[snaithbert]

Okay so I um, "borrowed" the ROTS film score off the internet this weekend I've listened to it a few times.

While I think it's better than the last two, it's still not all that great. Certainly it can't touch the OT soundtracks.

My biggest complain is the action music, which is utterly unimpressive and instantly forgettable. Basically it's interchangable with the action music from the previous two films; just loud, bombastic marches with nothing memorable or exciting about them.

It could be argued that NO action music is ever memorable, but I don't think that's the case. I still get goosebumps listening to the music from Empire when the Falcon flies through that asteroid field. Yeah the action music isn't quite as memorable as the themes, but in the OT, the action cues are at least enjoyable and really pull you in, etc.

With the PT scores, the action music is dull and typical and nothing stands out. I've heard the scores for the first two PT films several times over the past 2 years and I doubt I could tell you which track comes from which movie (with certain exceptions of course). It's the same case with the ROTS score; there's nothing in here that stands out or is particularly memorable. Even if I spend the next 20 years listening to these scores (as I did the scores from the OT) I doubt they'll continue to grow on me. This time around, as with the films themselves, the scores just seem ininspired and phoned in.

Also the ROTS score contains a LOT of music from the OT, thrown in here and there. While I initially thought this was a good thing- now I'm not so sure. It's nice to hear the music I remember and love pop up now and then, but at the same time it's a sad reminder that the only reason I care about the new music- is because it contains some of the old music. Basically the OT music in the PT works the same way that the OT characters in the PT do. Initially it's fun, but after a while you realize that they just don't belong there, and they're only there to make something bad seem a little better. To make a bitter pill go down a bit easier, so to speak. I'm more forgiving about the music than I am the characters, because I can swallow a theme being played over a scene a LOT easier than I can Boba Fett showing up in Ep 2, etc. But still, the OT music in the PT serves as a sad reminder that these movies CAN'T stand on their own, musically. They need to go back to the OT well to keep people interested and after a while even that novelty wears off.

In any case, again I must say that ROTS is better than the previous 2 scores. But still- it's not all that great. In my opinion anyhow.

Anyone else heard it?

Got thoughts?

[Signum_Absentis]

No, you will have to supply us with it...

Come on you pirate hand the MP3s over or we're calling Lucas...

[snaithbert]

Well I dunno if I'm a pirate, because I do plan to buy this CD when it comes out.

But if listening to it beforehand makes me a pirate, then all I can says is "shiver me timbers."

And also a few random things about dead men's chests and bottles of rum, etc.

[Vwing]

I've heard most of it, a couple of the tracks I couldn't hear because the site was taken down before I download it.

And before I give my thoughts on it, let me just say that I completely disagree with you about the PT scores. I think they're the only things that have stayed true to the quality of the OT, and in some cases surpass that quality as Williams gains maturity and delves into the (supposed) darker nature of the prequels.

That being said, after listening to most of this soundtrack, I also disagree that it is the best of the prequels.

I'm not going to go into a thorough analysis right now, but let's just say that Episode I, in my opinion, had the perfect balance of brilliant Star Wars action music with touching themes, and that smattering of dark content to show us that all is not well. Anakin's theme, a light-hearted, beautiful, tragic theme, is unfortunately ignored throughout most of the rest of the prequels, with a brief playing of it after Anakin's dream in AOTC and a very, very brief, almost unnoticeable playing in ROTS. The action scenes are much better, with extremely high-octane music that gives us more tension that the action in AOTC.

However, while ROTS may not have a great balance, what it does, it does great. It focuses more on the dark, moody aspects of the third movie, and it's like nothing we've really heard before, even in ESB. Unfortunately, I can't go through it track-by-track, because when I DL'ed them my comp didn't give me their titles, so I'll give my full opinion when I buy the soundtrack.

It actually did give me names for 2 of them. One was A New Hope and End Credits, which is magnificent, giving us a powerful version of Leia's thene, a variation on Luke's theme, and ending with the Force theme. The end credits again feature Leia's Theme, the new Battle of the Heroes (which, while very good, is not as good as Duel of the Fates. However, there's one point where the Force theme is played against chorus that is magnficent, and another time when it goes into a darker version of the music used just before the first death star explodes), and as a great surprise, the original arragement of The Throne Room followed by a new arrangement of the Throne Room, and then into the end Star Wars music from ROTJ. It's a great track that really gave me goosebumps.

The other one was Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, which mostly plays as a combination of Battle of the Heroes, The Imperial March (especially noticeable as the music in ESB when Vader's hurling stuff at Luke near the round window), and the Force theme. It's a really good track, one of the better ones in the prequels.

