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This is from a guy who loved TPM at first then later changed his mind and realized how dull it was, and sorta/kinda liked AOTC. He's a big Star Wars fan but he's not a gusher. I took this review pretty positively, if anything it got my hopes up. Here you go:
SPOILERS
Kevin Smith ROTS review
Star Wars Fan Convention
Kevin Smith reviews ROTS guy who made Clerks and Chasing Amy
#1
Storm Shadow 
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 11:25 AM
MultiQuote
#2
CowboyCurtis
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 11:43 AM
I'll wait until things have cooled down on this film and Kevin has been allowed some time to reflect on the films, and then I'll read his opinion. This is a knee-jerk reaction. I had the same reaction when I walked out of AOTC, but knew something was still wrong.
We'll see, Stormy, we'll see....
We'll see, Stormy, we'll see....
Flying Ferret
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
#3
StarWarsIsUs
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 12:12 PM
Wow. He seems to really like it. Not very inspiring, though, because I know it will probably be crap.
#4
snaithbert
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 01:49 PM
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah.
My feeling here is that you're not going to hear Kevin Smith say anything truly negative about Star Wars, ever.
Reason being- he's not an idiot.
He's a director who works in Hollywood and if there's one truism in Hollywood, it's that you never shit where you eat.
Mr. Smith has the rep for being a pariah and being outspoken, but the truth is he never really says or does anything that a billion other people haven't said already (and thus he doesn't run the risk of truly offending anyone). If "Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones" hadn't been totally trashed by the critics and audiences, Mr. Smith would never have said a negative word about them. But because the shitiness of those movies is basically general knowledge, he can go ahead and agree without worrying about standing out too much, etc. He's smart enough to know that he needs to keep up his "hollywood outsider" persona for his fans, but also smart enough to know that he can't truly speak out against people like George Lucas without paying deeply for it.
He needs George Lucas a lot more than George Lucas needs him. As such, his glowing review of ROTS doesn't really surprise me. He's probably been waiting for the chance to send a love letter like this to Lucas since 1999, but he knew if he openly kissed Lucas' butt before now, his fans would decry him as a hypocrite, etc.
This being his last chance, he must have decided that now it's safe to proclaim Lucas as a genius without upsetting his fans. It's the last movie, plus it's guaranteed to be better than the last two (because it couldn't be worse).
I've enjoyed Mr. Smith's movies in the past (sort of) but if you think he's not in the hip pocket of the Hollywood elite- think again. He needs to keep working as much as any Hollywood director you HAVEN'T heard of. You don't ensure a long and happy career by openly trashing one of the most powerful people in Hollywood.
My beef is that while I didn't mind it when he kept his mouth relatively shut about Star Wars, the fact that he's now openly praising it really makes me sick. Makes me wonder if maybe George promised him a Darth Vader shaped pool or something.
In any case, I wouldn't put too much stock in Mr. Smith's opinion. In the grand scheme of things, he's much more a part of the problem than he is a part of the solution. Also I must add that if he's NOT just paying lip service to George and he truly does think ROTS is a great movie- then he's even more untalented than he's been accused of. I actually HOPE he's phoning in his review, because the alternative is truly frightening.
My feeling here is that you're not going to hear Kevin Smith say anything truly negative about Star Wars, ever.
Reason being- he's not an idiot.
He's a director who works in Hollywood and if there's one truism in Hollywood, it's that you never shit where you eat.
Mr. Smith has the rep for being a pariah and being outspoken, but the truth is he never really says or does anything that a billion other people haven't said already (and thus he doesn't run the risk of truly offending anyone). If "Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones" hadn't been totally trashed by the critics and audiences, Mr. Smith would never have said a negative word about them. But because the shitiness of those movies is basically general knowledge, he can go ahead and agree without worrying about standing out too much, etc. He's smart enough to know that he needs to keep up his "hollywood outsider" persona for his fans, but also smart enough to know that he can't truly speak out against people like George Lucas without paying deeply for it.
He needs George Lucas a lot more than George Lucas needs him. As such, his glowing review of ROTS doesn't really surprise me. He's probably been waiting for the chance to send a love letter like this to Lucas since 1999, but he knew if he openly kissed Lucas' butt before now, his fans would decry him as a hypocrite, etc.
