[Rhubarb]

One of the worst things the Catholic Church has done is convince people, most notably in parts of Africa, that condoms do not help prevent AIDS, and that they actively help to spread the disease. It's like the refusal to allow birth control, abortions, or even sexual education to young women... 'if we don't acknowledge the problem, then the problem doesn't exist'. Except in this case, the problem is worse than unwanted pregnancy - how does 25 million AIDS-infected people sound to you? All through the Church's prejudism (and in some cases, enforcement of that prejudism through outright lies) against a thin rubber sheath.

"The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk." Source.

"Congo's Kinshasa Archbishop Dominique Bulamatari said: "Using condoms as a means of preventing AIDS can only lead to sexual promiscuity."" Source.

"In a statement at the end of their week-long conference in Pretoria, the bishops argued that the battle against HIV/Aids should be fought on moral grounds and said condoms helped spread the disease. (...) A leading Catholic newspaper in South Africa had called on the church to relax its blanket ban, saying married couples should be allowed to use condoms in cases where one spouse was HIV positive." (emphasis mine) Source.

Get discussing, people. This forum needs to be more political.

[SimeSublime]

More political the Puffins vs Lemurs? That is quite a staggering task. But the problem is, most(if not all)of Yahtzee's followers are fairly similar in socio-political views, killing most debates out of agreeance. As such, lets play a bit of Devil's Advocate.

If people were of the understanding that there was no way to stop aids, even with condoms, then they would be less inclined to have sex. If they are less inclined to have sex, then we cut down on not only the aids in the area, but also the overpopulation. With lower populations, then food and water will be less of a problem, allowing health and living conditions to increase. Perhaps the end justifies the means?

[Voodoo Dog]

Yet another piece of evidence that adds to my opinion that the catholic church BLOWS CHUNKS.

Many young women in Africa have to resort to prostitution to survive. It is the only way they can make any money whatsoever. They need contraception in order not to starve to death. Yes, that's a shitty situation to be in. But better to sell yourself than to die.

I knew the church told lies all the time, but I thought they could come up with better ones than this. For the mentally enfebled, I would like to point out the obvious flaw.

All condoms are full of holes=Millions of STDs and unwanted pregnancies=millions of lawsuits=all condom manufacturers out of business

Oh and by the way, I didn't notice this until I saw Rhubarbs spanking new avatar, but that new pope is a freaky looking mutha is he not? Reminds me of that guy from Hellraiser. Not Pinhead, the one with a coat hanger through his throat.

[Kirby]

Firstly: Hello rhubarb, been a while.

Secondly: Exactly on the education aspect. Back in the day with my sex ed classs, they fill us with shit like we were bags of manure. Abstenence Only causes more problems because they tell us that condoms break 50% of the time, birth control will give you cancer, kissing with tounge will give you aids.

Fortunatly my family were able to grow the balls to talk to me about sex before the guys at school had a chance to warp my fragile little mind, mind you most of it consited of "I find out you sleep with some floozy I will kill you!" but they did educate me.

Strait from the hores mouth, sex ed is messing the youth up. Teach your kids to wrap it up, because no one else will.

[Voodoo Dog]

About abstinence, I would just like to give the following quote from Oscar Wilde. (I think it was him, anyway.)

"Celibacy is the most unnatural of all perversions."

I think that says it all.

[Rhubarb]

If people were of the understanding that there was no way to stop aids, even with condoms, then they would be less inclined to have sex.  If they are less inclined to have sex, then we cut down on not only the aids in the area, but also the overpopulation.  With lower populations, then food and water will be less of a problem, allowing health and living conditions to increase.  Perhaps the end justifies the means?

What?? Noooo, there is no such thing as overpopulation! God wants us to have babies! We must all have lots and lots of babies, even if we have AIDS! If your baby is born with AIDS, then, umm, it's God's punishment for all those evil people who DO use condoms! Sime is a filthy heathen!

I appreciate that you're wilfully being an arse, as am I. But I want to clarify that simple sex education and condom distribution would do the job of AIDS prevention and overpopulation more effectively than DO NOT HAVE SEX BECAUSE IT IS EVIL BECAUSE I SAID SO AND JESUS WILL HATE YOU. The Church refuses to admit that teen pregnancy and AIDS are a problem, because that would be admitting that a) people have sex outside of marriage, and people besides homosexuals can get AIDS, and according to them, this would compromise their position. Plus too many people just don't want to believe that this stuff happens. The Church deliberately keeps people in the dark because it thrives on ignorance.

edit: Sime - Yeah, I hadn't noticed the discussion/debate in the Puffin-Lemur thread... it's a boring topic title and it's 18 pages for fuck's sake...

And just for Voodoo dog:

This post has been edited by Rhubarb: 22 April 2005 - 02:23 AM

[Voodoo Dog]

Fraid I'm forced to disagree with you Sime (you great big bag of chips, you) The fuckwads in the catholic church don't hate the sex drive because it leads to STDs. If this was the case they would allow masturbation. This is not the case. They frown on the spanking of the monkey(believe me, I know).