But as I said, other than the great ANH and End Credits, the real highlights are the darker music, which is fantastic and dominates most of the soundtrack, and at times is very creepy and almost Un-Star Wars. When I get the soundtrack I'll talk about them individually.

All-in-all, this gives me a good feeling about Episode III. While not as enjoyable as Episode I, and not featuring a new theme as beautiful as the love theme from AOTC, it does give us a much more mature, darker look into the Star Wars universe, and should please everyone.

[DBrennan3333]

I have the entire soundtrack in MP3 so if anybody can tell me how to send it to you individually or post it for everybody I'd have no problem sharing it.

As far as my opinion of the music goes, I thought it was a little flat the first time I heard it but since then it has absolutely grown on me to the point where I think it's one of the most effective and profound scores that I can remember. It's really great.

[ernesttomlinson]

I agree that the prequel musical scores are inferior. I noticed that there was much more repetition than in the original movies. Now of course in the OT scores there was much repetition of themes and motifs but with variation. In the PT it seemed like whole pieces were repeated without any change.

I've listened to the albums for the OT scores many times. Every time I put one of those CDs in I listen all the way through. The Episode I score was the first time I began to select tracks from, as though it were a rock album with only a few good songs on it. It doesn't "flow".

[Despondent]

Well put. The Star Wars double album had a great variety of music if you knew where to look. But as hard to listen to as a cast album with the songs out of sequence.

By ESB there was all kind of growth, and onscreen offshoots were strongly supported by the music. The soundtrack song order doesn't matter so much because those scenes are burned into memory, and this film's music was less background, more part of the film IMO. JEDI: other than the Emperor's Chorus I don't remember much.
OK, the "let's wrap it up with soap-opera score" finale (and it's soon-to-be-forgotten predecessor.) I'd almost forgotten, Dumb and dumber: The Jabba's palace songs.

As Snaithbert mentioned, so many scenes are associated with the music in the OT.
The PT gave us the Maul music and the stupid celebration song with the blue ball.
As I've mentioned before, I liked the last minute of the credits, music wrap et al.

I'm sure there was a droid factory theme.

[snaithbert]

I think there's only two peices of music in the phantom menace that I can actually place and that's the lame celebration music and the music from when QuiGon and Obi Wan visit that crrrrazy undersea kingdom. Frankly that's the only track from the phantom menace that I actually like. It's mysterious and interesting and not just commonplace like the rest of the score.

Even the much celebrated "love theme" from episode 2 left me cold and couldn't hold a candle to Han Solo and Princess Leia's love theme. The love theme from the PT sounds like it was written by Liberace or Paul Mauriat or something; syrupy, sappy and over done.

Frankly, almost ALL the music from the PT sounds like it was written by a guy trying to rip off John William's music from the OT. It's bombastic and "exciting" (quotes very much intented) but not all that interesting or memorable. Certainly there are no themes that marching bands will be playing in 20 years or that MECO will be turning into disco LPs, etc.

I get depressed when I think of how long I waited for new Star Wars music, especially considering the results. Even Joel McNeely's music from "Shadows of the Empire" sounds more like "real" Star Wars music to me.

Lastly I must admit that there's more than one track I edit out when playing the scores to the OT films. The horrible musical number in Jabba's palace, as well as that really bad baroque background music from the palace. I guess it's just proof that even back then the music wasn't perfect (though it was a heck of a lot closer).

[Vwing]

Listen, I mean there's nothing I can say here other than I completely disagree. I mean, maybe you're just letting your thoughts about the movies they're associated with leak into your thoughts abou the scores. I dissassociate one from the other. There are a bunch of tracks that I love but, having not seen the movie in a long, long time, I don't associate it with anything other than good music. Even Duel of the Fates I just appreciate for what it is, not what it backed up, because what it backed up sucked a lot. The only time I associate something with the movie is Qui-Gon's Noble End, because that was a very sudden moment in the movie when you see it and the music builds.

The one part of the TPM soundtrack I agree with you on is the celebration music. It's kiddie and grating and annoying, and I always fast forward it. But it is only about 2 minutes of music, compared to about a great hour of music in the rest of the album.

I disagree with the love theme too. In fact, when comparing it to Leia and Han's love theme, you almost have to give Williams more credit. He took the Leia-Han theme, which is a basic love theme, powerful and for the most part happy, and created one that was similar, but gave a completely different tone. He created one that was a little more subdued, a bit more foreboding, perfectly representing a theme of forbidden love that Lucas tried to cover but couldn't. It's the Leia-Han theme adjusted for the darker setting of the prequels, with much more 1930s thrown in there. It's beautiful and brilliant.