This being his last chance, he must have decided that now it's safe to proclaim Lucas as a genius without upsetting his fans. It's the last movie, plus it's guaranteed to be better than the last two (because it couldn't be worse).
I've enjoyed Mr. Smith's movies in the past (sort of) but if you think he's not in the hip pocket of the Hollywood elite- think again. He needs to keep working as much as any Hollywood director you HAVEN'T heard of. You don't ensure a long and happy career by openly trashing one of the most powerful people in Hollywood.
My beef is that while I didn't mind it when he kept his mouth relatively shut about Star Wars, the fact that he's now openly praising it really makes me sick. Makes me wonder if maybe George promised him a Darth Vader shaped pool or something.
In any case, I wouldn't put too much stock in Mr. Smith's opinion. In the grand scheme of things, he's much more a part of the problem than he is a part of the solution. Also I must add that if he's NOT just paying lip service to George and he truly does think ROTS is a great movie- then he's even more untalented than he's been accused of. I actually HOPE he's phoning in his review, because the alternative is truly frightening.
#6
ernesttomlinson
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 03:08 PM
I think your reading of Smith is close to dead on, snaithbert. It's worth remembering that his last couple of movies have been packed with big-name Hollywood talent; Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are just run-of-the-mill star actors now (well, Damon's a bit more talented than most); the days of Clerks are long over.
On the other hand, doesn't Lucas like to make a big deal about he's really outside of Hollywood? Does Lucas really move in Hollywood social circles? I imagine him spending all of his days holed up in Marin County, surrounded by sycophants and looking at computer animation eighteen hours a day. How badly would Smith really hurt himself by dumping on Lucas? Considerably less, I suspect, then if he dumped on (say) Jerry Bruckheimer.
On the other hand, doesn't Lucas like to make a big deal about he's really outside of Hollywood? Does Lucas really move in Hollywood social circles? I imagine him spending all of his days holed up in Marin County, surrounded by sycophants and looking at computer animation eighteen hours a day. How badly would Smith really hurt himself by dumping on Lucas? Considerably less, I suspect, then if he dumped on (say) Jerry Bruckheimer.
#7
snaithbert
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 03:49 PM
My feeling is that as removed as Lucas is, you still don't want to mess with him.
Jerry Bruckheimer is big but in the end he's still just a producer. He can't push studio people around the way Lucas can. Not that Lucas DOES, but he's very powerful and I think people know not to piss him off if they want ILM for their movies or THX sound or any of the other stuff that Lucas calls the shots on, etc.
Lucas does seem like a reserved guy, but he's got a lot of power. He's so powerful that he doesn't HAVE to push people around, because they just automatically steer clear of him if they can help it.
Ironically it's Lucas' success with Star Wars that helped insure that NO other producer or director will ever become the next Lucas, because the studios now keep a tight grip on their projects and make sure that they own ALL the rights at the end of the day. George Lucas can push them around, but the studios have made damn sure that that situation never happens again.
I think that's the difference between someone like Jerry Bruckheimer and someone like George Lucas. Bruckhiemer NEEDS Hollywood to keep working. Lucas doesn't. Not only does he NOT need Hollywood, THEY need HIM.
Also I may be wrong about this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Lucas doesn't care for criticism very much. If he did he might actually be willing to accept some and understand that sometimes criticism really helps in the long run, etc. Lucas plays all smiley and friendly, but I have a strong suspicion that if you piss him off, he'll make life really difficult for you. Not directly, but probably via his connections or one of his drones, etc. No one wants to piss Lucas off, so I'm sure if Lucas suddeny decided he didn't like Kevin Smith, Mr. Smith's opportunities would mysteriously begin drying up, etc.
