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#16 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:35 AM

Did you ignore the names DARTH VADER and THE EMPEROR. We see the story of darth vader coming to an end, the star wars saga is his story now it is over. And palpatine one of the most important characters the, one who has been pulling the strings since episode 1 the REAL bad guy in the star wars saga. Now we see him die. 2 chacters from the biginning die.. Isent that enough for you!

This post has been edited by Nicholas_Skywalker: 28 April 2005 - 06:38 AM

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#17 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:48 AM

You two! Ernesttomlinson just wrote a very good relevant post and you just derailed it!

Ernesttomlinson, your point about the 'Star Wars' website is an apt one. I've thought the same thing. Take General Grievous for instance. He's a great example.

This is a character from a movie we haven't even seen yet and already we're hearing gushers going on about how "badass" he is, etc etc. And there'll all getting it from the official website.

You're also right about the fake history for all the characters. I'm like you on another matter... I don't even know who all of these stupid characters are.

For instance, I didn't even realise that Bail Organa was in Episode II until Chefelf pointed it out. I suspect this may have to do with the fact that his name wasn't even mentioned once.

So how was I supposed who this guy was and what he did during the film? I guess I should have looked at the website. Silly me... I naively thought the movie would have made these things clear.
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#18 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:48 AM

Nicholas, Vader and the Emperor are bad guys. Both their deaths were thoroughly deserved; Vader's death was the only way he could attempt to redeem himself, whereas the Emperor was way beyond redemption. I'm talking about the deaths of good, likeable characters - something that would have a real impact and remind us that not all the good guys can end up living 'happily ever after'. That kind of ending is only suitable for children's fairy tales.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

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Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#19 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:54 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Apr 28 2005, 06:48 AM)
Nicholas, Vader and the Emperor are bad guys. Both their deaths were thoroughly deserved; Vader's death was the only way he could attempt to redeem himself, whereas the Emperor was way beyond redemption. I'm talking about the deaths of good, likeable characters - something that would have a real impact and remind us that not all the good guys can end up living 'happily ever after'. That kind of ending is only suitable for children's fairy tales.

ahmm all during episode 1 he was a good character and most of episode II his a good character and about half of episode III his a good character! and the end of rotj he turns back into the good character he was and becomes one with the force and becomes a jedi ghost.
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#20 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:57 AM

QUOTE (Just your average movie goer @ Apr 28 2005, 06:48 AM)
You two!  Ernesttomlinson just wrote a very good relevant post and you just derailed it! 

Ernesttomlinson, your point about the 'Star Wars' website is an apt one.  I've thought the same thing.  Take General Grievous for instance.  He's a great example.

This is a character from a movie we haven't even seen yet and already we're hearing gushers going on about how "badass" he is, etc etc.  And there'll all getting it from the official website.

You're also right about the fake history for all the characters.  I'm like you on another matter... I don't even know who all of these stupid characters are. 

For instance, I didn't even realise that Bail Organa was in Episode II until Chefelf pointed it out.  I suspect this may have to do with the fact that his name wasn't even mentioned once.

So how was I supposed who this guy was and what he did during the film?  I guess I should have looked at the website.  Silly me... I naively thought the movie would have made these things clear.
Your saying how people are sticking up for grevious and calling him a badass when they havent seen the movie there "gushing" in your opinion. But why when I come here allmost everyone (im not sure about you but most of the people ive seen) are calling stupid and a crappy character!! they say he sucks and they havent seen the movie yet. I saw we havent seen the movie so lets wait and then decide. Im sure anyway how cool he is people are still gonna bash him on this forum.
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#21 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:03 AM

QUOTE (Nicholas_Skywalker @ Apr 28 2005, 12:54 PM)
ahmm all during episode 1 he was a good character and most of episode II his a good character and about half of episode III his a good character! and the end of rotj he turns back into the good character he was and becomes one with the force and becomes a jedi ghost.

RotJ was made before the Prequels, so it makes no difference. Vader was a bad guy for 95% of the OT; at the end he's a redeemed villain, not a hero. His death is moving but it's not the same as the death of an actual good guy.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#22 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Apr 28 2005, 07:03 AM)
RotJ was made before the Prequels, so it makes no difference. Vader was a bad guy for 95% of the OT; at the end he's a redeemed villain, not a hero. His death is moving but it's not the same as the death of an actual good guy.

Yes he is a hero, he brought balance to the force he killed EVIL. In star wars the emperor is the EVIL of the universe and he destroyed it.
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#23 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE (Nicholas_Skywalker @ Apr 28 2005, 01:35 PM)
Yes he is a hero, he brought balance to the force he killed EVIL. In star wars the emperor is the EVIL of the universe and he destroyed it.