They use the carnal desires= thing in order to control people. I would go into this more here, but I already posted a stupidly long rant at the beginning of the "Is the catholic church a cult?" thread I started. I would put a link to it here, but I'm a moron, so I don't know how.

And on the popular view that AIDS is gods punishment on gay people
(AIDS=Arse Injected Death Sentence) I find it strange that god would allow so many innocent people to come down with it.

You are born to parents who have Aids, you have Aids.
You are raped by someone who has Aids, you have Aids.
You get a blood transfusion and somebody seriously fucked up the screening, you have Aids

I find it strange that an omnipotent being would use such a roundabout method of punishment. If every gay person on the planet suddenly curled up and died a slow painful death, I would consider that a good warning not to take up the noble art of bum-stuffing.

Plus, if AIDS is gods will, doesn't that make the scientists working night and day to find a cure the spawn of satan? How come the church aren't denouncing them?

And I would just like to point out, you have forever spoiled my enjoyment of the original Star Wars trilogy. I will no longer be able to watch it without thinking its supposed to be some kind of metaphor for the catholic church (Although that could be kind of interesting.) This also applies to the new films, but that doesn't matter, because they're fucking shit.

[J m HofMarN]

Letting priests teach about sex is like letting cops teach about drugs. They're both utterly absurd.

[Dr Lecter]

Letting priests teach about sex is like letting cops teach about drugs. They're both utterly absurd.

But doesn't that imply that cops don't take drugs and priests don't have sex? Both of which we know aren't always true.

[SimeSublime]

To be honest, I've never heard of AIDs being blamed on homosexuals, or as a punishment for being gay, etc(well, in anything thats set after the 70s).

On the case of masturbation and sex out of marriage, there are reasons for it. They belive sex is a gift given by God so that married couples can have children. Anything else, such as masturbation, conraception, homosexuality or sex out of wedlock, is an affront to sex's divine purpose. The catholic church isn't against such thigns to be mean, or because they want people to suffer disease. They hold their stance as they believe that the self control over beastial urges promoted by abstinece brings us away from anamlistic sides, and helps us embrace the divine.

[Rhubarb]

To be honest, I've never heard of AIDs being blamed on homosexuals, or as a punishment for being gay, etc(well, in anything thats set after the 70s).

Yeah... I wish I could say the same.

In response to the rest of your post... well, I don't believe that the Church does anything just 'to be mean'. I dig that Catholics believe that sex is a divine, babymaking power and that the means to make the babies should not be treated with disdain (here the chorus breaks into song... "Eeeevery sperm is saaacred''), and I can even dig that they discourage sex for pleasure on those grounds, even if it is one of our basic drives and instincts. Much weirder stuff has been taught in the name of faith. Normally it doesn't really bother me what Catholics tell each other to do. They wanna be part of that religion, then they stick to the rules. If they don't, then don't be Catholic.

The thing is, here we have schools refusing to teach children about sex, pregnancy, and STDs because they fear it will 'encourage promiscuity', Church figures publically condemning all homosexuals who don't abstain completely or force themselves into loveless marriages, and people infected with AIDS having unprotected sex. All of this would be awful enough if it were confined amongst Catholics, but this is also affecting people who have nothing to do with the Catholic faith. It's just far too big and powerful to be allowed to promote this sort of extremist thinking arbitrarily.

Also, now that he's graced us with his presence, I should probably credit Macgyver's Mullet for originally sparking my interest on this subject. Yay.

[Voodoo Dog]

They believe sex is a gift given by God so that married couples can have children. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is true, how come the church don't look down upon sexual relations between married couples who are infertile? Like those who are too old to concieve a child? If marriage is the only way to give in to lust without hellfire being the result, everyone is going to get married. And the only way you can do this is to be a member of the church(Don't talk to me about registry offices, in most peoples minds that doesn't count as a real marriage). Hence the only reason the church says casual sex is wrong is to control people. Either that or they're just fucking cunts who want to piss people off.

[Rhubarb]

Oh please.

[der Mudda]

I find it sad that the Catholic cardinals did not seize the opportunity to choose a pope for the 21st century. Benedict XVI seems extremely rigid in his views. Still no women (other than servant nuns), use of contraception, no re-distribution of the immense wealth of the church, particularly in Africa.

[Dr Lecter]

I find it sad that the Catholic cardinals did not seize the opportunity to choose a pope for the 21st century.  Benedict XVI seems extremely rigid in his views.    Still no women (other than servant nuns), use of contraception, no re-distribution of the immense wealth of the church, particularly in Africa.

Why would the Pope go do something stupid like that? For the good of man kind? What shit. You know you can send the Pope and E-mail to complain if you don't agree with his right wing attitude that makes Bush look Liberal.