Lucas does not like the world around him and he's done everything he can to make his own world, one that he thinks is ideal. When people come along that dare to announce that the emperor has no clothes, they're almost ALWAYS people that have no power or influence in Hollywood. Because if they DID have power- they might lose it by criticizing Lucas. They might not- but why take the risk? Why not go around the sleeping bear, rather than over it? That's why I'm guessing Kevin Smith is just acting in the best interest of his career when he heaps praise on ROTS. What gauls me is the fact that before Mr. Smith just went around the bear- now it's like he's capturing humans and presenting them for the bear, so the bear can maul them. And the whole time he's smiling and going "oh my god you guys will love being mauled by this bear!!!!"
I preferred the old Kevin Smith, who just coasted on his (slightly ill founded) rep for being a rebel who bucked the system. It was pretty much bullcrap, but at least he seemed LESS like a soulless robot than he does when he pays lip service to people like George Lucas.
Again I say, if you're not going to be part of the solution- at LEAST don't be part of the problem.
Okay, hopping off the soapbox nox. Sorry for rambling.
Jerry Bruckheimer is big but in the end he's still just a producer. He can't push studio people around the way Lucas can. Not that Lucas DOES, but he's very powerful and I think people know not to piss him off if they want ILM for their movies or THX sound or any of the other stuff that Lucas calls the shots on, etc.
Lucas does seem like a reserved guy, but he's got a lot of power. He's so powerful that he doesn't HAVE to push people around, because they just automatically steer clear of him if they can help it.
Ironically it's Lucas' success with Star Wars that helped insure that NO other producer or director will ever become the next Lucas, because the studios now keep a tight grip on their projects and make sure that they own ALL the rights at the end of the day. George Lucas can push them around, but the studios have made damn sure that that situation never happens again.
I think that's the difference between someone like Jerry Bruckheimer and someone like George Lucas. Bruckhiemer NEEDS Hollywood to keep working. Lucas doesn't. Not only does he NOT need Hollywood, THEY need HIM.
Also I may be wrong about this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Lucas doesn't care for criticism very much. If he did he might actually be willing to accept some and understand that sometimes criticism really helps in the long run, etc. Lucas plays all smiley and friendly, but I have a strong suspicion that if you piss him off, he'll make life really difficult for you. Not directly, but probably via his connections or one of his drones, etc. No one wants to piss Lucas off, so I'm sure if Lucas suddeny decided he didn't like Kevin Smith, Mr. Smith's opportunities would mysteriously begin drying up, etc.
Lucas does not like the world around him and he's done everything he can to make his own world, one that he thinks is ideal. When people come along that dare to announce that the emperor has no clothes, they're almost ALWAYS people that have no power or influence in Hollywood. Because if they DID have power- they might lose it by criticizing Lucas. They might not- but why take the risk? Why not go around the sleeping bear, rather than over it? That's why I'm guessing Kevin Smith is just acting in the best interest of his career when he heaps praise on ROTS. What gauls me is the fact that before Mr. Smith just went around the bear- now it's like he's capturing humans and presenting them for the bear, so the bear can maul them. And the whole time he's smiling and going "oh my god you guys will love being mauled by this bear!!!!"
I preferred the old Kevin Smith, who just coasted on his (slightly ill founded) rep for being a rebel who bucked the system. It was pretty much bullcrap, but at least he seemed LESS like a soulless robot than he does when he pays lip service to people like George Lucas.
Again I say, if you're not going to be part of the solution- at LEAST don't be part of the problem.
Okay, hopping off the soapbox nox. Sorry for rambling.
#8
ernesttomlinson
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 06:39 PM
The point about Lucas's Hollywood influence through ILM is a good one and it should have occurred to me. And you're probably right; "independent" that he is, Lucas must have a lot of strings he can pull.
Those who have read biographies about Lucas know better than I am what his personality is like. I do know that he takes criticism poorly. Here's one example:
http://dir.salon.com...ucas/index.html
And we do know that he's been churning out a lot of self-justification both about his new movies and what he's been doing to his old ones. That in particular seems almost vindictive. Defending the prequels to the death is understandable at least for mercenary reasons; LucasFilm has poured a lot of money into making them, they want to recoup their investment, and so of course Lucas is going to claim they're works of genius. But not rereleasing the "ordinary edition" Star Wars movies? What does Lucas get out of that?
