Chefelf.com Night Life: Reasoning out the prequels - Chefelf.com Night Life

Jump to content

Star Wars Fan Convention

Page 1 of 1

Reasoning out the prequels can't sleep, so...

#1 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 342
  • Joined: 28-September 04

Posted 12 April 2005 - 07:56 AM

Lots of other fans have put forth ideas about what really should have happened in the prequels and I figure that, having nothing better to do at 5 am, I'd try my hand at it. I want to try to reason the matter out

In forming these ideas I'm only going by the original Star Wars movies. I know there's a mass of other writing, some of which seems to be accepted as canonical, but I'm ignoring any evidence for what could have happened before the events of Star Wars that's not in the movies.

I should say also that I don't believe for a second that Lucas originally intended to make any other movies than Star Wars. When he throws in references to past events, e.g. the Clone Wars mentioned in SW, I'm fairly sure that he meant merely to give his story a bit of atmosphere and that he didn't know, or care, what the Clone Wars were really about. But let me work from these references anyway.

Start with the Empire. We know there used to be a Republic and that its last vestiges are eliminated in Star Wars. Lucas is obviously working from the Roman model here although he may have the Third Reich in mind as well with its vestigial Reichstag and its division into Gaue ruled by Gauleiters (cf. "the regional governors have direct control over their territories...")

Now republican (small 'r') governments often give way to autocracies because they're stricken with some sort of disaster that predisposes citizens to accept authoritarian rule. France's defeat in 1940, for example, allowed Laval and Weygand and the rest of them to kill the Third Republican and install Petain. Russia's collapse in World War I enabled the October revolution and the advent of Lenin. And, going back to the original model, it was the decades of civil strife in the Roman Republic (e.g. the Social War, Sulla's marching an army on Rome, &c.) that eventually allowed Octavian to destroy the Republic and install himself as dictator.

I suggest this, therefore: the Republic loses the Clone Wars or at least gets severely mauled. (What those Wars actually were are, for the moment, not really relevant to the discussion.) I further suggest that the man who becomes Emperor (I'm not going to call him Palpatine - that name is nowhere to be heard in any of the three movies) could have been a hero of the Wars or at least some sort of famous military figure who could credibly be accepted as a strong man to lead the Republic out of its crisis. (Again I'm thinking of Petain but also of General Franco and all the other military men who've set themselves up as dictators.)

And what were the Jedi like in the old days? I don't care one bit for Lucas's turning them into a sort of official body, with a school and elaborate rituals and so forth. However Obi-Wan was a general once and it appears to be known that other Jedi fought in the Clone Wars. (When Luke asks Obi-Wan whether he fought in the wars, he responds, "I was a Jedi Knight the same as your father." "Clone Wars" implies "Jedi were there.") Maybe the Jedi were all free agents; maybe they were a sort of semi-independent law enforcement, like the Texas Rangers used to be. Obi-Wan does call them "the guardians of peace and justice" but I don't think this necessarily implies that the Jedi had any official capacity. My inclination is to make them independent or nearly so, allied to the Republic but not a part of it; Obi-Wan was a general who happened to be a Jedi, not a general because he was a Jedi. (Another analogy comes to mind: the Dunedain fight with Gondor and Rohan in The Return of the King - the real one, that is - but are independent of those kingdoms.)

Anakin Skywalker was just another knight in the Wars. Well, not *just* another; we know that he was an excellent pilot. (Let's accept Obi-Wan's description of him as the best in the galaxy as a bit of friendly exaggeration.) But still, fairly unremarkable. If everyone knew that Anakin was the biggest villain in the galaxy there's no way that Luke wouldn't have picked up on this; Tatooine may be out of the way but it's still got a spaceport and a fair amount of commerce. Uncle Owen can get away with telling Luke that his father was a navigator on a spice freighter because the name Anakin Skywalker was little known probably to anyone but other Jedi.

Oh, and need I say that Anakin Skywalker never got to within a hundred light-years of Tatooine? No way in hell was he *born* there.

Eh, that's all I can think of at the moment.
0

#2 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

  • -
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,140
  • Joined: 10-April 04
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:00 AM

I don't know about that...

Obi Wan - "That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals... thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."
0

#3 User is offline   ernesttomlinson Icon

  • Level Boss
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Junior Members
  • Posts: 342
  • Joined: 28-September 04

Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:10 AM

Oops! Nice catch.