Look, I will say this one more time: All that crap about 'bringing balance to the Force' was NOT IN THE OT. RotJ was made BEFORE the Prequels, so any argument from that point of view is moot. And the Vader of the OT was not a hero; he was a torturer and mass murderer who'd blown up planets and slaughtered thousands of people. Despite his deathbed repentence, there is absolutely no way he can be regarded as a 'hero'.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#24 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Apr 28 2005, 07:41 AM)
Look, I will say this one more time: All that crap about 'bringing balance to the Force' was NOT IN THE OT. RotJ was made BEFORE the Prequels, so any argument from that point of view is moot. And the Vader of the OT was not a hero; he was a torturer and mass murderer who'd blown up planets and slaughtered thousands of people. Despite his deathbed repentence, there is absolutely no way he can be regarded as a 'hero'.
Thats why lucas has said you have to watch the sage from 1-6 to fully understand the story. And it was clear that the emperor was the EVIL in star wars since the OT. It was obvious he was responsible for vaders turn to the dark side and the bad things that have happend. And vader killed him so that makes him a hero. And i will add a true story to this one that all fellow australians would be aware of. Ned kelly a murderor a man and his gang that murdered police and stole from banks is considred a hero. Foreginers may not know who ned kelly is but every australian does and in school were brought up to see him as a hero evan though he was a murderor.

This post has been edited by Nicholas_Skywalker: 28 April 2005 - 07:47 AM

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#25 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:56 AM

QUOTE (Nicholas_Skywalker @ Apr 28 2005, 01:45 PM)
Thats why lucas has said you have to watch the sage from 1-6 to fully understand the story. And it was clear that the emperor was the EVIL in star wars since the OT. It was obvious he was responsible for vaders turn to the dark side and the bad things that have happend. And vader killed him so that makes him a hero. And i will add a true story to this one that all fellow australians would be aware of. Ned kelly a murderor a man and his gang that murdered police and stole from banks is considred a hero. Foreginers may not know who ned kelly is but every australian does and in school were brought up to see him as a hero evan though he was a murderor.

None of this changes the fact that during the OT, Vader was a villain. And frankly, nothing I've seen of his behaviour in the Prequels has done anything to alter my opinion of him - in fact, if anything they've made me less sympathetic towards him. Anakin was described in the OT as a 'good man'; in the Prequels he's just an emotionally retarded whinging brat.

By the way, I do know who Ned Kelly was (our equivalent would be someone like Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber) - and the fact that someone like that could be considered a 'hero' is utterly pathetic. People who rob banks and murder other people are criminals, not heros. Are you seriously trying to defend Vader's behaviour?
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#26 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Apr 28 2005, 07:56 AM)
None of this changes the fact that during the OT, Vader was a villain. And frankly, nothing I've seen of his behaviour in the Prequels has done anything to alter my opinion of him - in fact, if anything they've made me less sympathetic towards him. Anakin was described in the OT as a 'good man'; in the Prequels he's just an emotionally retarded whinging brat.

By the way, I do know who Ned Kelly was (our equivalent would be someone like Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber) - and the fact that someone like that could be considered a 'hero' is utterly pathetic. People who rob banks and murder other people are criminals, not heros. Are you seriously trying to defend Vader's behaviour?

I was just showing evidence that situations like this (obviously not as bad) has happend and they have become hero's. I dont see ned kelly as a hero though, there was a movie recently about him and it was such bullshit. It really made him look like a good guy but in real life he was no more then a common thief and murderor though in the movie his like robin hood "steals from the rich and gives to the poor" its bullshit.
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#27 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:02 AM

QUOTE (Nicholas_Skywalker @ Apr 28 2005, 02:01 PM)
I was just showing evidence that situations like this (obviously not as bad) has happend and they have become hero's.  I dont see ned kelly as a hero though, there was a movie recently about him and it was such bullshit. It really made him look like a good guy but in real life he was no more then a common thief and murderor though in the movie his like robin hood "steals from the rich and gives to the poor" its bullshit.

Precisely.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#28 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:06 AM

Helena I have a question, are you racist blushing.gif you seemed like you really wanted lando to die, is it because his black? blink.gif and you want blacks to die? unsure.gif you cant stand them is that it? whistling.gif
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#29 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE (Nicholas_Skywalker @ Apr 28 2005, 02:06 PM)
Helena I have a question, are you racist  blushing.gif  you seemed like you really wanted lando to die, is it because his black?  blink.gif  and you want blacks to die?  unsure.gif you cant stand them is that it?  whistling.gif

OK, you know what? With that last post you just lost any remaining smidgen of respect I had for you. I'm not going to discuss this or anything else with you any more. FUCK OFF.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
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#30 User is offline   Nicholas_Skywalker Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Helena @ Apr 28 2005, 08:15 AM)
OK, you know what? With that last post you just lost any remaining smidgen of respect I had for you. I'm not going to discuss this or anything else with you any more. FUCK OFF.

is it because im black?
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