I wonder, after Marcia Lucas split from him, did he ever date anyone else? I don't say this in order to score a cheap point ("heh heh Lucas isn't getting any huh huh") but only to point out that Lucas doesn't seem to have any real family life that I've heard of. Yeah, he's adopted kids, but where's the wife / girlfriend / same-sex companion / anyone other than Lucas himself? Even the notorious hermit and control freak Stanley Kubrick was married (and quite happily, too.)
Those who have read biographies about Lucas know better than I am what his personality is like. I do know that he takes criticism poorly. Here's one example:
http://dir.salon.com...ucas/index.html
And we do know that he's been churning out a lot of self-justification both about his new movies and what he's been doing to his old ones. That in particular seems almost vindictive. Defending the prequels to the death is understandable at least for mercenary reasons; LucasFilm has poured a lot of money into making them, they want to recoup their investment, and so of course Lucas is going to claim they're works of genius. But not rereleasing the "ordinary edition" Star Wars movies? What does Lucas get out of that?
I wonder, after Marcia Lucas split from him, did he ever date anyone else? I don't say this in order to score a cheap point ("heh heh Lucas isn't getting any huh huh") but only to point out that Lucas doesn't seem to have any real family life that I've heard of. Yeah, he's adopted kids, but where's the wife / girlfriend / same-sex companion / anyone other than Lucas himself? Even the notorious hermit and control freak Stanley Kubrick was married (and quite happily, too.)
#9
Jordan
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 07:11 PM
THis guy has NO IDEA how to review a film. He just gave away scenes.
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#10
civilian_number_two
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 08:34 PM
Kevin Smith is a lousy director, a bad writer, and a shit movie reviewer.
However, I don't agree he's afraid of Lucas, or that he's sucking up to Hollywood. Lucas has no power in the Hollywood "old boys' network;" he dropped out of the DGC and seems to alienate everyone he works with. After ROTS I will be surprised if he makes anything again that anyone bothers to watch.
I think if Smith says he like ROTS, he really like it. He trashed Lord of the Rings, so wouldn't that have been pissing on Hollywood? As little respect as i have for Smith, I think he has the integrity to render an honest opinion, and the whole Affleck/Damon thing has nothing to do with being a Hollywood player: he and Affleck were friends before GOOD WILL HUNTING, and a lot of young actors liked CLERKS, and will jump at an opportunity to be in a Silent Bob move.
However, I don't agree he's afraid of Lucas, or that he's sucking up to Hollywood. Lucas has no power in the Hollywood "old boys' network;" he dropped out of the DGC and seems to alienate everyone he works with. After ROTS I will be surprised if he makes anything again that anyone bothers to watch.
I think if Smith says he like ROTS, he really like it. He trashed Lord of the Rings, so wouldn't that have been pissing on Hollywood? As little respect as i have for Smith, I think he has the integrity to render an honest opinion, and the whole Affleck/Damon thing has nothing to do with being a Hollywood player: he and Affleck were friends before GOOD WILL HUNTING, and a lot of young actors liked CLERKS, and will jump at an opportunity to be in a Silent Bob move.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
#11
barend
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 09:43 PM
i'm ashamed to admit it... but some of those scenes sounded kind of cool...
I still think, that in the grand scheme of things this movie will suck...
(but not as badly as 1 & 2).
and i'd like to apologise if i'm a little buzzed by it, straight after seeing it, when i tell you what i think (assuming that happens)....
but i am going to see this film a good 15 hours before anyone in the states will... I'll start a post (but it will be short as i will have to go to bed quite soon after seeing it, as it will be like 2:30am on a thursday) to tell you all what i honestly think...
i think most of the things that will annoy me will set in over the corse of the day after i've semi rested...
so... yeah...
I still think, that in the grand scheme of things this movie will suck...
(but not as badly as 1 & 2).
and i'd like to apologise if i'm a little buzzed by it, straight after seeing it, when i tell you what i think (assuming that happens)....
but i am going to see this film a good 15 hours before anyone in the states will... I'll start a post (but it will be short as i will have to go to bed quite soon after seeing it, as it will be like 2:30am on a thursday) to tell you all what i honestly think...
i think most of the things that will annoy me will set in over the corse of the day after i've semi rested...
so... yeah...