And saying McNeely's music sounds more like Star Wars is ridiculous. I have that album too, and it's very good and very interesting, especially the track about Luke and Vader where he very interestingly uses the Force theme and the Imperial March, and the final track, which makes very good use of chorals and has a good ending. But it can't even compare with the prequel music.

The point of the prequels is that the music isn't bombastic and exciting, and I don't know where the hell you get that. I can understand many people complaining that it's not bombastic and exciting enough, that it is much more subdued (due in large part to Ben Burtt and George Lucas forgetting that many times hearing music affects you more than hearing sound effects), much more mature, much more complex than any music we heard in the originals. If anything, the originals are the bombastic music, but Williams has taken a much different direction with the prequels, opting to lower his volume in many instances and heighten his emotion. So again, I just have to completely disagree with your assessment of the prequel scores, other than to say, listen to them again, and try to just listen to the music instead of hearing the music and visualizing the scenes they accompanied.

Oh, also I'm listening to the Episode III tracks I have again, and it's really growing on me. Some of it is just haunting and beautiful.

[ernesttomlinson]

Listen, I mean there's nothing I can say here other than I completely disagree.  I mean, maybe you're just letting your thoughts about the movies they're associated with leak into your thoughts abou the scores.

At least in the case of Episode I that's just not true for me. The soundtrack had been released early, you may remember; I hadn't even seen the movie yet. And still I thought there was something lacking. As I said earlier I didn't think the album "flowed"; there were a few good tracks (my favourite is the fanfare that accompanies the droid army attack) but I never felt that the album was up to the left of those for the original three movies. That opinion has nothing to do with what I thought of the movie itself.

[Vwing]

Again like I said, I didn't say that was the reason, I said it could be the reason. I thought, except for a couple of things, that it actually flowed very well. The scenes on Tatooine progressed extremely well, and was showcase to some of the most emotional music on the album, and then the final tracks were extremely similar in tone. There were only a couple instances where I felt something didn't match or was out of place. Now I haven't listened to that 2 disc extended CD of TPM that has all the other music on it, but I heard that's really jumpy.

[Lord Aquaman]

Part of the reason the prequel music isn't as rousing or memorable, I feel, is that you just don't give much of a damn - assuming you give any damn at all - about any of these characters.

We cared about Luke when he was zooming down the Death Star trench with the Imperials on his back.

We cared about Han, Leia, Threepio and Chewie when they were being chased through the asteroid field.

Surprisingly, we even sort of care when Darth Vader picks up the Emperor and he starts getting electrocuted, and we hear his heavy labored breathing as Luke tries to drag him to the shuttle (which is very hard since Vader is twice Luke's size and outweighs him by about a hundred pounds).

Do we care about Queen Amidala/Padme when her planet gets invaded, forcing her to take it on the lamb and/or when she's stuck with the lanky, lecherous bastard leering at her like he's gonna rape her at any second? The answer: NO!

Do we care about Qui-Gon Jinn when he's about to meet his comeuppance at the hands of Darth Maul? The answer: NO!

Do we care about Anakin when he gets his right forearm cut off - or whenever he's on screen in general? The answer: NO!

This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 14 April 2005 - 03:34 PM

[DBrennan3333]

Hey, musical preference is an entirely subjective thing. But in my opinion, music is one particular arena in which I don't think that the PT is lacking at all. Perhaps the soundtracks haven't been QUITE as good as the original, but damn near.

I loved "Across the Stars," "Duel of the Fates," and now "Battle of the Heroes." And the ROTS soundtrack, in my opinion, is the first of the PT movies to have a rich soundtrack all the way through, rather than just through the title track.

Anyway, I've read lots of declarative statements like, but all you can really declare is your personal preference.

[snaithbert]

all you can really declare is your personal preference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said, DBrennan.

That is entirely true.

And anyhow I kind of enjoy reading opinions that differ from mine.

If everyone thought like I did- man would life be boring.

[Just your average movie goer]

Prequel music is dull, forgettable and so repetive that it sounds like the CD is stuck. That Duel of the Fates rubbish for instance, repeats this three-second loop over and over and over again. And the romantic theme for Episode II leaves me cold. It's the same thing... endless repetition and it's rather corny sounding.

I don't know why Vwing thinks this music is worthy of trial-listening, let alone praise, but I just want to say I disagree completely.