But then the problem of Vader's not knowing where his son is rears its head. It must not be the least bit obvious that Luke could be on Tatooine. Possibly if Anakin were from Tatooine but moved away long before he had children then he'd not assume that his son could be there. Or maybe Vader just didn't care until he meets Luke in battle at the end of Star Wars and then begins to sense what's up with this kid.
0

#4 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

  • -
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,140
  • Joined: 10-April 04
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:12 AM

If you're interested in this topic, I recommend checking out my thread "Unearthing the Fossil."

It covers this stuff in good detail and I think it's worth a look. I just dug it up for you.
0

#5 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 800
  • Joined: 11-February 04
  • Location:Minnesooota
  • Interests:I lose interest in more things each and every day as things grow more and more mediocre and substandard...
  • Country:United States

Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:50 AM

I think Vader ought not to have known that he had a son at all. I think he should believe that his child was dead. If he knew he had a living son, I would believe that he would do all that he could to gain him back.

So, Vader seems like someone who has truly lost it all.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
0

#6 User is offline   Helena Icon

  • Basher Extraordinaire
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,327
  • Joined: 01-June 04
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:Current age: 22<br /><br />Current occupation: Auditor<br /><br />Interests: Reading, computer games, music, and Star Wars (obviously).<br /><br />Talents: Can't act, can't dance, can sing a little.<br /><br />Loves: Terry Pratchett's 'Discworld' series.<br /><br />Hates: Harry Potter. Surely I can't be the only one?
  • Country:United Kingdom

Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE (CowboyCurtis @ Apr 12 2005, 02:50 PM)
I think Vader ought not to have known that he had a son at all.  I think he should believe that his child was dead.  If he knew he had a living son, I would believe that he would do all that he could to gain him back.

Same here. In my idea for the Prequels, Vader wouldn't even realise he had a son until some time after ANH.
QUOTE
The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
0

#7 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,976
  • Joined: 19-November 04
  • Location:Atlantis
  • Interests:Movies, comic books, some mythology... basically anything that's larger than life.
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 April 2005 - 06:59 PM

Star Wars has lost its reason. There is no longer any reason within Star Wars.
I am the Fisher King.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
0

#8 User is offline   Hannibal Icon

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Former Members
  • Posts: 1,013
  • Joined: 29-October 04
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:23 PM

Right. No reason left, only fan-rationalization.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)


Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
0

#9 User is offline   Mnesymone Icon

  • Champion
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,836
  • Joined: 08-April 04
  • Location:Somewhere near my collarbone
  • Interests:Food, books, movies, history, languages, religions (though I'm an atheist), miracles of nature and marvels of technology.<br /><br />Particularly: steak, the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Dark Ages in Europe, the 'created' languages, the mythologies of defunct European cultures, fish and cars.
  • Country:Australia

Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:14 AM

From some of the things Obi-Wan says, and quite a lot of what Owen and Beru say - actually Owen and Beru more so than Obi-Wan, I had always thought that Anakin lived on Tatooine - but I would never have said we should meet him as a nine-year-old slave brat.
I had pictured him as a son-of-the-soil (or sand, as the case may be) turned soldier - a fighter pilot in the Republic's navy (yes, they have a navy - they don't need a special act of parliament to get one!)
I would have expected that when Anakin's tour of duty finished, Obi-Wan - who would have been a Jedi Knight (not a Master) - the Jedi Knights being those Jedi dedicated to fighting the good fight, as distinct from healers or teachers or seers - though all can do some of the others tricks - would have come to Tatooine having sensed the force in Anakin and came specifically to recruit Anakin as a Jedi, knowing that in the Clone Wars they would need all the Jedi they could get.
The Clone Wars is not a silly internal coup, it should have been the remnants of the Sith propping up the clonemasters, a bunch of guys who fill out their armies and search for immortality by cloning themselves. The Sith should not be Jedi in black - 'it was well-trained in the Jedi arts' - rather an entirely different order, trained to use the Dark Side of the Force to further their own ends. They should also be FEWER yet STRONGER than the Jedi - because they can draw more sheer destructive power from the Dark Side than the Jedi can from the Light side. The rule of two - its crap. There should be as many as the Dark Lord can train and are willing to serve him - the Dark Knights of the Sith, led by an ancient, near-immortal man, who has drawn on the force to stretch his life many times beyond normal human life span - a relic of the Sith Wars of ancient times. That way the idea of 'Revenge of the Sith' isn't Darth Maul going "finally we will have (stupid long pause) revenge" with the idea that masters have handed this grudge on to their apprentices since the brotherhood was broken - rather ONE ACTUAL PERSON has been waiting for two thousand years to kill every last Jedi.
As part of his plan, he corrupts Palpatine, Palpatine shouldn't be the infallible guy in control, rather an opportunistic pawn.
There should be no Maul, no Dooku, Darth should not be the name for every Sith kicking around, no rule of two, no Trade Federation, no Mace Windu, no Luxurious Jedi Council, no Naboo, no Jar Jar, no Queen Amidala (Anakin will have a wife/lover at some point, but not a porcelain democratically elected Queen), no droid army, no Qui-Gon and no pod race.