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#12
CowboyCurtis
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Posted 27 April 2005 - 11:50 PM
I wonder, after Marcia Lucas split from him, did he ever date anyone else?
Not trying to change the topic, but Lucas did date Linda Ronstadt for a while, even directed one of her videos.
As for Kevin Smith. I'm not sure what I think of Kevin Smith. I like Clerks. It's his best film, if a bit amateurish, and I like 10% of "Chasing Amy," and that's only because it's about comic books. "Dogma" has some funny moments, but anyway... my point.... I agree with C#2, it sounds like Smith's honest opinion about the film, but I question his abilities as a story teller himself. I'm probably being rather unkind.
Here's an interesting link I pulled from the basher's sanctuary. Kevin admits to being a "gusher" but he makes a lot of basher points which is very, very amusing....
http://www.empireonl.../transcript.asp
Not trying to change the topic, but Lucas did date Linda Ronstadt for a while, even directed one of her videos.
As for Kevin Smith. I'm not sure what I think of Kevin Smith. I like Clerks. It's his best film, if a bit amateurish, and I like 10% of "Chasing Amy," and that's only because it's about comic books. "Dogma" has some funny moments, but anyway... my point.... I agree with C#2, it sounds like Smith's honest opinion about the film, but I question his abilities as a story teller himself. I'm probably being rather unkind.
Here's an interesting link I pulled from the basher's sanctuary. Kevin admits to being a "gusher" but he makes a lot of basher points which is very, very amusing....
http://www.empireonl.../transcript.asp
Flying Ferret
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
#13
Nicholas_Skywalker
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 04:14 AM
Kevins not a basher and his not a gusher... his a fan like most people.
#15
Just another wretched fan
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 10:06 PM
i like Simon's comment. He should be a regular poster here.
Simon: And who came out of the cinema in 1977 and said 'that was really good, but if there'd just been a dinosaur in the background with a Jawa hanging off it, it would have been brilliant'? Nobody. And then there's the whole Greedo thing as well. When you think about him doing that, he basically robbed the scene, the defining moment…
Kevin: He emasculated Han Solo. Because Han Solo was just like a superpimp who went 'FUCK IT!' And then all of a sudden they reined it back in to the point where it was like, 'oop! Defence!'
Edgar: Yeah. You were saying that it fucked up the end of Star Wars as well.
Simon: what it does is it takes away the set-up that Han Solo is so self-sufficient that will kill someone before he gets killed. And he's willing to fly away and leave Luke at the end. Without that, you lose that whole arc and Lucas stole that from us… and DAMN HIM!
Empire: Hey, I'm trying to bring down the negative vibes…
Simon: And that awful fucking Jabba bit, just because they couldn't figure out how to get him past his tail, they made him walk over him. That's like going up to Don Corleone and going 'whey hey hey! [mimes pinching cheeks] You wouldn't do that to the scariest gangster in the whole galaxy. That's just ridiculous.
Simon: And who came out of the cinema in 1977 and said 'that was really good, but if there'd just been a dinosaur in the background with a Jawa hanging off it, it would have been brilliant'? Nobody. And then there's the whole Greedo thing as well. When you think about him doing that, he basically robbed the scene, the defining moment…
Kevin: He emasculated Han Solo. Because Han Solo was just like a superpimp who went 'FUCK IT!' And then all of a sudden they reined it back in to the point where it was like, 'oop! Defence!'
Edgar: Yeah. You were saying that it fucked up the end of Star Wars as well.
Simon: what it does is it takes away the set-up that Han Solo is so self-sufficient that will kill someone before he gets killed. And he's willing to fly away and leave Luke at the end. Without that, you lose that whole arc and Lucas stole that from us… and DAMN HIM!
Empire: Hey, I'm trying to bring down the negative vibes…
Simon: And that awful fucking Jabba bit, just because they couldn't figure out how to get him past his tail, they made him walk over him. That's like going up to Don Corleone and going 'whey hey hey! [mimes pinching cheeks] You wouldn't do that to the scariest gangster in the whole galaxy. That's just ridiculous.