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Anyone else noticed this?

#31 User is offline   Rhubarb Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:50 AM

Gnah. I just read VD's actual post, and goddamn, the man is a fool. I admit that they've been kinda different in the last few, and there were a few that were sorta dodgy... The Truth in particular was especially poor to the point where it seemed as though it was written by someone else entirely. But Nightwatch. Dude. One of my favourite books ever. And considering how much I read, that is one high compliment. Sam Vimes' character is honed to perfection, you get a deeper look into the class system and internal politics of Ankh Morpork, you get a whole new perspective and added dimensions for most of the characters that were active during the story (Reg Shoe and the Patrician, just to name a couple), and it's one of the best commentries on the mechanics of revolution that I've ever read.

I guess I must be the only person on the planet who liked Monstrous Regiment. The only problem I had with it was the zero reference to menstruation, which I would have thought might have been a bigger problem for a bunch of male impersonators than lack of groinal bulge and smooth chins.

And Robert Rankin is shite. I used to loooove his books until I read enough of them to realise that he's shit at plots and shit at character development, that random inanity stops being funny after a while, that he's sexist, and that although I'm sure it's a great 'running gag' to have Satan as the mystery villain every goddamn fucking time, it's tedious, and it kind of ruins the actual mystery. I liked Hollow Chocolate Bunnies, and I remember actually thinking to myself, 'Oh wow, cool, he's deviated from his usual formula, and this time the villain isn't Satan! Awesome'. Well. You know how that ended. I was so disgusted.
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#32 User is offline   Stalky Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE (Rhubarb @ Apr 26 2005, 02:50 AM)
But Nightwatch. Dude. One of my favourite books ever. And considering how much I read, that is one high compliment. Sam Vimes' character is honed to perfection, you get a deeper look into the class system and internal politics of Ankh Morpork, you get a whole new perspective and added dimensions for most of the characters that were active during the story (Reg Shoe and the Patrician, just to name a couple), and it's one of the best commentries on the mechanics of revolution that I've ever read.


My thoughts exactly smile.gif
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#33 User is offline   Rhubarb Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 03:50 AM

No one hates Nightwatch. They just wouldn't be human.

Oh, and about your comments on Jingo... well, if you think it's 'boring', try reading it again in light of some of the more recent events going on between say, the US/UK and Iraq. It's actually pretty fucking scary. I read that book happily enough a few years ago, but rereading it again last week... jesus...
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#34 User is offline   Voodoo Dog Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 06:02 AM

I actually quite liked Nightwatch but I had some problems with it. It was slightly more serious than before, but I soon got used to that. What annoyed me is that he never really used Carcer. The guy actually finds out young Sam is a younger version of Vimes. It would have been great to see Carcer trying to create a temporal paradox or something by killing the kid to increase the tension. I can't believe Pratchett didn't think of it. And the characters in the old watch aren't as memorable as the new watch, I had quite a lot of trouble distingushing them.

As regards lack of menstration in monsterous regiment, theres a very simple explanation for this. Pratchett is a man and like all men finds the subject incredibly embarrising to talk about. Although I do seem to remember him making the obvious "time of the month" gag as regards to Angua.

Another weakness Pratchett has is how he deals with romance. I like Angua and Carrot as individual characters, but they have absolutely no chemistry together. The best one so far was Vimes and Sybil and that completely evaporated after they got married. He seems to have the habit of casting male socially inept loners as his heroes, like that computer programer guy in good omens. I swear that if the "about the author" bit at the beginning of each book didn't say he has a wife and daughter, I would assume the man to be a 50 year old virgin.

But the nome trilogy, or "Bromeliad" trilogy, as it has apparently been redubbed, was great. It annoys me the critics write them off as childrens books. You name one other book suitable for children that is also a blistering satire on organised religion.

This post has been edited by Voodoo dog: 26 April 2005 - 06:26 AM

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#35 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 06:59 AM

Sadly, my library lacks a decent collection of Pratchet, so I haven't read very many. I should also point out that I don't belive in buying books for some strange reason. Actually, it's because I usually only read them once, and they're expensive. So that's two reasonable reasons.

Also, Robert Rankin is only good in small amounts. I quite liked "Nostradamus Ate My Hampster", but that may be because it was the first one I read and hadn't grown tired of the style. Chocolate Bunnies of the Apocolypse and the Townswomen Guild ones were interesting.

Oh, and the one with the coffin/mobile phone on the cover was interesting.

This post has been edited by SimeSublime: 26 April 2005 - 07:00 AM

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#36 User is offline   Stalky Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 10:31 AM

QUOTE (Rhubarb @ Apr 26 2005, 03:50 AM)
Oh, and about your comments on Jingo... well, if you think it's 'boring', try reading it again in light of some of the more recent events going on between say, the US/UK and Iraq. It's actually pretty fucking scary. I read that book happily enough a few years ago, but rereading it again last week... jesus...


I did actually read it a second time quite recently (I'm going through all the Discworld we own at the moment - I'm on the last one now, darn it). I know what you mean about the UK/USA + Iraq comparisons - and truthfully, I did find it more entertaining this time around. Still one of my least favourites though.