Nothing currently in the prequels should be in the prequels.
Nothing that is not intuitive from the Star Wars trilogy should be there.
For all that the prequels come before the the Star Wars trilogy, the Star Wars trilogy came first in every real sense of the word. Therefore, if there's a continuity error, it should be fixed in the prequels, not in the original trilogy.
0

#10 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

  • Soothsayer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 800
  • Joined: 11-February 04
  • Location:Minnesooota
  • Interests:I lose interest in more things each and every day as things grow more and more mediocre and substandard...
  • Country:United States

Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:46 AM

From some of the things Obi-Wan says, and quite a lot of what Owen and Beru say - actually Owen and Beru more so than Obi-Wan, I had always thought that Anakin lived on Tatooine - but I would never have said we should meet him as a nine-year-old slave brat.


You're absolutely right. Even Obi-Wan's line:

"He didn't hold with your father's ideals..."

Indicates that Anakin was older when he left. How old are we when start to have "ideals?" I'd say anywhere from 15 to 18. He can't be TOO old.

I had pictured him as a son-of-the-soil (or sand, as the case may be) turned soldier - a fighter pilot in the Republic's navy (yes, they have a navy - they don't need a special act of parliament to get one!)

I guess my only thing with this is that serving in the Republic, wouldn't have a Jedi found him there. If Anakin had special skills, wouldn't have word filtered back a Jedi somewhere that there was this special soldier in the Navies?

The Clone Wars is not a silly internal coup, it should have been the remnants of the Sith propping up the clonemasters, a bunch of guys who fill out their armies and search for immortality by cloning themselves. The Sith should not be Jedi in black - 'it was well-trained in the Jedi arts' - rather an entirely different order, trained to use the Dark Side of the Force to further their own ends. They should also be FEWER yet STRONGER than the Jedi - because they can draw more sheer destructive power from the Dark Side than the Jedi can from the Light side. The rule of two - its crap. There should be as many as the Dark Lord can train and are willing to serve him - the Dark Knights of the Sith, led by an ancient, near-immortal man, who has drawn on the force to stretch his life many times beyond normal human life span - a relic of the Sith Wars of ancient times. That way the idea of 'Revenge of the Sith' isn't Darth Maul going "finally we will have (stupid long pause) revenge" with the idea that masters have handed this grudge on to their apprentices since the brotherhood was broken - rather ONE ACTUAL PERSON has been waiting for two thousand years to kill every last Jedi.
As part of his plan, he corrupts Palpatine, Palpatine shouldn't be the infallible guy in control, rather an opportunistic pawn.
There should be no Maul, no Dooku, Darth should not be the name for every Sith kicking around, no rule of two, no Trade Federation, no Mace Windu, no Luxurious Jedi Council, no Naboo, no Jar Jar, no Queen Amidala (Anakin will have a wife/lover at some point, but not a porcelain democratically elected Queen), no droid army, no Qui-Gon and no pod race.

Nothing currently in the prequels should be in the prequels.
Nothing that is not intuitive from the Star Wars trilogy should be there.
For all that the prequels come before the the Star Wars trilogy, the Star Wars trilogy came first in every real sense of the word. Therefore, if there's a continuity error, it should be fixed in the prequels, not in the original trilogy.


Damn straight!! And I totally agree with the Sith being trained different than the Jedi. Yeah, I disliked the Qui-Gon line about being trained like a Jedi. Wouldn't this mean that one would have to be a Jedi before they became a Sith? It should be analogous to two different martial art fighting styles (One is Karate and the other is Judo).

Damn, these prequels suck. Lucas sucks.
Flying Ferret

Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"

All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
0

#11 User is offline   Just your average movie goer Icon

  • -
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,140
  • Joined: 10-April 04
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Country:Nothing Selected

Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE
I guess my only thing with this is that serving in the Republic, wouldn't have a Jedi found him there. If Anakin had special skills, wouldn't have word filtered back a Jedi somewhere that there was this special soldier in the Navies?


I'm not sure how this is a problem, Cowboy. Word gets back to the Jedi that there's this gifted pilot and Obi Wan hears about it? How does that pose a problem exactly?

Anyway, I have to say I really like all of Mnesymone's ideas.
0

Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  • Decrease editor size
  • Increase editor size