ahead and kills Dooku (in cold blood, I should point out, while the guy is defenceless and begging for mercy).

2. If the Jedi hadn’t appointed Anakin as Palpatine’s bodyguard.
The relationship between Anakin and Palpatine is unhealthily close as it is. The last thing the Jedi should do is give Anakin an assignment that would cause them to spend most of their time together. Besides, shouldn’t such an important mission be assigned to a senior Jedi?

3. If the Jedi didn’t allow political appointments to the Council.
Anakin is apparently given a seat on the Jedi Council at Palpatine’s request. What. The. Hell? If there’s one organisation in the whole of the Republic that should be absolutely free of political interference, it’s the Jedi. Why are they allowing a politician to dictate appointments to their main decision-making body?

What makes it worse is that going by his behaviour in AotC, Anakin has the emotional and intellectual maturity of your average twelve-year-old – regressing to pre-school level in moments of extreme stress. He’s not fit for a seat on a junior school sports committee, never mind the Jedi Council. What in God’s name were they thinking?

4. If Anakin weren’t so mind-bogglingly vain and arrogant.
Supposedly, one of the reasons Anakin turns against the Jedi is that they don’t make him a Jedi Master in addition to giving him a Council seat. Excuse me?!! Anakin is barely out of his teens; he only finished his apprenticeship a couple of years earlier. He doesn’t have anything like the experience or maturity you’d think a Council member would need – yet instead of being grateful for this patently undeserved honour, he has the bloody nerve to complain that they don’t make him a Master as well! This is equivalent to me being offered a Cabinet post by Tony Blair on completing my degree, only to start complaining because he didn’t also award me a CBE.

5.If Anakin would think with his head rather than his genitals for once in his life.
Anakin agrees to become a Sith after he dreams of Padme dying in childbirth, and Palpatine claims to have found a way to save her life. Now let’s think about this for a moment: Palpatine has just confessed to being a Sith, which means that he’s been lying to Anakin, the Jedi and everyone in the Republic for more than a decade. He is ultimately responsible for the Trade Federation crisis, the Separatist crisis and the attempts on both Padme and Anakin’s lives. What’s more, Anakin must surely have been constantly lectured about the dangers of the Sith and the Dark Side throughout his apprenticeship. Yet he simply decides to trust Palpatine, just like that, without even asking what this miracle cure could be or why no one else had ever discovered it!

6. If Obi-Wan had finished Anakin off after their duel.
It seems that Obi-Wan prefers to leave his old ‘friend’ to burn to death, slowly and agonisingly, rather than finishing him off quickly and cleanly with a lightsaber. Utter scumbag as he is, not even Anakin deserves to die like that. As it happens, this cruel and completely un-Jedi-like act will allow Anakin to survive as Vader, hastening the destruction of the Jedi Order and prolonging the Galaxy’s suffering for decades.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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