I forgot to mention earlier - of our collection, I think 'The Last Continent' is my favourite. It's absolutely hilarious - the gags about Rincewind's Marmite, and the extremely short donkey are brilliantly memorable.
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#37 User is offline   Rhubarb Icon

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 03:30 PM

VD - I rather like the understated romances in his books... he focuses more on the social than the sexual, and as someone who's damn sick of reading about passionate embraces and blow-by-blow accounts of hardcore fictional fucking, it was a nice change.

As for all the other points you made... I'm real glad Pratchett doesn't rely on you for ideas.
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#38 User is offline   Dark Comet Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 02:33 AM

Nightwatch does indeed kick righteous arse. It was particularly enjoyable reliving the 'bad old days' when Ankh Morpork wasn't all sweetness and light.

I actually enjoyed Going Postal immensly. A scathing look at how big businesses can ruin the greatest of technological triumphs. Also, it reconfirmed my belief that Lord Vetinarii is the best character in the entire series.

Jingo is actually one of my favourites. Worth it purely for the 'Boat' sections, with Nobby, Colon, Vetinarii and Leonard de Quirm under the sea. Genius. Especially the scrabble.

'I would have got ten points for that X...'
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#39 User is offline   Stalky Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 01:54 PM

Off topic - Rhubarb, please stop changing avatar. It means I have to read your username to know who's posting, rather than recognising by avatar.

'Coz, y'know, you have to do what I say.
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#40 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 03:34 PM

Yeah, and what's up with the Swastica?
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#41 User is offline   Rhubarb Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 03:51 PM

Eh, I was making fun of some white supremacist dude on the Debate forum. I'll change it if I get any complaints.

Like, real ones.
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#42 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:39 PM

Ah. Was it thrawn, or some other guy?
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#43 User is offline   SimeSublime Icon

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 03:47 AM

Apparantly there was a family over your way somewhere who was flying the swastica in their front yard, who claimed to have no knowege of WWII or Hitler.
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#44 User is offline   LsTr_Of_SmG Icon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE (Rhubarb @ Apr 26 2005, 02:50 AM)
I guess I must be the only person on the planet who liked Monstrous Regiment. The only problem I had with it was the zero reference to menstruation, which I would have thought might have been a bigger problem for a bunch of male impersonators than lack of groinal bulge and smooth chins.


I really liked Monstrous Regiment as well it had a lot more 'thinking mans' humour in it than usual and considering we are talking about Terry Pretchett thats one hell fo a lot of thinking thumbsup.gif .

QUOTE (Voodoo dog @ Apr 26 2005, 06:02 AM)
I actually quite liked Nightwatch but I had some problems with it.  It was slightly more serious than before, but I soon got used to that.  What annoyed me is that he never really used Carcer.  The guy actually finds out young Sam is a younger version of Vimes.  It would have been great to see Carcer trying to create a temporal paradox or something by killing the kid to increase the tension.  I can't believe Pratchett didn't think of it.  And the characters in the old watch aren't as memorable as the new watch, I had quite a lot of trouble distingushing them. 


Plus Pratchett probably did think of the temporal paradox thing but frankly you read any time travel books nowadays and they all have the same kind of thing ie tmeporal paradoxes. So he was actually avoiding the obvious idea sleep.gif
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#45 User is offline   Voodoo Dog Icon

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 03:31 PM

Now that I think about it, why did Pratchett use time travel at all in Night Watch? What was the fucking point? It served no purpose at all, except to make me disapointed about lack of paradox. He could just have had Vimes tell the story of his dark memories as a child to someone. Or the history of Ankh-Morpork could just be told without any kind of mention of present day Ankh-Morpork at all. I don't think it matters that much if the series is in chronological order or not, as long as it still makes sense. Quentin Tarintino frequently jumps out of order in his films, and I don't mind that. In fact I LOVE that.

Now that I'm on the subject, I'm pretty sure Small Gods took place hundreds of years before the present. In Carpe Juguluum, Brutha is kinda mentioned as a prophet from antiquity, and the crisis in the Omnian church seems to suggest that the Renovation has been going on for hundreds of years, causing the church to lose its way. Lu-tze was present in both Small Gods and Night Watch, but seeing how he's a history monk, I'm sure you'll all agree that his presence doesn't matter. Neither does the librarians, because you can use L-Space to travel through time as well as space. It aint Dibbler trying to flog rancid crap, its a distant relation. Probably his great great great great grandad or something. And at the end of Small Gods we jump forward in time a hundred years and there's no mention of the clack towers or any other recent development. (Yes I KNOW I'm being pedantic and nerdy. But its still a valid point!) Is there ANYTHING in Small Gods that proves its set in the present day? Let me know please.

Oh yeah, I was going to start discussing the discworld games, but I couldn't decide whether or not it was on-topic. Should we start do you think?

Rhubarb. Since you have the god-like power of moderator, could I ask you to give this thread the a subtitle along the lines of "VD spouts bollocks for about a page and then its Discworld" please? This is getting so good it would be a shame if some people didn't know it was here.
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