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Star Trek - is it fascist?

#1 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:37 PM

Think about it, traveling the galaxy, encountering new forms of life and telling them they're living all wrong and need to learn a thing or two... you ever get the feeling that the Federation folk were essentially fascists?
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#2 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

firstly, that contradicts the "first directive"
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#3 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

The Prime Directive, dude. Despite Kirk breaking it all the time, they actually had a mandate only to encounter these peoples for the Federation, but not to interfere. Damn Kirk for wanting to help victims of plague, and violence, and to offer his typically pro-humanoid take on slavery and oppression. Of course, since the Enterprise generally worked its one angle and then left the humanoids to fend for themselves (and inevitably fall to civil wars, if humanoid behaviour is as predictable in Star Trek land as everywhere else), I dare say Kirk was an optimist, and not a fascist.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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#4 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

ha hahahaha beat you dude!!!
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#5 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:47 PM

Hey what did I just say?

...or are you guys NOT sick of new nazi threads yet?
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#6 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 08:23 PM

this thread is not about nazis...
(i wish he hadn't used the term 'facist') but it's about a telivison show.
was starfleet pushing their ideals on people, and were they being bullies...?

no nazi comparisons made so far...
the term fasisct doean't always mean nazi!

so, yes hannibal... we are sick or nazi threads. even if they use the term 'fascist' instead...

this is not one of those...
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#7 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 08:28 PM

Alrightie then, yes, Star Trek is fascist.


Basically, the idea falls under the category of "good intentions" with the Prime Directive, but as seen in the show, all beings are judged on their advancement of civilization. The show is about officers onboard, and no enlisted men are considered to be worthy, i.e. the red shirt guys always die for the captain...
They wear nice shiny big black boots(they used to) and what's more, its not a racial facsim (unless white captains are mandatory in star trek) but an all inclusive left wing kind of fascism, where ALL BE ASSIMILATED. They basically travel around in the name of science armed to the teeth on board their warships, and "seek out new life and new civilzations" and for what purpose? TO suck them into the federation...nobody ever sees what happens to their resources after the Enterprise leaves...and after they join the federation...there are no religions of earth from the past present(Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, hinduism...nothing) I wonder if religious people aren't allowed to be Starfleet troops...

This post has been edited by Hannibal: 14 April 2005 - 08:34 PM

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#8 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:23 PM

What, if anything, isn't about fascism?

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I don't know about you but I have never advocated that homosexuals, for any reason, be cut out of their mother's womb and thrown into a bin.
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#9 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:28 PM

I don't know, but I really have to dig to make Star Trek look fascist.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#10 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:36 PM

post removed... idea better for parody...

This post has been edited by barend: 14 April 2005 - 09:38 PM

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#11 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 07:58 AM

Oh, God, not this again. Is Buffy the Vampire Slayer about fascism? Is Sesame Street about fascism? Is there any movie or TV programme in the entire world that isn't covertly bombarding us with insidious fascist propaganda? Funny that I actually study politics, and yet I can never discern this hidden fascism where Hannibal and certain others seem to see it (and yes, that includes Star Wars). Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that if you're actively looking for evidence of fascism, you're bound to find something that can be interpreted in this way?
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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#12 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 11:55 AM

Don't blame me, I only think Star Wars is fascist, well and Starship Troopers, Robocop, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Teletubbies...
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#13 User is offline   floppydisk Icon

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:43 PM

Sesame Street is indeed facist. Damn that Big Bird!
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#14 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:16 PM

After much thinking here on this subject...I believe the old Star Trek (william shatner) shows were particularly trying to be anti-fascist, and anti-racist, Shatner had the first televsion interracial kiss on screen, and many of the shows dealt with weak vs. strong issues, and racism. However the new shows strike me (new generation, etc) as being as perhaps a kind of "progressive" all-inclusive fascism, based on a kind of technofascism, but since I am not necessarily an expert nor fan of the new star trek shows, I wouldn't be credible in any argument. I will leave it as, the originals were not supposed to be fascist, but the new ones may be...


"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


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#15 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:28 PM

Yeah, Hannibal, I was going to bust in here about how "Left Wing" fascism soounds a bit silly, and that if anything STAR TREK was Roddenberry's attempt to push the country to the Left. But then you beat me to it. I agree of course with assessments of ROBOCOP (some fascist elements, but here and there a criticism fof the society it ogles over) and of course STARSHIP TROOPERS (overtly fascist). Not too sure what you mean by Shwarzenegger, apart from politically. Was T3 fascist? I am undecided.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
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